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  1. #21
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    Kalil WILL make a big difference!

    Caine, I understand where you're coming from when you say that elite left tackles are overrated, but I think you should look at it in another perspective.

    Yes, an elite LT clearly doesn't automatically make a team into a Super Bowl contender, but that can be said about ALL positions in American football.

    Christian Ponder needs an elite OFFENSIVE LINE. And drafting Kalil was one hell of a good beginning. Last year, Ponder had a guard protecting his blind side, and he sucked. With Kalil it will be a whole different world for Ponder. He finally might relax more and feel more comfortable in the pocket when he has Kalil, who might be the best LT in the league if he delivers to his potentials, protecting him.

    I think the O-line will improve also because we have the ex-Colt ex-LT moved inside to his natural position, but losing Hutchinson definitely hurt though.

  2. #22
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    I have been reading he's been in the weight room A LOT. I don't know if you guys have seen this picture but he looks ripped.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouthVikesFan View Post
    You must have been sold on blackmon.. I wasnt. If a calvin johnson/ larry fitz type player was in the draft this year i would be all in to improve our WR but when you can take one position group and turn it from terrible to good I think you take it. Our OL was near the league worst and with kalil it got decent, plus he was the bpa. I dont think nobody thinks we need a LT to succeed but we need OL period and kalil happens to be the player.
    Wasn't sold on Blackmon...just don't believe that LT is the #1 priority. Think we missed the boat with this draft...again.

    Caine

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Wasn't sold on Blackmon...just don't believe that LT is the #1 priority. Think we missed the boat with this draft...again.

    Caine
    But, but, but we got 3 additional draft picks!! Haven't you heard? Spielman is a genius!

    (sarcasm off)

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  5. #25
    Caine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEY View Post
    Caine, I understand where you're coming from when you say that elite left tackles are overrated, but I think you should look at it in another perspective.

    Yes, an elite LT clearly doesn't automatically make a team into a Super Bowl contender, but that can be said about ALL positions in American football.

    Christian Ponder needs an elite OFFENSIVE LINE. And drafting Kalil was one hell of a good beginning. Last year, Ponder had a guard protecting his blind side, and he sucked. With Kalil it will be a whole different world for Ponder. He finally might relax more and feel more comfortable in the pocket when he has Kalil, who might be the best LT in the league if he delivers to his potentials, protecting him.

    I think the O-line will improve also because we have the ex-Colt ex-LT moved inside to his natural position, but losing Hutchinson definitely hurt though.
    Again, you're throwing out the same "what-if" elements that supported the original "great LT Need" theory...all of which don't FACTUALLY prove true.

    New England, New York (Giants), Green bay, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, etc.....these are the current power teams. The perennial play-off contenders. NONE of them have Elite Offensive lines. They have SOLID lines, but none of them are "ELITE".

    Roethlisburger was 3rd in sacks taken. Rodgers tied for 6th. Brady was 13th.

    What those QB's DO have is a combination of superior skill sets and RECEIVERS.

    The FACTS don't support the idea that Kalil will improve our offensive production in any meaningful way at al. He MIGHT buy Ponder an extra second or two...but he won't create receiving mis-matches, won't make routes be run better, won't get receivers open, etc.

    While I can't attest to Ponder's skill set - it may or may not be superior, we'll see - what we NEEDED was RECEIVERS who can get open, who can catch the ball, and who can make plays. Aside from Harvin, we don't have those. So, even if Kalil can keep Ponders blindside clear for 20 minutes....there won't be anyone to throw to anyway!!!!

    Fact is, we waited until 16 other WR's were off the board before we looked in that direction. SIXTEEN!!!! How deep do you think the WR position was?

    So we now face another season of an unproven QB and no receivers. Add to that our #1 weapon (Peterson) is questionable. What did we do to REALLY improve Ponder's chances?

    Nothing.

    I see another painful season ahead.

    Caine

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    The bottom line, for me, is that we needed WR's a HELL of a lot more than we needed an Elite LT. We wound up with the latest High School to NFL feel-good story...but not a lot of prospects.

    Fact is, had we loaded up on receivers, Ponder wouldn't have been getting killed any more than Aaron Rodgers is. And Rodgers got killed all the way to a Superbowl.

    Caine
    We did need good WR's & I'm not talking 4th rounders. However, had we drafted an elite WR with the first pick & not taken Kalil, it would be quite difficult for Ponder to hit his WR's while lying on his back, like our QB's did 50 times last year. Then there's the issue of Ponder being able to be within 5 yards of the WR down field without floating the ball, but that's an entirely different discussion.

    Face it, we needed to address both issues (ol & WR) & it was probably the right move to take Kalil first & then address the WR.

    If Spielman wanted to impress me, he would have traded up in the first with his 2nd pick to grab one of the top WR's after taking Kalil.

    Instead, he waited until the 4th round before taking a 5'10" WR & finally a 6'+WR, but not until his 6th pick. I guess he felt we were pretty much "set" after resigning Aromashodu & signing Simpson & Walters.
    Last edited by singersp; 05-20-2012 at 08:07 AM.

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post

    We have a crap coaching system, crap FO, and no WR talent outside of Harvin. Having Kalil, IMO, will NOT help Ponder one bit as regardless of who is at LT, he still has no one to throw to...unless our KAO II will consist of chip shots to TE's and RB's out of the backfield...in which case Kluwe better be working out hard.

    Caine
    And IMO, given the number of TE's they added this year, that's exactly the type of offense I believe they want to throw out there. However I feel there will, be less emphasis on throwing the ball to AD whose pass catching abilities aren't that great & more so on letting him pound it again if he can come back from the devastating injury 100%.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I'm not real high on Ponder. I don't think he showed us a whole lot last season....I also don't judge him too harshly because it was his Rookie year.

    This year, IMO, will show us the foundation he has. We should start getting glimpses of what he's capable of. The trick for Ponder will be to turn positive glimpses into consistent realities - something previous project QB's here have failed to do.

    Caine
    And after 4 starts this year, Ponder will have had as many starts in his first two years as a certain other "project" QB, so I'd expect you'd have seen enough games to adequately judge him. Certainly after 9 games this year (3 years worth of starts for the other QB) he'd have way more than enough starts & he was drafted #12 overall & not as a project QB, so I hope you'd expect "more" out of him.

    After all, how many starts does he need? OL, WR's, coaching & a poor FO have been a problem for years. We can't blame all of Ponder's problems on them.......can we?
    Last edited by singersp; 05-19-2012 at 10:19 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    And after 4 starts this year, Ponder will have had as many starts in his first two years as a certain other "project" QB, so I'd expect you'd have seen enough games to adequately judge him. Certainly after 9 games this year (3 years worth of starts for the other QB) he'd have way more than enough starts & he was drafted #12 overall & not as a project QB, so I hope you'd expect "more" out of him.

    After all, how many starts does he need?
    OL, WR's, coaching & a poor FO have been a problem for years. We can't blame all of Ponder's problems on them.......can we?

    He gets until the end of this year...If by the end of this year he doesn't look like quality starter material, then we need to be looking to draft a qb next year.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Again, you're throwing out the same "what-if" elements that supported the original "great LT Need" theory...all of which don't FACTUALLY prove true.

    New England, New York (Giants), Green bay, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, etc.....these are the current power teams. The perennial play-off contenders. NONE of them have Elite Offensive lines. They have SOLID lines, but none of them are "ELITE".

    Roethlisburger was 3rd in sacks taken. Rodgers tied for 6th. Brady was 13th.

    What those QB's DO have is a combination of superior skill sets and RECEIVERS.

    The FACTS don't support the idea that Kalil will improve our offensive production in any meaningful way at al. He MIGHT buy Ponder an extra second or two...but he won't create receiving mis-matches, won't make routes be run better, won't get receivers open, etc.

    While I can't attest to Ponder's skill set - it may or may not be superior, we'll see - what we NEEDED was RECEIVERS who can get open, who can catch the ball, and who can make plays. Aside from Harvin, we don't have those. So, even if Kalil can keep Ponders blindside clear for 20 minutes....there won't be anyone to throw to anyway!!!!

    Fact is, we waited until 16 other WR's were off the board before we looked in that direction. SIXTEEN!!!! How deep do you think the WR position was?

    So we now face another season of an unproven QB and no receivers. Add to that our #1 weapon (Peterson) is questionable. What did we do to REALLY improve Ponder's chances?

    Nothing.

    I see another painful season ahead.

    Caine

    Vikings were sacked 1 out of 10.4 attempts

    Steelers were sacked 1 out of 12.8 attempts

    Packers were sacked 1 out of 13.4 attempts

    Patriots were sacked 1 out of 19.1 attempts

    Giants were sacked 1 out of 21 attempts

    New Orleans were sacked 1 out of 27.5 attempts


    Looks like the two Super Bowl teams had "elite" OL to me. We are significantly worse then all of them. Kalil was the right pick.

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