C-Pep without Moss

**midgensa** · 10-05-2005, 04:12 AM

I notice a ton of people around here just spouting off about statistics and it is starting to get ridiculous how many times people are either misinformed or just flat lying to try and prove a point. You can find almost and stat you need on NFL.com. The most common arguement is how well Culpepper did or did not do without Moss, etc.

So here you go ...
Culpepper's career stats without Randy Moss are (and this counts two games Moss "played" in, but did not play more than two plays): 9 games, 200-299, 67%, 2,198 yards, 13 TD, 13 INT and a 84.83 Rating.

There ... and that counts this season and that is fact, Ill even update it every week so that people can quit spouting about how great or how bad he is without Moss and making up stats. As a matter of fact, he is pretty middle of the road right now without Moss. He is not bad or great ...

**fred3105** · 10-05-2005, 04:17 AM

That doesnt take into account that teams where still game planning for Randy Moss probably since he was listed as questionable/probable I think last year.

**midgensa** · 10-05-2005, 04:24 AM

"fred3105" wrote:

That doesnt take into account that teams where still game planning for Randy Moss probably since he was listed as questionable/probable I think last year.

There were only two games when they game-planned for him and he was not listed as out before the midway point of the week (Tenn. and NYGiants) and those are two of the slower games for C-Pep without Moss, as well as the Giants and Titans knew he was not a major factor Titans due to the fact there were rumors he would sit all week and Giants due to the fact he only played two or three plays against the Titans, but stats are stats are stats ... that simple.
And those are his stats without Moss, as simple as that.
By the way, the Green Bay game without Moss was one of the best for any QB in the last five years and that absolutely knew he would not play in that game ...

**michaelmazid** · 10-05-2005, 04:36 AM

the reciever doesn't make the QB. The QB makes the reciver or something like that. :scratch:

**fred3105** · 10-05-2005, 04:45 AM

Also look at the passing defense ranks:
26. Tennessee AVG 237.9ypg | DC 183yds 1TD
8. NY Giants AVG 189.4ypg | DC 231yds 1TD 2Ints
28. Indianapolis AVG 243.3ypg | DC169yds 1TD
25. Green Bay AVG 228ypg | DC 363yds 4TDs
20. Detroit AVG 219.6ypg | DC 233yds 2tds 1int

Above avg in 3 of 5 games even against bad passing defenses.

With Moss:
21. Dallas 220.1ypg | DC 242yds 5TDs
12. Philadelphia 201ypg | DC 343yds 1TD 1Int
15. Chicago 209ypg | DC 360yds 2TDs
24. Houston 226ypg | DC 396yds 5TDs
27. New Orleans 243ypg | DC 425yds 5TDs 2Ints
20. Jacksonville 204ypg | DC 235yds 1TD 1Int
15. Chicago 209ypg | DC 279yds 2TDs 3Int
8. Seattle 252ypg | DC 270yds 1TD
20. Detroit AVG 219.6ypg | DC 404yds 3Tds 1Int
25. Green Bay AVG 228ypg | DC 285yds 3Tds
20. Washington 204ypg | DC 299yds 2Tds

Above avg passing yards in every game against some good and some bad passing defenses.

These include this year:

Attempts per game with Moss: 31.83
Attempts per game without Moss: 33.22

Yards per game with Moss: 294.83
Completions per game without Moss: 244.22

**PurplePackerEater** · 10-05-2005, 05:15 AM

"midgensa" wrote:

I notice a ton of people around here just spouting off about statistics and it is starting to get ridiculous how many times people are either misinformed or just flat lying to try and prove a point. You can find almost and stat you need on NFL.com. The most common arguement is how well Culpepper did or did not do without Moss, etc.

So here you go ...
Culpepper's career stats without Randy Moss are (and this counts two games Moss "played" in, but did not play more than two plays): 9 games, 200-299, 67%, 2,198 yards, 13 TD, 13 INT and a 84.83 Rating.

There ... and that counts this season and that is fact, Ill even update it every week so that people can quit spouting about how great or how bad he is without Moss and making up stats. As a matter of fact, he is pretty middle of the road right now without Moss. He is not bad or great ...

I disagree. He's BAD.

THIS year, without defenses prepareing to cover Moss, Daunte's QB rating is (in fact) 67.2, almost dead last amongst starters. Including last years stats to help shadow this years stats is rediculous. Especially since this year he's supposed to be better anyway. More depth at WR, Kleinsasser's back, and Rosenthal's back.

And what about the running game stats with/without Moss? Where are those? Why stop at Daunte?

Moss changed the game, "get over it".

**Ltrey33** · 10-05-2005, 05:56 AM

"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

"midgensa" wrote:

I notice a ton of people around here just spouting off about statistics and it is starting to get ridiculous how many times people are either misinformed or just flat lying to try and prove a point. You can find almost and stat you need on NFL.com. The most common arguement is how well Culpepper did or did not do without Moss, etc.

So here you go ...
Culpepper's career stats without Randy Moss are (and this counts two games Moss "played" in, but did not play more than two plays): 9 games, 200-299, 67%, 2,198 yards, 13 TD, 13 INT and a 84.83 Rating.

There ... and that counts this season and that is fact, Ill even update it every week so that people can quit spouting about how great or how bad he is without Moss and making up stats. As a matter of fact, he is pretty middle of the road right now without Moss. He is not bad or great ...

I disagree. He's BAD.

THIS year, without defenses prepareing to cover Moss, Daunte's QB rating is (in fact) 67.2, almost dead last amongst starters. Including last years stats to help shadow this years stats is rediculous. Especially since this year he's supposed to be better anyway. More depth at WR, Kleinsasser's back, and Rosenthal's back.

And what about the running game stats with/without Moss? Where are those? Why stop at Daunte?

Moss changed the game, "get over it".

Nope, I won't get over it. I agree Moss changed the game, but keep in mind also that with Rosenthal and Sasser being back, Birk (who was the anchor of the entire O-line) is out and we're starting a rookie @ guard. Add onto that the loss of O-Smith and we are no healthier this year than we have been in past years. Culpepper is not BAD. No QB that put up those kind of #'s in previous years (Moss or no Moss) is BAD. It takes some serious skill to be an NFL QB regardless of who your recievers are. C-Pep will bounce back...it may take a bit, but he'll get better and will be back. Maybe not as high level as he was before, but he won't fold the tent and be out of the league in 2 years.

**ultravikingfan** · 10-05-2005, 05:58 AM

Oh look, another Moss thread! Who would've figured?

The debate lives on.

Play nice now.

**ItalianStallion** · 10-05-2005, 06:05 AM

I miss Birk as much as I miss Moss.

**PurplePackerEater** · 10-05-2005, 06:17 AM

"ltrey33" wrote:

"PurplePackerEater" wrote:

"midgensa" wrote:

I notice a ton of people around here just spouting off about statistics and it is starting to get ridiculous how many times people are either misinformed or just flat lying to try and prove a point. You can find almost and stat you need on NFL.com. The most common arguement is how well Culpepper did or did not do without Moss, etc.

So here you go ...
Culpepper's career stats without Randy Moss are (and this counts two games Moss "played" in, but did not play more than two plays): 9 games, 200-299, 67%, 2,198 yards, 13 TD, 13 INT and a 84.83 Rating.

There ... and that counts this season and that is fact, Ill even update it every week so that people can quit spouting about how great or how bad he is without Moss and making up stats. As a matter of fact, he is pretty middle of the road right now without Moss. He is not bad or great ...

I disagree. He's BAD.

THIS year, without defenses prepareing to cover Moss, Daunte's QB rating is (in fact) 67.2, almost dead last amongst starters. Including last years stats to help shadow this years stats is rediculous. Especially since this year he's supposed to be better anyway. More depth at WR, Kleinsasser's back, and Rosenthal's back.

And what about the running game stats with/without Moss? Where are those? Why stop at Daunte?

Moss changed the game, "get over it".

Nope, I won't get over it. I agree Moss changed the game, but keep in mind also that with Rosenthal and Sasser being back, Birk (who was the anchor of the entire O-line) is out and we're starting a rookie @ guard. Add onto that the loss of O-Smith and we are no healthier this year than we have been in past years. Culpepper is not BAD. No QB that put up those kind of #'s in previous years (Moss or no Moss) is BAD. It takes some serious skill to be an NFL QB regardless of who your recievers are. C-Pep will bounce back...it may take a bit, but he'll get better and will be back. Maybe not as high level as he was before, but he won't fold the tent and be out of the league in 2 years.

Birk is NOT the problem, he was out MOST of last year as well. And if Dixon was unreplaceable by the lineman we have now, then Tice is more of an idiot than I think he is.

Every NFL team is starting a "rookie" somewhere on their team, so don't feed me that crap.

And Smith, don't make me laugh. He was suspended 4 games last year and was part of a "running back by commitee".

What OTHER excuses do you have??