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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I just don't think the actual player that was picked with the Chiller here was that big of a contention. I think that Rick and the Chiller both agreed for the most part on what type of player the Chiller wanted.

    The scouts were then tasked to go find those players, they were racked and stacked for the coaches and possibly that racking and stacking was adjusted just before the draft but I think the whole staff had an agreement on that effort.

    The difference we saw last year might just be the slight difference that our new HC articulates in a better manner what type of player he wants to look at. It could also have been that the last draft had the right mix of guys that we needed and the ones they liked the best were still on the board. Perhaps during the Chiller years their number one guy in each round, or possibly even the number two guy as well was gone and they settled on the number 3 guy.

    As you said, lets see what happens in 2012, but I'm not concerned. I think that Spielman (and both staffs) have done a good job at getting talent out of the draft. The other wild card to be considered is maybe the other staff just couldn't coach the talent enough to get them to play at the next level and Leslies staff did.
    Good point, Maybe my friend just maybe!!

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    Good point, Maybe my friend just maybe!!
    I really really really want to see what happens with guys like:

    Audie - will he take the next step.
    Jasper - will he continue to evolve.
    Fusco - will he finally stabilize the line.
    Felton - Can you imagine him next year.
    Smitty - Same thing as Felton.
    Blanton - Might be our answer next to Smitty.
    Kalil, Rudy, Dean, Reed, Burton, Sherel,........

    A serious look at this team and the potential that is there really makes me excited to see how they all progress.

    Truth is, the only players I didn't see get better this year were Webb, Scwartz and some backups that didn't get to play like Berger.

    Guys like Chad, Sully, Rob, Everson, Ballard really started to come into their own. Heck, even ole Fred Evans played the best I've seen him play in years.

    My only issue is that most fans can't stand to watch guys like Jamarca or Mystral go through the growing pains of learning on the field. Even those two had their moments this year and should be better next year with improved DT play and coaching.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I really really really want to see what happens with guys like:

    Audie - will he take the next step.
    Jasper - will he continue to evolve.
    Fusco - will he finally stabilize the line.
    Felton - Can you imagine him next year.
    Smitty - Same thing as Felton.
    Blanton - Might be our answer next to Smitty.
    Kalil, Rudy, Dean, Reed, Burton, Sherel,........

    A serious look at this team and the potential that is there really makes me excited to see how they all progress.

    Truth is, the only players I didn't see get better this year were Webb, Scwartz and some backups that didn't get to play like Berger.

    Guys like Chad, Sully, Rob, Everson, Ballard really started to come into their own. Heck, even ole Fred Evans played the best I've seen him play in years.

    My only issue is that most fans can't stand to watch guys like Jamarca or Mystral go through the growing pains of learning on the field. Even those two had their moments this year and should be better next year with improved DT play and coaching.
    good post my friend. I am one of those guys though with our safeties. To say they played bad would be an understatement, I would say that pos. is the worst on the team, even worse than the WR pos. We need to draft one or hopefully Blanton can come on, I heard good things about him before he was injured. I think we need to upgrade that pos. and both players should be gone IMO. Oh yeah, MY FRIEND!!

    There s only two things stopping you - fear and common sense!! The Truth you CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    good post my friend. I am one of those guys though with our safeties. To say they played bad would be an understatement, I would say that pos. is the worst on the team, even worse than the WR pos. We need to draft one or hopefully Blanton can come on, I heard good things about him before he was injured. I think we need to upgrade that pos. and both players should be gone IMO. Oh yeah, MY FRIEND!!
    I don't remember any big plays given up this season by our Safties.
    They all played well. Could they have made some more plays on the ball? Yes but, they did their jobs. Now corner....that's a different story.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Just wanted to point out that building the theory of building through the draft only is a myth. To be a successful team, you have to build with balance. It takes a combination of hits in FA and drafting to be able to field a competitive team. Don't believe me, look at the two teams that are fighting for the Superbowl.
    B'more and 49ers. They drafted a solid OL but supplemented it with WRs from other teams.

    49ers
    Signed: Manningham, Moss, Ginn
    Drafted: Crabtree and Davis

    Look at their Defense
    Drafted Willis, Bowman
    Signed: Rodgers, Justin Smith

    B'More
    They could draft defensive talent for days but were always unable to draft a WR corps. What did they do? They went out and signed 2 of their top 3 WRs from other teams in Boldin, and Jones. There starting LT is our cast off as well as their starting Center. They also went out and signed the best FB to block for their RB.

    My point in all of this is that more and more people are falling into this spell in believing that the draft is the only way to build a team, when in fact it takes balance and luck to create a winner. Our FO seems to be trying to draft a team and supplement it with scraps when it takes making a major investment in FA here or there.
    Pretty sure that McKinnie doesn't start. Or see the field a whole hell of a lot ... so stretching it there a little.

    Did they supplement through FA ... yes ... everyone does.

    Did they build through the draft ... abso-fucking-lutely. You cannot look at the rosters and say anything different without looking silly.

    SF drafted Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, Navarro Bowman, Michael Crabtree, Vernon Davis, Colin Kaepernick, four-fifths of their STELLAR offensive line, Frank Gore, Dashon Goldson and Tarell Brown.

    Baltimore drafted Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, Torrey Smith, Dennis Pitta, three fifths of their offensive line, Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata, Ed Reed, Josh Bynes, Albert McClellan, Courtney Upshaw and Pernell McPhee.

    That is pretty much all of the major contributors on BOTH teams except for Rogers and Justin Smith, who were two gambles that paid off for the 49ers because they both had underperformed with their previous teams.

    You list Manningham, Moss and Ginn and Boldin and Jones as if they are huge deals, they simply are not. They are nice pieces, but they are normal free agent signings that could easily be replaced.

    The LARGE majority of players that make these team's tick came from the draft. And that is why they are where they are. The DRAFT is the key to making it to the big dance.

    Obviously a few little free agent signings here and there are important ... but to think "Building Through the Draft" is a myth and then try to use these two teams to explain that is a little silly.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by midgensa View Post
    Pretty sure that McKinnie doesn't start. Or see the field a whole hell of a lot ... so stretching it there a little.
    Actually he does... makes me believe that you are gonna say a lot of speculating if you don't even watch the teams.

    Quote Originally Posted by midgensa View Post
    Did they supplement through FA ... yes ... everyone does.

    Did they build through the draft ... abso-fucking-lutely. You cannot look at the rosters and say anything different without looking silly.
    What I said, since you didn't read was you need balance. Right now we don't have it. All of these teams jumped in and signed big name FAs

    SF drafted Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, Navarro Bowman, Michael Crabtree, Vernon Davis, Colin Kaepernick, four-fifths of their STELLAR offensive line, Frank Gore, Dashon Goldson and Tarell Brown. [/QUOTE]

    Actually 3/5ths of their line. Other guy is a FA. You got it. However, I already showed that 10 out of 22 starters are from FAs. No matter how you slight it, that's almost half their starters.

    Quote Originally Posted by midgensa View Post
    Baltimore drafted Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, Torrey Smith, Dennis Pitta, three fifths of their offnsive line, Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata, Ed Reed, Josh Bynes, Albert McClellan, Courtney Upshaw and Pernell McPhee.

    Quote Originally Posted by midgensa View Post
    That is pretty much all of the major contributors on BOTH teams except for Rogers and Justin Smith, who were two gambles that paid off for the 49ers because they both had underperformed with their previous teams.

    You list Manningham, Moss and Ginn and Boldin and Jones as if they are huge deals, they simply are not. They are nice pieces, but they are normal free agent signings that could easily be replaced.
    Smith didn't under perform on his team. Rodgers was great in coverage just couldn't catch the easy ones. Boldin is a nice piece? Oh ok. The guy only has more career catches than our WR combined combine.. You dismiss the contribution of Moss and Ginn to the team but mention some of the most asinine no name players to prove your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by midgensa View Post
    The LARGE majority of players that make these team's tick came from the draft. And that is why they are where they are. The DRAFT is the key to making it to the big dance.
    Well teams tend not to make FA signings every season. The draft 7 players every season. Its more likely to have more drafted players on the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by midgensa View Post
    Obviously a few little free agent signings here and there are important ... but to think "Building Through the Draft" is a myth and then try to use these two teams to explain that is a little silly.
    10 of 22 is a few? Oh ok. Where im from thats damn near half.

  7. #37
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    I have no idea where you are coming up with 10 of 22. I named 13 starters that they drafted (and yes, 4/5ths of their offensive line was drafted by them ... all but the center). So that leaves NINE at most. But hey in fact have 15 drafted starters. And acting like Justin Smith was not an underperformer in Cincinnati and then calling me out for "not watching teams" is ridiculous. He was a serious underperformer there as was Rogers here in the nation's capital. By the way ... Bryant McKinnie did start vs. Colts and the last couple of weeks ... but the were the FIRST STARTS THIS SEASON (and only because of injury. He is not a starter anymore) Bryant McKinnie Earns High Grades In First Start

    So, the 49ers have 15 starters they drafted (49ers.com | Depth Chart). The Ravens have 14 (Baltimore Ravens | Depth Chart). That is 29 of 44. And the point isn't that they have some free agents ... obviously everyone has those.

    The point is THEY ARE CLEARLY BUILT THROUGH THE DRAFT. The most important players they have on BOTH sides of the ball are players they DRAFTED. Both starting QBs, RBs, TEs and top WRs were DRAFTED.

    Ravens: 100% of their passing yards came from players THEY DRAFTED. 97% of their rushing yards came from players THEY DRAFTED. 63% of their receiving yards came from people THEY DRAFTED. 84% of their sacks came from players THEY DRAFTED. 54% of their defensive interceptions came from players THEY DRAFTED.

    49ers: 100% of their passing yards came from players THEY DRAFTED. 97% of their rushing yards came from players THEY DRAFTED. 75% of their receiving yards came from players THEY DRAFTED. 75% of their sacks came from players THEY DRAFTED. 79% of their defensive interceptions came from players THEY DRAFTED.

    I don't know how to spell it out for you anymore than that. These two teams built through the draft. They are completely the epitome of teams building through the draft. Sure, both teams have solid contributors that they got elsewhere (Birk, Boldin, Cary Williams, J. Smith, Rogers, Whitner, Moss) but to act like those guys are the reason these teams are here more than the players THEY DRAFTED that accounted for a large percentage of ALL production is ridiculous.

    Does not matter if 60% of the players starting on both teams are free agents if ALL THE PRODUCTION comes from players the team drafted. In this case though 29 of 44 starters were drafted according to the team's own website depth charts (66%).

    I am not going to say free agents are not important ... they clearly are ... but building through the draft certainly is not a myth as both these teams clearly did just that.
    Last edited by midgensa; 01-24-2013 at 11:37 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarkenton10 View Post
    Oversimplification don't ya think? While he has overseen the drafts there was a clustermuck as to who got to choose the player, remember the TOA. Spielman finally is the perosn who is in charge and NOW should be held accountable for the players that are drafted from here on out. 2006 - 2011 is all muddled and I say we push restart, some of the people responsible for our players are gone now.

    Let's see what he can do from 2012 and on. So far so good, another draft like last yaer and we will be considered contenders. Very smart moves from last year were moving up to get Smith, great player, very instinctive, reminds me a little of Joey Browner. Great pick with Walsh, Robinson was a good pick but LaVonte David was sitting there, I think that would have been a better pick for us. I liked the Cole pick also, I really want to see him this preseason, I hope there is an open competition for the LBs positions.
    No, it's not oversimplification at all. I'm not pointing the finger at Spielman, I'm stating that we've been rebuilding this team since 2006 when Childress got here (which Spielman was a part of in it's entirety except for the 2006) which contradicts what many here believe that we only 1st started rebuilding last year after Spielman was made GM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post

    The difference we saw last year might just be the slight difference that our new HC articulates in a better manner what type of player he wants to look at. It could also have been that the last draft had the right mix of guys that we needed and the ones they liked the best were still on the board. Perhaps during the Chiller years their number one guy in each round, or possibly even the number two guy as well was gone and they settled on the number 3 guy.
    Or part of the difference might be we were essentially picking 3rd in every round instead of the usual mid to late round picks.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post

    My only issue is that most fans can't stand to watch guys like Jamarca or Mystral go through the growing pains of learning on the field. Even those two had their moments this year and should be better next year with improved DT play and coaching.
    Snicker! Yet you were all over Guion's young ass early in the season.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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