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  1. #1
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Building through the draft a myth

    Just wanted to point out that building the theory of building through the draft only is a myth. To be a successful team, you have to build with balance. It takes a combination of hits in FA and drafting to be able to field a competitive team. Don't believe me, look at the two teams that are fighting for the Superbowl.
    B'more and 49ers. They drafted a solid OL but supplemented it with WRs from other teams.

    49ers
    Signed: Manningham, Moss, Ginn
    Drafted: Crabtree and Davis

    Look at their Defense
    Drafted Willis, Bowman
    Signed: Rodgers, Justin Smith

    B'More
    They could draft defensive talent for days but were always unable to draft a WR corps. What did they do? They went out and signed 2 of their top 3 WRs from other teams in Boldin, and Jones. There starting LT is our cast off as well as their starting Center. They also went out and signed the best FB to block for their RB.

    My point in all of this is that more and more people are falling into this spell in believing that the draft is the only way to build a team, when in fact it takes balance and luck to create a winner. Our FO seems to be trying to draft a team and supplement it with scraps when it takes making a major investment in FA here or there.

  2. #2
    drakkar is offline Rookie
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    I think you essentially build thru the draft. The core of both those teams was built thru the draft. they just finished the project thru FA. The Jets & Redskins over the years have tried to build thru FA and it never worked. Skins are set up for the future now that Shanny changed that culture and the Jets are one of the worst teams in the NFL and stuck there for a while.

  3. #3
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drakkar View Post
    I think you essentially build thru the draft. The core of both those teams was built thru the draft. they just finished the project thru FA. The Jets & Redskins over the years have tried to build thru FA and it never worked. Skins are set up for the future now that Shanny changed that culture and the Jets are one of the worst teams in the NFL and stuck there for a while.
    What the skins did in the late 1990's was abysmal and not advisable. I still believe it takes balance. I don't think the core of those teams were built thru the draft. It seems like it's about half and half. If you build through the draft...by the time your stars become stars, their contracts are up and you end up losing most of your best players.

    Examine any team and you see a great deal of starters that were signed and not drafted.
    It's nothing different than we did during our run in 2009. We had about 1 key starter on every level that we did not draft

    Allen, Leber, Winfield is no different than Smith, Brooks, Rogers

  4. #4
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Just wanted to point out that building the theory of building through the draft only is a myth. To be a successful team, you have to build with balance. It takes a combination of hits in FA and drafting to be able to field a competitive team. Don't believe me, look at the two teams that are fighting for the Superbowl.
    B'more and 49ers. They drafted a solid OL but supplemented it with WRs from other teams.

    49ers
    Signed: Manningham, Moss, Ginn
    Drafted: Crabtree and Davis

    Look at their Defense
    Drafted Willis, Bowman
    Signed: Rodgers, Justin Smith

    B'More
    They could draft defensive talent for days but were always unable to draft a WR corps. What did they do? They went out and signed 2 of their top 3 WRs from other teams in Boldin, and Jones. There starting LT is our cast off as well as their starting Center. They also went out and signed the best FB to block for their RB.

    My point in all of this is that more and more people are falling into this spell in believing that the draft is the only way to build a team, when in fact it takes balance and luck to create a winner. Our FO seems to be trying to draft a team and supplement it with scraps when it takes making a major investment in FA here or there.
    B.S. The two most important positions on baltimore's OL (C and LT) they got directly from the Vikings. That is where the whole "we need to draft Kalil because he will protect the QB's blindside and give the WR's time to run their routes" falls apart. We got rid of 2 guys that many thought were useless or done for and replaced them with 2 guys that are supposedly top 5 in the league and guess who is in the SB? And the WR we traded away is playing in his second SB with 2 different teams while we have been to zero.

    The Ravens drafted their best WR and the niners drafted Crabtree very high in the draft and he has been huge for the team. Manningham isn't even playing for the niners right now and for Baltimore, they drafted their best WR.

    The difference between the teams in the SB and those who are always average is the FO and coaching staff and how they deal with the players and what they get out of them.

  5. #5
    kevoncox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    B.S. The two most important positions on baltimore's OL (C and LT) they got directly from the Vikings. That is where the whole "we need to draft Kalil because he will protect the QB's blindside and give the WR's time to run their routes" falls apart. We got rid of 2 guys that many thought were useless or done for and replaced them with 2 guys that are supposedly top 5 in the league and guess who is in the SB? And the WR we traded away is playing in his second SB with 2 different teams while we have been to zero.

    The Ravens drafted their best WR and the niners drafted Crabtree very high in the draft and he has been huge for the team. Manningham isn't even playing for the niners right now and for Baltimore, they drafted their best WR.

    The difference between the teams in the SB and those who are always average is the FO and coaching staff and how they deal with the players and what they get out of them.
    Actually, at that point I was talking about San Fran.
    Also, the Raven's best WR is not Smith, its Boldin. He does the grunt work while smith goes deep and looks good. However, game on line, Flacco goes to Boldin.
    You can't say that adding Khalil didn't make us a better team. Our RB just set career marks and our QB, that cannot throw actual had time to throw. If C. Johnson was still playing LT none of that would happen. We have 3 great WRs available in FA this year. What great LT are going to be free agents? Jake Long? and they will franchise him unlike Welker, Bowe and Jennings.
    Last edited by kevoncox; 01-21-2013 at 09:43 AM.

  6. #6
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    With the salary cap where it is and not going up like it was, you kind of have to focus on the draft. It's the only way to get talented players on reasonable contracts. No matter how bad some fans want to, we just cannot sign the biggest named/highest priced Free Agent at whatever our biggest need is every year. There just aren't enough dollars to go around.

    We're looking at roughly 12.5 million in cap space, but we're also looking at 10 of our own guys set to be free agents and several of them are starters: Felton, Loadholt, Brinkley, Henderson, Sanford etc. And then there's Harvin who is expecting a big pay day. I don't see that we have much choice in FA this year because there's not going to be much room left to work with after we tie up some of our own loose ends.

    Besides, all three of those "top WRs" are most likely going to be way overpaid by a team with a better QB throwing them the ball than what we've been showing. Do you think Jennings or Wallace are going to be stoked to go from Rodgers or Big Ben to Ponder!??? And with Reid in KC, I've got a good guess Bowe stays put. If we do bring in one of those guys for an interview, it'll likely just be raising the contract they sign with somebody else.

    Spielman came out of last year looking pretty freaking smart, but he did have the 3rd pick in each round to work with. Won't be nearly as easy swinging 20 picks later. But we can hope to come up with 4 or 5 starters in the first 4 rounds, can't we?

    It's going to be an interesting offseason...just to see what happens with perhaps a Harvin or Allen trade, and/or whether Ole Bizzdealski can work something out with guys like Winny and Allen to maybe extend them and spread out the cap hits to make room for some depth upgrades elsewhere.

    These guys really got their work cut out for them, cuz 10-6 raised expectations for next year by a shit load, and we've still got plenty of holes that need plugging...specially if we don't keep a bunch of our own FAs!
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  7. #7
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Actually, at that point I was talking about San Fran.
    Also, the Raven's best WR is not Smith, its Boldin. He does the grunt work while smith goes deep and looks good. However, game on line, Flacco goes to Boldin.
    Who did he go to when the game was on the line against Denver?



    You can't say that adding Khalil didn't make us a better team.
    What I said was we didn't have to get rid of Birk and McKinney to get an OL that could get us to the SB and that was just backed up yesterday. Did he improve the team over having no LT? Sure. But if we would have kept McKinney and Birk and spent the Sullivan and Kalil picks on WR's or DB's our team would have been better too.



    Our RB just set career marks and our QB, that cannot throw actual had time to throw. If C. Johnson was still playing LT none of that would happen.
    Well, that wasn't only because of Kalil. A large number of his yards went away from him and he could have had just as many with Birk and Mckinney on the OL and we could have used the picks we used to replace them on WR's and other players


    We have 3 great WRs available in FA this year. What great LT are going to be free agents? Jake Long? and they will franchise him unlike Welker, Bowe and Jennings.
    And you are willing to pay a big name WR in FA when we are already having cap troubles? Nice.

  8. #8
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    I've been saying for quite awhile that the "Elite LT" line is complete BS. The only reason we can name Baltimore's LT is because we cut his fat, over-hyped ass.

    Balance in building a team is essential, but the KEY is to not close doors or ignore opportunities.

    Example: Randy Moss - Despite what some here have trumpeted (Marrdro), Randy still had gas in the tank. in fact, he was about as productive as many of OUR receivers, despite playing in only 9 games. Had we been open to the idea of bringing Randy back, we would ahve had a veteran player in the position who can actually get open and catch (Something our guys can't do). But, we didn't.

    Now, is Randy the reason SF is in the Superbowl? No. But his signing is an indication of why they're there. they saw an opportunity,and took it.

    We don't do that.

    If we want to be successful, we need to start.

    Caine

  9. #9
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    Good points by all in this thread. I will add my useless 2c. I don't think anyone believes you can build an entire team through the draft only. The only way to stay successful, however is to draft successfully. I like the way Spielman handled it this past offseason. We had soooooo many needs, it needed to start with the draft. We were not in a good cap position to buy a team, and that doesn't work well anyway. No one,(including our front office,IMO) thought we were going to make the huge strides this year that we did. In hindsight, we could have gone after a top line WR, but it did not appear after last season that that would be the only thing keeping us from a championship. There did not seem to be a reason to go in that direction until we had filled out the core of our team first. Little did we know that we would be one of the better teams in the league this year. Now that we know where we stand, a good draft, and whichever free agents we have the ability to sign, can be the course of action. Keeping some of our own will also hinder what we will be able to do in free agency. All in all, I like the direction we are headed, and hopefully, we continue to improve.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  10. #10
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Just wanted to point out that building the theory of building through the draft only is a myth. To be a successful team, you have to build with balance. It takes a combination of hits in FA and drafting to be able to field a competitive team. Don't believe me, look at the two teams that are fighting for the Superbowl.
    B'more and 49ers. They drafted a solid OL but supplemented it with WRs from other teams.

    49ers
    Signed: Manningham, Moss, Ginn
    Drafted: Crabtree and Davis

    Look at their Defense
    Drafted Willis, Bowman
    Signed: Rodgers, Justin Smith
    Your forgetting a few big ones. Drafted Willis, drafted bowman, drafted kap,their team is mainly built through the draft.

    B'More
    They could draft defensive talent for days but were always unable to draft a WR corps. What did they do? They went out and signed 2 of their top 3 WRs from other teams in Boldin, and Jones. There starting LT is our cast off as well as their starting Center. They also went out and signed the best FB to block for their RB.

    My point in all of this is that more and more people are falling into this spell in believing that the draft is the only way to build a team, when in fact it takes balance and luck to create a winner. Our FO seems to be trying to draft a team and supplement it with scraps when it takes making a major investment in FA here or there.[/QUOTE]

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