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  1. #11
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    Re: Brad Doesnt Deserve to play in the nfl

    "HornedHat" wrote:
    Dang, Douginc, did you REALLY have T-Jack pegged before the draft? That is impressive. It was a complete surprize to me. I nominate you for the scouting department. What did you think about Ryan Cook?
    While we're on the topic...

    Andrae Allison from ECU will be the biggest sleeper in this year's draft/

  2. #12
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    Re: Brad Doesnt Deserve to play in the nfl

    "HornedHat" wrote:
    Dang, Douginc, did you REALLY have T-Jack pegged before the draft? That is impressive. It was a complete surprize to me. I nominate you for the scouting department. What did you think about Ryan Cook?
    I swear I had him written down before the draft -- Ron "Jaws" Jaworski wrote very highly about him on NFL.com, and that's where I first heard his name.
    So, I had to check the boy out.
    T-Jack's intelligence on the field was very impressive.
    "Jaws" later said, right before the draft, that Tarvaris could very well be as good as Cutler, Leinart, or Young in the draft, and be picked up much later.

    Now Ryan Cook, I was all psyched before our 2nd round pick, and I thought FOR SURE that we would take LB Abdul Hodge out of Iowa, and then RYAN COOK popped up on the screen.
    I, along with 99.999% of all Vikes fans went, "WHO???"
    How is Ryan Cook doing, anyway?
    Anyone know?
    I mean, in a year or two, no way he could be worse than Arvis Hicks.
    Not that Hicks is horrendous, just that there is much room for improvement.

    But I guess Abdul isn't doing too hot in Green Bay, he's not starting, I know that.
    I thought the Pack might have a phenomenal LB corp in the future having AJ Hawk next to Abdul Hodge.

  3. #13
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Brad Doesnt Deserve to play in the nfl

    "douginc" wrote:
    I feel the frustration as well, trust me.
    Things around my house get thrown during each Sunday's game due to poor offense.
    But I agreed with what the Star Tribune said about a week back.
    Many people who are calling for Brad Johnson to be dumped on the sidelines are really asking for a change in offensive output, and they believe just changing the QB will solve everything.
    Most logical people know it won't.

    Any time a team is really bad or really good, it's always for a multitude of reasons.
    Indianapolis isn't really good JUST because of Peyton Manning; it's also his receiving corps, terrific O-line, and great play calling.
    The opposite is true for our passing game struggles; bad O-line play combined with a set of receivers that our QB undoubtedly has concerns on whether or not they'll catch what he throws.

    I agree, there have been times where Brad has seemed lost (last game I saw a few times where he locked onto a receiver, his first route choice, and threw the ball into tight coverage without even checking other routes) but honestly, I believe there will be a resurgence of his ability this year.
    Perhaps the coaches need more time to find better route types for the receivers, such as possibly more short slants for Troy Williamson, or even plugging in fresh receivers like Bethel or new guy on the block Jason Carter.
    Brad Johnson has been in the league too long, and has too good of numbers, to not know what he is doing.

    Plus, I love Tarvaris, so it isn't "QB bias" for my opinion.
    I made a checklist of the players I'd love to see the Vikings draft before the draft started.
    The only QB on my list, yep, Tarvaris.
    I checked the footage on every QB in the draft, and he stood out for the huge reason of poise in the pocket plus his ability to not stare at the receivers, but instead read the safety coverage.
    That's impressive for a kid straight out of college.
    But undoubtedly, I would rather see him on the sidelines.
    Why?
    Ask San Diego about Phillip Rivers.
    He sat for two straight years behind Drew Brees, and now he's a rather impressive starting QB.
    He even said that he greatly benefited from not being thrown to the wolves for two years, and instead could start when he felt prepared.
    Why not, it worked last year with switching brad in, 7-2 as starter after a horible start. Changing QB's might work. There's not to much wrong with the defense and specail teams maybe a QB change on offense would boost team moral and spirt. Maybe a run like last year.

    Good then get a new QB in there who has no memory of them dropping his passes. Fresh start.

    Those only worked last year because teams where playing us diferently then. Here lately its been 9 guys in the box take the short game away and make them beat you with the deep ball. Quick slants will do us wonders when he have respect for the deep ball.

    Some QB's are different and if he's as good as you say he is he should fit right in, cause thats everything we are missing. I don't see what the big wait is for, there have been plenty of young rookie QB's as of late. Philip Rivers is definitly benifiting from LT's massive season, that'll take the pressure off the QB. I put Tavaris in a Charger uniform and have just as much faith in my offense. Tavaris, LT, Gates, there oline, McCardel. Nasty. If we play Tavaris and loose, oh well kid will rebound, he's tough. His offseason workouts are proof that he's mentaly focused.

  4. #14
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    Re: Brad Doesnt Deserve to play in the nfl

    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:
    "HornedHat" wrote:
    Dang, Douginc, did you REALLY have T-Jack pegged before the draft? That is impressive. It was a complete surprize to me. I nominate you for the scouting department. What did you think about Ryan Cook?
    While we're on the topic...

    Andrae Allison from ECU will be the biggest sleeper in this year's draft/
    Who is he and what position does he play?
    I'm just guessing he might be a WR, since that's what the Vikes desperately need.
    I'm a draft freak, and obsess on learning all I can about players beforehand, so anything you could tell about him I'd love to hear.
    What makes him great?
    Speed, hands, route running, vision?
    We NEED an elite WR playmaker on this team desperately.

    I actually kind of like our Gophers boy Logan Payne as another possible WR option.
    ONLY because he has terrific hands, a seemingly natural ability to get open, and he'll quite possibly go undrafted since he doesn't have great numbers.
    My family purchases Gophers season tickets every year (I have a handicapped brother and sister I take to each game and they love football and marching bands), and this year has been a complete snore fest.
    The only thing keeping me awake is seeing how Logan and Spaeth do on the field.
    But Cupito isn't a great QB and we're not much of a passing offense anyway.
    So, Logan could be picked up after the draft and be a more than adequate 4th or 5th receiver, or be a practice squad guy.

  5. #15
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    Re: Brad Doesnt Deserve to play in the nfl

    "VikingsTw" wrote:
    "douginc" wrote:
    I feel the frustration as well, trust me.
    Things around my house get thrown during each Sunday's game due to poor offense.
    But I agreed with what the Star Tribune said about a week back.
    Many people who are calling for Brad Johnson to be dumped on the sidelines are really asking for a change in offensive output, and they believe just changing the QB will solve everything.
    Most logical people know it won't.

    Any time a team is really bad or really good, it's always for a multitude of reasons.
    Indianapolis isn't really good JUST because of Peyton Manning; it's also his receiving corps, terrific O-line, and great play calling.
    The opposite is true for our passing game struggles; bad O-line play combined with a set of receivers that our QB undoubtedly has concerns on whether or not they'll catch what he throws.

    I agree, there have been times where Brad has seemed lost (last game I saw a few times where he locked onto a receiver, his first route choice, and threw the ball into tight coverage without even checking other routes) but honestly, I believe there will be a resurgence of his ability this year.
    Perhaps the coaches need more time to find better route types for the receivers, such as possibly more short slants for Troy Williamson, or even plugging in fresh receivers like Bethel or new guy on the block Jason Carter.
    Brad Johnson has been in the league too long, and has too good of numbers, to not know what he is doing.

    Plus, I love Tarvaris, so it isn't "QB bias" for my opinion.
    I made a checklist of the players I'd love to see the Vikings draft before the draft started.
    The only QB on my list, yep, Tarvaris.
    I checked the footage on every QB in the draft, and he stood out for the huge reason of poise in the pocket plus his ability to not stare at the receivers, but instead read the safety coverage.
    That's impressive for a kid straight out of college.
    But undoubtedly, I would rather see him on the sidelines.
    Why?
    Ask San Diego about Phillip Rivers.
    He sat for two straight years behind Drew Brees, and now he's a rather impressive starting QB.
    He even said that he greatly benefited from not being thrown to the wolves for two years, and instead could start when he felt prepared.
    Why not, it worked last year with switching brad in, 7-2 as starter after a horible start. Changing QB's might work. There's not to much wrong with the defense and specail teams maybe a QB change on offense would boost team moral and spirt. Maybe a run like last year.

    Good then get a new QB in there who has no memory of them dropping his passes. Fresh start.

    Those only worked last year because teams where playing us diferently then. Here lately its been 9 guys in the box take the short game away and make them beat you with the deep ball. Quick slants will do us wonders when he have respect for the deep ball.

    Some QB's are different and if he's as good as you say he is he should fit right in, cause thats everything we are missing. I don't see what the big wait is for, there have been plenty of young rookie QB's as of late. Philip Rivers is definitly benifiting from LT's massive season, that'll take the pressure off the QB. I put Tavaris in a Charger uniform and have just as much faith in my offense. Tavaris, LT, Gates, there oline, McCardel. Nasty. If we play Tavaris and loose, oh well kid will rebound, he's tough. His offseason workouts are proof that he's mentaly focused.
    You make some extremely good points here.
    I still agree with keeping Brad Johnson as QB, but your line of logic is completely as valid.

    Not only could T-Jack possibly spark the players and have no memory of struggles, but since teams are REALLY starting to load the box with 7+ guys (hell, sooner or later they won't even cover our WRs and just put all 11 in there - it'll be like a FG block formation on 2nd down) but if Tarvaris has some good leg speed, he could possibly escape pressure and get out to the flats for some big sneak yards.

    Who really knows until we see it?
    BUT, if Brad should lose us the next game and have embarassing numbers like a sub 40% completion rate with 2+ interceptions and no passing TDs, then by all means, I'd be on board for the T-Jack switch.
    I think most Vikes fans would say that enough is enough, what do we really have to lose.
    At that point, it couldn't hurt, we'd have lost to 3 pitiful teams who we have NO business losing to.

  6. #16
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    Re: Brad Doesnt Deserve to play in the nfl

    dang if only we have signed Vinny Testaverde, then we'd win out lol

  7. #17
    VikingsTw is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Brad Doesnt Deserve to play in the nfl

    "douginc" wrote:
    "HornedHat" wrote:
    Dang, Douginc, did you REALLY have T-Jack pegged before the draft? That is impressive. It was a complete surprize to me. I nominate you for the scouting department. What did you think about Ryan Cook?
    I swear I had him written down before the draft -- Ron "Jaws" Jaworski wrote very highly about him on NFL.com, and that's where I first heard his name.
    So, I had to check the boy out.
    T-Jack's intelligence on the field was very impressive.
    "Jaws" later said, right before the draft, that Tarvaris could very well be as good as Cutler, Leinart, or Young in the draft, and be picked up much later.

    Now Ryan Cook, I was all psyched before our 2nd round pick, and I thought FOR SURE that we would take LB Abdul Hodge out of Iowa, and then RYAN COOK popped up on the screen.
    I, along with 99.999% of all Vikes fans went, "WHO???"
    How is Ryan Cook doing, anyway?
    Anyone know?
    I mean, in a year or two, no way he could be worse than Arvis Hicks.
    Not that Hicks is horrendous, just that there is much room for improvement.

    But I guess Abdul isn't doing too hot in Green Bay, he's not starting, I know that.
    I thought the Pack might have a phenomenal LB corp in the future having AJ Hawk next to Abdul Hodge.
    I think Ryan Cook is gonna be good. He was a beast up here in New Mexico. He holds his ground, mauler, big and strong. Putting him in may do some good, most of the other rookies has played good ball despite playing early.

    I think we had a great draft, we'll look back on this class as a good year. Childress and co did good.

  8. #18
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    Re: Brad Doesnt Deserve to play in the nfl

    "douginc" wrote:
    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:
    "HornedHat" wrote:
    Dang, Douginc, did you REALLY have T-Jack pegged before the draft? That is impressive. It was a complete surprize to me. I nominate you for the scouting department. What did you think about Ryan Cook?
    While we're on the topic...

    Andrae Allison from ECU will be the biggest sleeper in this year's draft/
    Who is he and what position does he play?
    I'm just guessing he might be a WR, since that's what the Vikes desperately need.
    I'm a draft freak, and obsess on learning all I can about players beforehand, so anything you could tell about him I'd love to hear.
    What makes him great?
    Speed, hands, route running, vision?
    We NEED an elite WR playmaker on this team desperately.

    I actually kind of like our Gophers boy Logan Payne as another possible WR option.
    ONLY because he has terrific hands, a seemingly natural ability to get open, and he'll quite possibly go undrafted since he doesn't have great numbers.
    My family purchases Gophers season tickets every year (I have a handicapped brother and sister I take to each game and they love football and marching bands), and this year has been a complete snore fest.
    The only thing keeping me awake is seeing how Logan and Spaeth do on the field.
    But Cupito isn't a great QB and we're not much of a passing offense anyway.
    So, Logan could be picked up after the draft and be a more than adequate 4th or 5th receiver, or be a practice squad guy.

    Senior Wide Reciever. 6'1" 210. Great speed and vision and has that one on one skill that you need in the NFL. Real burner like Troy was but has the hands to back it up. I'd love to see what he could do with a real great quarterback. should go mid to late rounds. Aundrae's made ECU look leaps and bounds better than they really are.


    And yeah logan payne was my other sleeper in my wide recievers to watch for article that i wrote. I can see payne going late to undrafted just because this is such a great wr draft..

    but lets not hijack this thread too much now.

  9. #19
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    Re: Brad Doesnt Deserve to play in the nfl

    "Ltrey33" wrote:
    AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ok, now that that's out of my system....

    Actually, Charlie Frye has more interceptions than Brad. He's got 3 more, so is it possible that HE'S the most inept quarterback in the NFL?

    Johnson was let go in favor of whoever, but who won the Super Bowl? Yeah...that was Brad.

    Say what you will about Johnson, but he gives us the best chance to win right now.

    I know you're new, but
    if you're going to start a new thread over this you should really come up with better arguments to backup your statements.
    C'Mon now ... the guy deserves to be flamed, but comparing Frye to Johnson is a little unfair.
    While Frye does have a lower passer rating (a good, but not glaring stat to judge QBs by) he does have 4 more TDs throwing and seven more TDs overall ... that is a big deal ... he also has a compltely inept running game to make throwing that much tougher.
    Brad has less TDs than any other QB in the league with 195 passes (other than Andrew Walter ... and that is another situation that just is completely different).
    BJ is in an offense that runs runs and runs and demands the safeties and LBs to cheat ... but he still cannot produce. He is 23 in YDs/Att., 20 in sacks taken, 30th in TD passes, 22nd in INTs, 25th in rating, and 21st in sack yardage allowed. He has also lost four fumbles.
    In an offense that has pounded the run fairly succesfully ... a game management QB should be able to take advantage of situations where the CBs, Safeties and LBS play up ... our receivers are not performing, but they cannot stretch the field at all when opponents are playing tight coverage and conceding the deep ball that cannot be completed.
    I would most definitely take Frye over Johnson ... hell ... I would maybe even take Andrew Walters ... and at this point I would definitely take Tarvaris Jackson OR Brooks Bollinger.

  10. #20
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    Re: Brad Doesnt Deserve to play in the nfl

    "PurplePeopleEaters" wrote:
    It was Chris Simms.

    His turnovers are usually on his shots downfield, the reason behind why he doesn't usually take the shots.

    Every QB...
    : You would take 4th stringers over this guy? This is so irrational.

    His butt probably will be on the bench if he SINGLE HANDEDLY loses us the next two games. If he plays well and the rest of the team loses it, he deserves to keep his job.

    I want to see you get out there and do what he does on a weekly basis. Come back next week when you have three broken bones, no teeth left, and a new found respect for brad johnson. Not to mention the verbal beatdown he gets from idiots like you every day.

    You are an embarrassment to this site right now. Re-think what you're saying before you start saying it.
    He has the right to his own opinion whether you agree with you or not, no matter how unstantiated it might be. That does not make him an idiot or an embarrassment to this site.

    We had many threads like this last year regarding Culpepper, by an even bigger populus. I don't recall how you stood on the issue & I don't feel like going dredging right now.

    We all view & see things differently from the couch or the stadium seat & come here to express those opinions & feelings Good, bad or indifferent.

    When we were 4-2, we were sitting pretty good despite a lackluster offense. Now that people have found our weakness, the've exploited it & it has resulted in a 3 game loss. Frustration sets in amongst the fans & they come hear to vent & voice their opinions.

    That is why we are here & that is why this site is the best Vikings fan site on the net.


    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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