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  1. #21
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "Acumen" wrote:
    "CCthebest" wrote:
    I dont understand how an ex QB coach should have put so much faith in a million dollar QB, to get us to the superbowl. Maybe a HC without all the QB experience BC has, but not one who coached McNabb.

    Did he really think BJ could get it done? Or was BJ just filler till he could hand pick a rookie and coach him to stardom?

    And how can you only give 1 million and change to your QB starter and expect to have a good backup? I mean come on, Mike McMahon, JT, Brooks??? Youd think an ex QB coach could spot at least a little talent.

    Also, what experience does BC have in play calling? Cause, quite frankly, he sucks. Terrible 3rd down conversions, and even worse red zone calls. Yeah yeah dropped passes and penalties hurt but come on. Is his ego so big hes just going to keep calling plays, and not Get our OC to? Or would our OC be that much worse. BC needs free time to actually coach. Is he really that much better then Tice? What were Tice's numbers his rookie year as HC? Not that I like Tice, but I thought BC could at least match his numbers.
    I am of the opinion that BJ was kept in the lineup as an interim QB to train up Tarvaris.
    Their offseason actions support this theory.
    They tried to shore up the lines, got some LB help, got an FB, decent RB, etc. and put the QB position on the back burner.

    The whole Foley argument that Del Rio brought up regarding Tarvaris is interesting.
    The main comments I've seen regarding Tarvaris from Childress is that he has to be able to 'man-up' and learn to play through injuries (when relevant).
    I seriously doubt this theory though, Foley (Fred Flintsone) is a questionable character, but the move for Tarvaris in the second was supposedly approved the the 'triangle of authority'.
    There is no reason for me to believe that Tarvaris isn't still being groomed for the future.


    Where the master plan fell short, apparently, is when the offense has refused to produce for an array of reasons (BJ, receivers, line, play-calling, new schemes...and interaction of these factors).
    Now, if the BJ experiment of grooming the future QB falls through the cracks AND the coaches decide that TJ isn't ready to start then the Vikings will, without a doubt, be looking for a new QB to either buy some more time waiting for Tarvaris or to potentially take the reigns.
    No matter how you slice it Tarvaris (plug any other QBs name in here) will have to prove to the coaching staff that they are the man for the job.

    BJ has had some BJ-like games this year and some pathetic games.
    Childress himself said that the turnovers from BJ last week were from two blindsides and a tipped ball (it doesn't matter if he said it, it is what happened).
    The fact that BJ is playing inconsistently doesn't take away the fact that he does have a lot of NFL experience and game management experience to relay on to Tarvaris.
    Whether it's a W or an L if Tarvaris isn't learning something in the process it is on his own shoulders for not taking the initiative to be a life-long learner.

    Personally, I would be really surprised if Bevell isn't pooh-canned this year and a real OC isn't brought in that has earned his way up through the ranks.
    I know you have been saying that Childress has ego problems since the first day he was signed.
    I don't buy it.
    He wants to win and he has a plan and he is implementing that plan.
    A loss to the tune of 3-9 is nothing.
    They can easily correct that.
    If Bethel Johnson would have caught that duck and if Travis Taylor wouldn't have committed that penalty we wouldn't be having this discussion.
    So is football, every week there's something and the blame game goes on...similar to corporate america.
    Find a scapegoat.

    The field general on the offense is the QB.
    Rightfully or not, they get much of the blame.
    Reality is the HC should take the brunt of the blame, and he did if you look at his press conference, and he need to look at the OC, line coaches, receiving coaches, QB coach...etc. and rectify the problem.
    If Bevell had a spine (I'm guessing he doesn't, obviously), he would call a spade a spade and call Childress on his supposed lack of creativity or adjustments on the O.
    There is no doubt in my mind that Bevell is sitting next to Childress (probably on his lap) when they are analyzing what happened and they are brainstorming solutions.
    A good leader utilizes the resources around him and is ultimately responsible.
    Childress took the responsibility for the problems and put them on his own shoulders (very unDenny-like) but the question that remains to be answered from a fan's perspective is whether he is effectively utilizing the rest of the coaching staff.

    It is early in his tenure, the answer will surface eventually.
    Great post!

    With perhaps the exception of the New England game, a play here or there that goes different and this team would have been 7-1.

    Then this site would have been in a purple butt slapping frenzy.

    It appeared this team had a chance to be very good based on pre-season and early season opponents.

    It appears we may be in a rebuilding year now.But we don't know this yet!

    Week in and week out games are decided by a few simple mistakes or plays.

    Any team can win as they say "on any given Sunday".

    If the O line improves it's pass protection a little, Johnson and the play calling will not be a problem, providing the crucial penalties and dropped balls diminish.
    And there lies the problem.
    This offense isn't potent enough to overcome even one minor mistake.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #22
    whackthepack is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    The one thing that was stressed when we hired Childress was that the vikings head coaching job was the cream of the crop because they had an already talented roster compared to other job openings and they also had tons of cap room and an owner who was not afraid to spend money to get a championship.

    Childress was hailed on this site and the media if I am not mistaken, as a "QB developing machine".
    That point was made both in reference to his work at Wisconsin and Philly with McNabb and also after the draft when we drafted Jackson.

    Last year we were 9-7 and we supposedly upgraded the roster and the coaching staff in the off season so it would stand to figure that we should be in a position this year to have a better record than last year. If we end up with the same record as last year after upgrading the talent and staff then I would say we would not have gotten a good return on our investment.

    The one thing that was stated that we needed was a new standard of accountability in terms of both on the field performance and off field behavior and we would be a contender. I think it is safe to say that even though we have certainly seen less tolerance of shoddy behavior ( Even though the stairwell sex and the drunken police chase still happened) the coach has certainly dealt with it well, but it has not translated to chemistry or success on the field.

    I am not sure how much time should be considered acceptable in order for the team and the staff to be on the same page but to me that time is closer to training camp than it is mid-season. One thing to consider is that even if they get some sort of chemistry by game 12 or so, it is too late to be of any use this season and we all know that with free agency this team and staff will look different next year so anything we accomplished with chemistry this year will be a moot point next year.

    If the QB couldn't get the ball to the receivers in training camp, if the receivers couldn't catch the ball in training camp they should have been replaced with people who could and if the OL couldn't execute a blocking scheme in training camp they should have addressed it then because the season begins with game 1, not game 10,11 or 12. and in this league you cannot be successful learning on the fly.

    As stated earlier, if the team was 4-12 last year and needed a complete rebuild I would understand being .500 at mid- season but with a team that supposedly only needed a few tweaks to get to the playoffs we should be better than 4-4 and certainly should be good enough to score at least one touchdown against one of the worst defenses in the NFL.

    When Childress made that statement we still had Koren Robinson who should have been our # 1 receiver, and Daunte was still the top QB when he returned from his injury.
    But Daunte forced his way out, and Robinson drinking and running from the police changed 2 key positions and left our offense short at receiver and QB!

    If Daunte's injury would have been handled the right way he would be about ready to come in and start, and with doing it the right way he would probably not be the basket case he is right now!

    Having Koren with Williamson, Taylor and Marcus as the top 4 WR's maybe things would have gone differently for this offense, but that is all speculation because the 2 of them are not here.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

  3. #23
    vikes09's Avatar
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    Childress was hailed on this site and the media if I am not mistaken, as a "QB developing machine".
    That point was made both in reference to his work at Wisconsin and Philly with McNabb and also after the draft when we drafted Jackson.


    not so much a "qb developing maching, but a guy who knows the qbs pretty gol' darnit well.

    Last year we were 9-7 and we supposedly upgraded the roster and the coaching staff in the off season so it would stand to figure that we should be in a position this year to have a better record than last year. If we end up with the same record as last year after upgrading the talent and staff then I would say we would not have gotten a good return on our investment.

    we definately improved our coaching staff, and along with new coaches come new styles, gameplans, and (most importantly) their own schemes. this takes time to learn and with a whole new staff. i think we're feeling the effects of it come week 9 of the season, but it will get better with time.

    concerning the upgraded players, some were definate upgrades (hutch) and some have been injured (greenway).
    i think this statement was made when we had absolutely NO news, the offseason was nearing an end, and everyone was getting excited for the new season. new players are always praised to no extent, but again it was the only thing that happened in months and everyone was extremely excited.

    The one thing that was stated that we needed was a new standard of accountability in terms of both on the field performance and off field behavior and we would be a contender. I think it is safe to say that even though we have certainly seen less tolerance of shoddy behavior ( Even though the stairwell sex and the drunken police chase still happened) the coach has certainly dealt with it well, but it has not translated to chemistry or success on the field.

    it wasnt supposed to equate to sucess on the field, but a better image of the viking organization. the stairwell incident was handled very well (from a new player, dwight smith) as was the police chase (koren no longer a viking). i would have to say thats helped start the rebuilding of the image the vikes want.

    I am not sure how much time should be considered acceptable in order for the team and the staff to be on the same page but to me that time is closer to training camp than it is mid-season. One thing to consider is that even if they get some sort of chemistry by game 12 or so, it is too late to be of any use this season and we all know that with free agency this team and staff will look different next year so anything we accomplished with chemistry this year will be a moot point next year.

    im saying 9 weeks... ;D

    If the QB couldn't get the ball to the receivers in training camp, if the receivers couldn't catch the ball in training camp they should have been replaced with people who could and if the OL couldn't execute a blocking scheme in training camp they should have addressed it then because the season begins with game 1, not game 10,11 or 12. and in this league you cannot be successful learning on the fly.

    i would consider changing receivers by training camp "learning on the fly". and the coaches probably tried to install their scheme right away, regardless. blocking if anything cant be learned on the fly, and bringing another guy in when training camp is going would probably hinder them and the offensive line's "chemistry".

    As stated earlier, if the team was 4-12 last year and needed a complete rebuild I would understand being .500 at mid- season but with a team that supposedly only needed a few tweaks to get to the playoffs we should be better than 4-4 and certainly should be good enough to score at least one touchdown against one of the worst defenses in the NFL.

    i agree that our offense is bad, but passing offense is the LAST thing to develop in a new scheme. last year we were headed to the superbowl, and the year hadnt started.
    this year most people took a wiser approach and had reasonable (as far as being a baised vikings fan goes 8)) idea of how the season was going to go.

    we have the packers in week 9, so lets cruise past them and go to 5-4!!!

  4. #24
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    my problem with childress is with how badly hes just trying to impress us all with words..he said all those things at the beginning of the season about utilizing the TEs, and sticking to the run..on field discipline..all things we havent seen..and then this week he tops it all by saying that the problems "start with me", but turns right around after that, in the same paragraph, and says hes not going to change himself or his approach
    People who see life as anything more than pure entertainment are missing the point.

  5. #25
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "olson_10" wrote:
    my problem with childress is with how badly hes just trying to impress us all with words..he said all those things at the beginning of the season about utilizing the TEs, and sticking to the run..on field discipline..all things we havent seen..and then this week he tops it all by saying that the problems "start with me", but turns right around after that, in the same paragraph, and says hes not going to change himself or his approach
    He should not change his "approach".
    I doubt any pro or good college coach ever changes there approach.
    Sure, they change some minor things but the "approach" is the label as a coach.

    If you do not like the fact that he is trying to impress you with words, maybe he is confusing you.

  6. #26
    2beersTommy's Avatar
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "olson_10" wrote:
    my problem with childress is with how badly hes just trying to impress us all with words..he said all those things at the beginning of the season about utilizing the TEs, and sticking to the run..on field discipline..all things we havent seen..and then this week he tops it all by saying that the problems "start with me", but turns right around after that, in the same paragraph, and says hes not going to change himself or his approach
    WOW, didnt you ever hear the expression "baffle them with bull$hit" ? Thats one of my stonger qualities
    ;D

  7. #27
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "Del" wrote:
    "CCthebest" wrote:
    I dont understand how an ex QB coach should have put so much faith in a million dollar QB, to get us to the superbowl. Maybe a HC without all the QB experience BC has, but not one who coached McNabb.

    Did he really think BJ could get it done? Or was BJ just filler till he could hand pick a rookie and coach him to stardom?

    And how can you only give 1 million and change to your QB starter and expect to have a good backup? I mean come on, Mike McMahon, JT, Brooks??? Youd think an ex QB coach could spot at least a little talent.

    Also, what experience does BC have in play calling? Cause, quite frankly, he sucks. Terrible 3rd down conversions, and even worse red zone calls. Yeah yeah dropped passes and penalties hurt but come on. Is his ego so big hes just going to keep calling plays, and not Get our OC to? Or would our OC be that much worse. BC needs free time to actually coach. Is he really that much better then Tice? What were Tice's numbers his rookie year as HC? Not that I like Tice, but I thought BC could at least match his numbers.
    Lots of head coaches call their own plays it has nothing to do with ego.

    I honestly think he wanted to use Daunte Culpepper and at the same time he has Wilf wanting a strict regime that cleans up the team and takes care of buisiness. So when friction arose with Culpepper I think he had to take a stand and he did, and then he had to settle for BJ. He plays him now IMO because he is the best we have.

    Do not dismiss the redzone screwups so easily. Yeah yeah comon doesn't quite cover the impact a dropped pass, a penalty, and a turnover can have.

    We have won 4 games. Do you think Brad Childress has a script of good plays and a script of bad ones lol. How can he call a game like Seattle and then turn around and be at fault in San Fran when he is using the exact same plays?

    If you want to crunch Tice Vs. Childress numbers take into account the roster. What is more impressive to you doing more with less or doing absolutley NOTHING with more (TICE.) Apples and Oranges.
    Tice never had Tomlin. Tomlin probably has made the biggest impact on this team, IMO.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #28
    DEVIKINGFAN!'s Avatar
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    I dont think anybody is going to be happy.... Until we...........BRING BACK BUD!!!!!!!

    "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn t thinking."
    - General George Patton Jr

  9. #29
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "DEVIKINGFAN!" wrote:
    I dont think anybody is going to be happy.... Until we...........BRING BACK BUD!!!!!!!
    Bud is still here. He works for the Vikings front office as a consultant.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #30
    BadlandsVikings's Avatar
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "DEVIKINGFAN!" wrote:
    I dont think anybody is going to be happy.... Until we...........BRING BACK BUD!!!!!!!
    What Would Bud Do?

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