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  1. #11
    Gift's Avatar
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "Del" wrote:
    GIFT: Are all of our WR's HB's running 6 yard routes? No they are not. I am sure Childress doesnt draw up a play and say ok everyone go 6 yards and curl. There are various routes at various depths and the QB, the WR and the LINE have to make the play. How in the name of GOD is it Brad Childress' fault if Brad Johnson throws to a guy 6 yards deep? EVERY pass play has a check down. Weather Brad sucks and made a bad read or he didnt have time to read because McKinnie was getting beat outside is not Brad Childress' fault.
    If I though they were not designed plays I wouldn't have made my statement.
    Take that INT in the redzone vs NE, There was only one reciever brad ever planned on throwing to & that was memo.
    The route ran 3-5 yards infront of the endzone & had it not been picked memo would have never made it in anyway.
    http://www.purplepride.org/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=6169&dateline=1318052  159

  2. #12
    Gift's Avatar
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "Braddock" wrote:
    Yeah great posts Del, and Gift, your sig is insane. Come on....
    I dont even think my sig is working right now
    :'(
    http://www.purplepride.org/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=6169&dateline=1318052  159

  3. #13
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "Gift" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    GIFT: Are all of our WR's HB's running 6 yard routes? No they are not. I am sure Childress doesnt draw up a play and say ok everyone go 6 yards and curl. There are various routes at various depths and the QB, the WR and the LINE have to make the play. How in the name of GOD is it Brad Childress' fault if Brad Johnson throws to a guy 6 yards deep? EVERY pass play has a check down. Weather Brad sucks and made a bad read or he didnt have time to read because McKinnie was getting beat outside is not Brad Childress' fault.
    If I though they were not designed plays I wouldn't have made my statement.
    Take that INT in the redzone vs NE, There was only one reciever brad ever planned on throwing to & that was memo.
    The route ran 3-5 yards infront of the endzone & had it not been picked memo would have never made it in anyway.
    So you are saying in your gut you have a feeling that Brad Childress said, no matter what you pass the ball to Memo?

    I don't know about that. It would be interesting to watch the other WR's. In fact on that very play Bethel Johnson was open on the sideline and he sure looked like he was miffed that he didnt get the pass. I think it was a Brad Johnson decision. We will never know though.

  4. #14
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
    Purple Floyd is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    The one thing that was stressed when we hired Childress was that the vikings head coaching job was the cream of the crop because they had an already talented roster compared to other job openings and they also had tons of cap room and an owner who was not afraid to spend money to get a championship.

    Childress was hailed on this site and the media if I am not mistaken, as a "QB developing machine".
    That point was made both in reference to his work at Wisconsin and Philly with McNabb and also after the draft when we drafted Jackson.

    Last year we were 9-7 and we supposedly upgraded the roster and the coaching staff in the off season so it would stand to figure that we should be in a position this year to have a better record than last year. If we end up with the same record as last year after upgrading the talent and staff then I would say we would not have gotten a good return on our investment.

    The one thing that was stated that we needed was a new standard of accountability in terms of both on the field performance and off field behavior and we would be a contender. I think it is safe to say that even though we have certainly seen less tolerance of shoddy behavior ( Even though the stairwell sex and the drunken police chase still happened) the coach has certainly dealt with it well, but it has not translated to chemistry or success on the field.

    I am not sure how much time should be considered acceptable in order for the team and the staff to be on the same page but to me that time is closer to training camp than it is mid-season. One thing to consider is that even if they get some sort of chemistry by game 12 or so, it is too late to be of any use this season and we all know that with free agency this team and staff will look different next year so anything we accomplished with chemistry this year will be a moot point next year.

    If the QB couldn't get the ball to the receivers in training camp, if the receivers couldn't catch the ball in training camp they should have been replaced with people who could and if the OL couldn't execute a blocking scheme in training camp they should have addressed it then because the season begins with game 1, not game 10,11 or 12. and in this league you cannot be successful learning on the fly.

    As stated earlier, if the team was 4-12 last year and needed a complete rebuild I would understand being .500 at mid- season but with a team that supposedly only needed a few tweaks to get to the playoffs we should be better than 4-4 and certainly should be good enough to score at least one touchdown against one of the worst defenses in the NFL.

  5. #15
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "Acumen" wrote:
    "CCthebest" wrote:
    I dont understand how an ex QB coach should have put so much faith in a million dollar QB, to get us to the superbowl. Maybe a HC without all the QB experience BC has, but not one who coached McNabb.

    Did he really think BJ could get it done? Or was BJ just filler till he could hand pick a rookie and coach him to stardom?

    And how can you only give 1 million and change to your QB starter and expect to have a good backup? I mean come on, Mike McMahon, JT, Brooks??? Youd think an ex QB coach could spot at least a little talent.

    Also, what experience does BC have in play calling? Cause, quite frankly, he sucks. Terrible 3rd down conversions, and even worse red zone calls. Yeah yeah dropped passes and penalties hurt but come on. Is his ego so big hes just going to keep calling plays, and not Get our OC to? Or would our OC be that much worse. BC needs free time to actually coach. Is he really that much better then Tice? What were Tice's numbers his rookie year as HC? Not that I like Tice, but I thought BC could at least match his numbers.
    I am of the opinion that BJ was kept in the lineup as an interim QB to train up Tarvaris.
    Their offseason actions support this theory.
    They tried to shore up the lines, got some LB help, got an FB, decent RB, etc. and put the QB position on the back burner.

    The whole Foley argument that Del Rio brought up regarding Tarvaris is interesting.
    The main comments I've seen regarding Tarvaris from Childress is that he has to be able to 'man-up' and learn to play through injuries (when relevant).
    I seriously doubt this theory though, Foley (Fred Flintsone) is a questionable character, but the move for Tarvaris in the second was supposedly approved the the 'triangle of authority'.
    There is no reason for me to believe that Tarvaris isn't still being groomed for the future.


    Where the master plan fell short, apparently, is when the offense has refused to produce for an array of reasons (BJ, receivers, line, play-calling, new schemes...and interaction of these factors).
    Now, if the BJ experiment of grooming the future QB falls through the cracks AND the coaches decide that TJ isn't ready to start then the Vikings will, without a doubt, be looking for a new QB to either buy some more time waiting for Tarvaris or to potentially take the reigns.
    No matter how you slice it Tarvaris (plug any other QBs name in here) will have to prove to the coaching staff that they are the man for the job.

    BJ has had some BJ-like games this year and some pathetic games.
    Childress himself said that the turnovers from BJ last week were from two blindsides and a tipped ball (it doesn't matter if he said it, it is what happened).
    The fact that BJ is playing inconsistently doesn't take away the fact that he does have a lot of NFL experience and game management experience to relay on to Tarvaris.
    Whether it's a W or an L if Tarvaris isn't learning something in the process it is on his own shoulders for not taking the initiative to be a life-long learner.

    Personally, I would be really surprised if Bevell isn't pooh-canned this year and a real OC isn't brought in that has earned his way up through the ranks.
    I know you have been saying that Childress has ego problems since the first day he was signed.
    I don't buy it.
    He wants to win and he has a plan and he is implementing that plan.
    A loss to the tune of 3-9 is nothing.
    They can easily correct that.
    If Bethel Johnson would have caught that duck and if Travis Taylor wouldn't have committed that penalty we wouldn't be having this discussion.
    So is football, every week there's something and the blame game goes on...similar to corporate america.
    Find a scapegoat.

    The field general on the offense is the QB.
    Rightfully or not, they get much of the blame.
    Reality is the HC should take the brunt of the blame, and he did if you look at his press conference, and he need to look at the OC, line coaches, receiving coaches, QB coach...etc. and rectify the problem.
    If Bevell had a spine (I'm guessing he doesn't, obviously), he would call a spade a spade and call Childress on his supposed lack of creativity or adjustments on the O.
    There is no doubt in my mind that Bevell is sitting next to Childress (probably on his lap) when they are analyzing what happened and they are brainstorming solutions.
    A good leader utilizes the resources around him and is ultimately responsible.
    Childress took the responsibility for the problems and put them on his own shoulders (very unDenny-like) but the question that remains to be answered from a fan's perspective is whether he is effectively utilizing the rest of the coaching staff.

    It is early in his tenure, the answer will surface eventually.
    Great post!

    With perhaps the exception of the New England game, a play here or there that goes different and this team would have been 7-1.

    Then this site would have been in a purple butt slapping frenzy.

    It appeared this team had a chance to be very good based on pre-season and early season opponents.

    It appears we may be in a rebuilding year now.But we don't know this yet!

    Week in and week out games are decided by a few simple mistakes or plays.

    Any team can win as they say "on any given Sunday".

    If the O line improves it's pass protection a little, Johnson and the play calling will not be a problem, providing the crucial penalties and dropped balls diminish.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  6. #16
    Gift's Avatar
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "Del" wrote:
    "Gift" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    GIFT: Are all of our WR's HB's running 6 yard routes? No they are not. I am sure Childress doesnt draw up a play and say ok everyone go 6 yards and curl. There are various routes at various depths and the QB, the WR and the LINE have to make the play. How in the name of GOD is it Brad Childress' fault if Brad Johnson throws to a guy 6 yards deep? EVERY pass play has a check down. Weather Brad sucks and made a bad read or he didnt have time to read because McKinnie was getting beat outside is not Brad Childress' fault.
    If I though they were not designed plays I wouldn't have made my statement.
    Take that INT in the redzone vs NE, There was only one reciever brad ever planned on throwing to & that was memo.
    The route ran 3-5 yards infront of the endzone & had it not been picked memo would have never made it in anyway.
    So you are saying in your gut you have a feeling that Brad Childress said, no matter what you pass the ball to Memo?

    I don't know about that. It would be interesting to watch the other WR's. In fact on that very play Bethel Johnson was open on the sideline and he sure looked like he was miffed that he didnt get the pass. I think it was a Brad Johnson decision. We will never know though.
    I don't think it was "pass to memo at all costs" but I think that he was primary.
    I also think BJ has done a terrible job this year of executing BC's game plan.
    I'm not blaming BC for the entire flop that is the Vikings offense, but he does hold a high level of accountability as the HC & the OC.
    It is his job to inspire & motivate people to play for him & thus far I think MT has done a far better job on the D side of the ball.
    http://www.purplepride.org/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=6169&dateline=1318052  159

  7. #17
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    If the QB couldn't get the ball to the receivers in training camp, if the receivers couldn't catch the ball in training camp they should have been replaced with people who could and if the OL couldn't execute a blocking scheme in training camp they should have addressed it then because the season begins with game 1, not game 10,11 or 12. and in this league you cannot be successful learning on the fly

    I think training camp and real games are different situations. You take the guys who are the best in training camp. It doesn't mean the success will translate onto the field.

    Blocking in training camp is like whacking it, sure it gets the job done but it doesn't mean when you have a woman with you that your not gonna be poking an armpit.

    You take who does the best and it is a learning experience every game as you actually get to be battle tested against another team that is going 100% I highly doubt anyone who is starting did bad in training camp. Walking through a block scheme with helmet and shoulders trying not to get hurt is different then trying to figure out who to block when Brian Urlacher is lined up over you and linemen are shifting.

    The season is school time. Learning time. That is why teams that are great have been together for many years.

  8. #18
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "Gift" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    "Gift" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    GIFT: Are all of our WR's HB's running 6 yard routes? No they are not. I am sure Childress doesnt draw up a play and say ok everyone go 6 yards and curl. There are various routes at various depths and the QB, the WR and the LINE have to make the play. How in the name of GOD is it Brad Childress' fault if Brad Johnson throws to a guy 6 yards deep? EVERY pass play has a check down. Weather Brad sucks and made a bad read or he didnt have time to read because McKinnie was getting beat outside is not Brad Childress' fault.
    If I though they were not designed plays I wouldn't have made my statement.
    Take that INT in the redzone vs NE, There was only one reciever brad ever planned on throwing to & that was memo.
    The route ran 3-5 yards infront of the endzone & had it not been picked memo would have never made it in anyway.
    So you are saying in your gut you have a feeling that Brad Childress said, no matter what you pass the ball to Memo?

    I don't know about that. It would be interesting to watch the other WR's. In fact on that very play Bethel Johnson was open on the sideline and he sure looked like he was miffed that he didnt get the pass. I think it was a Brad Johnson decision. We will never know though.
    I don't think it was "pass to memo at all costs" but I think that he was primary.
    I also think BJ has done a terrible job this year of executing BC's game plan.
    I'm not blaming BC for the entire flop that is the Vikings offense, but he does hold a high level of accountability as the HC & the OC.
    It is his job to inspire & motivate people to play for him & thus far I think MT has done a far better job on the D side of the ball.
    I think Childress would probably accept the critisizm as he did with his press conference. There is plenty of blame to go around.

    ~Edit~
    Also Gift I enjoy discussing football with everyone and I like the insights you bring to the table. If anything I said in our discussion came off as assholeish that was not my intent. We can't prove each other wrong on this, and at the end of the day I am sure we both could care less what is what and why it is if the Vikings would just start winning some damn games! ;D

  9. #19
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    "Del" wrote:
    "CCthebest" wrote:
    But Childress had twqice the money, both to himself, and to spend on players, then Tice ever dreamed of. We spent alot of linemen, and the only one worth it is Hutch. Mckenny isnt. Wasted too much on the line for it not to pan out for us. I sure hope it doesnt take 3 or 4 years for them to gel.
    What are you talking about money for. Tice had one of the most potent offenses in the entire NFL handed to him. Vetran players who know the game.


    Here are some stats for those of you who continue to call Childress' play calling predictable:

    Passing

    1st

    94ATT
    2nd
    74ATT
    3rd

    84ATT
    4th


    6ATT

    So predictable would be passing on 3rd down. He passed more on 1st then 3rd that is the opposite of predictable.

    Rushing

    1st
    91ATT
    2nd
    69ATT
    3rd
    12ATT
    4th

    1ATT

    First of all find me a team that doesnt run a majority of its rushes on first down. Second of all our team has a 5 yard per carry average on 1st down, so yes it is predictable and they still cannot stop us.


    For those of you counting that is 91/94 rush/pass ratio on first down how more unpredictable do you guys want it?

    GIFT: Are all of our WR's HB's running 6 yard routes? No they are not. I am sure Childress doesnt draw up a play and say ok everyone go 6 yards and curl. There are various routes at various depths and the QB, the WR and the LINE have to make the play. How in the name of GOD is it Brad Childress' fault if Brad Johnson throws to a guy 6 yards deep? EVERY pass play has a check down. Weather Brad sucks and made a bad read or he didnt have time to read because McKinnie was getting beat outside is not Brad Childress' fault.
    Thanks for the dose of sanity Del. I love that your posts always point out that people see what they WANT to see, not what is actually happening.

  10. #20
    CCthebest's Avatar
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    Re: Brad Childress, ex QB coach

    I cant believe im saying this, but great posts Prophet and Del hah. I do hope TJack isnt watching Bj too closely though. All those check downs suck. I still would have liked to see an ex Qb coach having better QB options.

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