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  1. #11
    FuadFan's Avatar
    FuadFan is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Which to blame first? The scheme, or its execution?

    "farvathevikinglover" wrote:
    "vikes2456" wrote:
    "mnjamie" wrote:
    Scheme.

    You fit the strengths of the players you have to a scheme that works best ... Not force it down their throats and then blame the players when it doesn't work.
    I agree. The scheme would work fine if we had the right players, but this is not the case. So, therefore the scheme should be at least slightly changed.
    Ditto. I'd elaborate, but it's basically the same, adjust scheme to players, not the other way around.
    So if we were doing what Linehan and Tice did while they were in charge do you really think we would be bettter?
    Minnesota Vikings : Simply the best

  2. #12
    PacNWVike's Avatar
    PacNWVike is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Which to blame first? The scheme, or its execution?

    Interesting, thought provoking analysis folks!
    From my limited coaching/playing point of view, I figure the coaches are paid to recognize what talent they have been dealt and then make a system to capitalize on it.
    Bottom line is if your players suck, you'll suck.
    I don't think this is the case with our Vikings.
    We have a respectable D that could use a little help in the secondary.
    Our O line needs tweaking.
    Our WR corp is wanting...
    Williamson needs one more year to get his feces together, and I would suggest they team get him a Cris Carter caliber mentor to work with him on the off season.
    QB?
    I still have faith in Johnson overall, but his lack of long bomb accuracy bothers me.
    Combine that with our current WRs...
    we become a short pass/running offense that is easier to stop.
    Those wiser than I have questioned our play callling.

    This was Childress first year.
    Give him a chance.
    It's a mixture of scheme and execution.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
    Edmund Burke

  3. #13
    Bretto is offline Rookie
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    Re: Which to blame first? The scheme, or its execution?

    Childress is trying to force our players into his form of wco.
    All the pass plays are based on the hope that the WR can get YAC.
    Childress should have adjusted the scheme and the playcalling at the very least halfway into the season when it was obvioius our players weren't able to play like Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Roger Craig, and John Taylor.

  4. #14
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Which to blame first? The scheme, or its execution?

    Well it is the same scheme that won 6 games. The scheme doesn't force people to turn the ball over, to hold, to jump offsides, to make mistakes........I would have to say execution or implementation of the said scheme. If he has no dialogue with his players then it could just be him not getting the finer points across.

    Hard to blame mistakes by players on the scheme.

  5. #15
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Which to blame first? The scheme, or its execution?

    In the article he points out a 71 yard potential TD pass that Williamson dropped. How is that not explosive, and how is that scheme related. The player dropped the ball, just like he and other have all season long.

    WCO uses a backwards progression. Your first read will always be the short read. Does that mean no one else is running deeper routes that can get past the first down marker? Nope in fact it is 100% certain there are 2-3 guys at or past the marker. In order to make the proper read you need to know where you need to be for a first, you need good pass blocking to have time to progress down the field, you need to have WR's who can get there quickly and create seperation, and you need to have guys who can catch the ball when it gets there. We don't have any of that.

    Execution IMO, and lack of talent.

  6. #16
    whackthepack is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Which to blame first? The scheme, or its execution?

    "Del" wrote:
    In the article he points out a 71 yard potential TD pass that Williamson dropped. How is that not explosive, and how is that scheme related. The player dropped the ball, just like he and other have all season long.

    WCO uses a backwards progression. Your first read will always be the short read. Does that mean no one else is running deeper routes that can get past the first down marker? Nope in fact it is 100% certain there are 2-3 guys at or past the marker. In order to make the proper read you need to know where you need to be for a first, you need good pass blocking to have time to progress down the field, you need to have WR's who can get there quickly and create seperation, and you need to have guys who can catch the ball when it gets there. We don't have any of that.

    Execution IMO, and lack of talent.

    There was also a 42 yard reception to Travis Taylor that was called back for an illegal shift penalty that would have put the Viking in scoring position.

    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

  7. #17
    Del Rio Guest

    Re: Which to blame first? The scheme, or its execution?

    "whackthepack" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    In the article he points out a 71 yard potential TD pass that Williamson dropped. How is that not explosive, and how is that scheme related. The player dropped the ball, just like he and other have all season long.

    WCO uses a backwards progression. Your first read will always be the short read. Does that mean no one else is running deeper routes that can get past the first down marker? Nope in fact it is 100% certain there are 2-3 guys at or past the marker. In order to make the proper read you need to know where you need to be for a first, you need good pass blocking to have time to progress down the field, you need to have WR's who can get there quickly and create seperation, and you need to have guys who can catch the ball when it gets there. We don't have any of that.

    Execution IMO, and lack of talent.

    There was also a 42 yard reception to Travis Taylor that was called back for an illegal shift penalty that would have put the Viking in scoring position.

    Exactly.

    People are acting like Childress is pissing away all this talent with a bad scheme. I ask WHAT TALENT!!!??? Look at our WR core and name one guy on it that is great must have talent?


  8. #18
    radioactivez0r is offline Waterboy
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    Re: Which to blame first? The scheme, or its execution?

    I thought this was an interesting statement:
    "But the play is one of 43 this season on which the Vikings have completed a pass on third down but were tackled short of the first down, an instance that has occurred on about 40 percent of their third-down passing plays. "

    There's got to be something fixable there, that's just retarded.

  9. #19
    PurplePeopleEaters's Avatar
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    Re: Which to blame first? The scheme, or its execution?

    "Del" wrote:
    "whackthepack" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    In the article he points out a 71 yard potential TD pass that Williamson dropped. How is that not explosive, and how is that scheme related. The player dropped the ball, just like he and other have all season long.

    WCO uses a backwards progression. Your first read will always be the short read. Does that mean no one else is running deeper routes that can get past the first down marker? Nope in fact it is 100% certain there are 2-3 guys at or past the marker. In order to make the proper read you need to know where you need to be for a first, you need good pass blocking to have time to progress down the field, you need to have WR's who can get there quickly and create seperation, and you need to have guys who can catch the ball when it gets there. We don't have any of that.

    Execution IMO, and lack of talent.


    There was also a 42 yard reception to Travis Taylor that was called back for an illegal shift penalty that would have put the Viking in scoring position.

    Exactly.

    People are acting like Childress is pissing away all this talent with a bad scheme. I ask WHAT TALENT!!!??? Look at our WR core and name one guy on it that is great must have talent?



    Yeah, we have 2 proven players on offense (birk and hutch), a bunch of no names at WR, a rookie QB, a 1st year starter (who ended up being great) at RB, and a horrible right side of the o-line.

    If we go hit FA hard this year and get the missing pieces, this argument would be a thing of the past.

    I know, we're all naturally homers so we all expected something like 10-6 this year. The reality is that we are not a very good football team whatsoever.

  10. #20
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    Re: Which to blame first? The scheme, or its execution?

    Excuses are fine and sometimes that is all that we have, but think of the excuses the packers,Saints,Rams,Bills and Jets could have used if their coaching staff had not done a good job of using the offseason to assemble the right players for and using a scheme to get the most out of them. All three of those teams started out the offseason in what was determined to be a lot worse position than the Vikings.Of course the packers only one one more game than us but they beat us twice. The Jets manhandled us and our coaches looked totally lost in that game on the sidelines. The packers started out the year slow and we were saying they might be the worst team in years but they made the changes necessary and the coaches did their jobs teaching the players and now they have a shot at the playoffs. In the end we had a team that needed a few changes to go from 9-7 to 10 or 11 wins this year but the way the team was run after Tice was fired has led to the team going backward instead of forward and there was no reason it had to happen with all of the cap room, increases in the number of coaches we were given to help Childress and the number of draft choices we had. There is no deficiency this team has that couldn't have been addressed before the season started or early in the season.

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