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  1. #21
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    "Purplexing" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    "Purplexing" wrote:
    This story should also point out why a well run front office doesn't throw money wildly at free agents just because they are available, and there is cap space available THEN.


    Contracts are negotiated with the anticipation that the salary cap will escalate over the term of the contract.
    Occassionally, an agent asks for too large an escalation in salary over the years of the contract, and the player's performance doesn't improve, or the actual salary cap doesn't increase enough to pay previously signed contracts.

    So, several years after many free agents were signed in a wild spending spree, several players must be asked to renegotiate their contracts.
    Some hold to their position and force ownership to cut them or another player(s).
    Then, a cheaper replacement has to be signed, usually resulting in lost salary cap value due to signing bonuses which were not fully spread over the term of the cancelled contract.

    Finally, simple math.
    If the salary cap is 109M, and there are 43 players, the avg player salary must be 2.5M or less.
    If someone is overpaid, there is less money for quality backups, who will seek jobs on another team.





    Which is exactly why I see no problem with a player holding out. Teams are quick to renegotiate a contract due to a lack in production but will not renegotiate to compensate for an unexpected output of productivity.

    Basically you sign Matt Birk to 5 years when he is at the top of his game..... well the 4th year of his contract is worth 4 million but what is that? He isn't worth 4 million anymore? Well we better renegotiate that.

    Same scenerio, you sign Greg Blue to a minimum and he turns out to be great. He is putting up numbers akin to the pro bowlers in the league, but getting paid slick willy....only now it isn't lets renegotiate it is wow we have him under contract for 3 years for cheap and he can't do pooh about it, and if his contract runs out we can franchise him and at that time work out a deal with him when he is in his prime for 5 years backloaded, expecting his production will diminish and we can renegotiate or send him packing.

    Basic math tells us this is kaka del rio.
    This is why a team shouldn't negotiate a contract, with a player at the peak of his career productivity, that has salaries escalating into the future years above the expected percentage increase of the salary cap.
    If the contract had salaries of 1M, 2M, 3M, 4M and 5M, and a 8M signing bonus, but the player is at the peak of his career when he signs, the 4th and 5th yr salaries would be overpayment relative to performance level and the salary cap increases.

    Thankfully, Brzezinski thought these things through in designing contract terms, and the Vikings had to renegotiate only a few contracts each year.
    And, most player cuts due to performance-pay mismatches were due to performance/ attitude issues; e.g. Smoot, Wiggins, Culpepper.

    The current scheme used by the Vikings in free agency is to sign players BEFORE they hit their career peak perforamnce levels.
    Seeing that this sceme targets younger players who are (not yet) big name players, fans will over-react that the Vikings are 'tanking it' to move to LA, or will make some other uninformed criticism.
    The Vikings backload contracts with the best of them, and cut/rework just as many deals.

    Perhaps not without reckless abandon as some teams but they do the exact same thing.
    If you promise to be smarter, I will promise to be nicer.

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  2. #22
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    Yes, but the backloading is generally used on contracts with younger players; EJH, KW, JDugan.
    Their performance levels are expected to escalate.

    And the backloading MAY be in line with the percentage escalation of the salary cap.

    I'm just guessing on that last point (e.g. 'MAY').
    That may be the source of the current problem in Birks' and Kleinsausage's contracts, notwithstanding Kleinny's decreased performance.
    I'm not sure if those contracts were done by Brzezinski or his predecessor.

    When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all !

  3. #23
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    "Purplexing" wrote:
    Yes, but the backloading is generally used on contracts with younger players; EJH, KW, JDugan.
    Their performance levels are expected to escalate.

    And the backloading MAY be in line with the percentage escalation of the salary cap.

    I'm just guessing on that last point (e.g. 'MAY').
    That may be the source of the current problem in Birks' and Kleinsausage's contracts, notwithstanding Kleinny's decreased performance.
    I'm not sure if those contracts were done by Brzezinski or his predecessor.

    Smoots was backloaded, Mckinnie's is backloaded, Winfields is backloaded, Hutchinsons is heavily backloaded. You would be hard pressed to find a player on our team not backloaded.
    If you promise to be smarter, I will promise to be nicer.

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  4. #24
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    Look at Kevin Williams Contract

    2003 778000.00
    2004 305000.00
    2005 380000.00
    2006 542000.00
    2007 3000000.00
    2008 1000000.00
    2009 1000000.00
    2010 2274000.00
    2011 6000000.00
    2012 6000000.00
    2013 6000000.00
    2014 6000000.00

    You can't tell me that we are not going to try and renegotiate his contract in 2010 if we feel he is worth keeping.

    If you promise to be smarter, I will promise to be nicer.

    My posts are worth 6 of yours.

  5. #25
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    Except for Winfield, those (fairly young) players performance is expected to increase.

    Winfield could be cut before the end of his contract, partly because his bonus was paid as a signing bonus, and won't carry a cap penalty if his contract is terminated early.
    And a plan seems to be in place to replace him with Griffin or Edwards.

    When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all !

  6. #26
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    "Del" wrote:
    "Purplexing" wrote:
    Yes, but the backloading is generally used on contracts with younger players; EJH, KW, JDugan.
    Their performance levels are expected to escalate.

    And the backloading MAY be in line with the percentage escalation of the salary cap.

    I'm just guessing on that last point (e.g. 'MAY').
    That may be the source of the current problem in Birks' and Kleinsausage's contracts, notwithstanding Kleinny's decreased performance.
    I'm not sure if those contracts were done by Brzezinski or his predecessor.

    Smoots was backloaded, Mckinnie's is backloaded, Winfields is backloaded, Hutchinsons is heavily backloaded. You would be hard pressed to find a player on our team not backloaded.
    The vast majority of contracts are backloaded these days.
    That's why, when some agent announces a "FIFTY MILLION DOLLAR DEAL!!!!" the only thing truly of interest is the amount of guaranteed money.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  7. #27
    VikemanX84 is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    I could be wrong, but I am pretty positive Winfield's bonus was paid as a roster bonus when he showed up to training camp in it's first year.
    If it was a signing bonus it would be poro-rated over the life on the contract and we would have to pay it to him if we cut him or traded him.
    When it s all said and done, you ll have to admit we re number 1!

  8. #28
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    "Purplexing" wrote:
    Except for Winfield, those (fairly young) players performance is expected to increase.

    Winfield could be cut before the end of his contract, partly because his bonus was paid as a signing bonus, and won't carry a cap penalty if his contract is terminated early.
    And a plan seems to be in place to replace him with Griffin or Edwards.

    This is the NFL, almost every player is "Fairly young"

    The system if fookered up. That's my only point, and because of this disparity in fairness that is why I base my feeling that a player should hold out if needed. Which I know you and I discussed over the coarse of a few threads in which I undoubtably went off on multiple tangents and confused the situation, when this was the meat and potatoes of what I was trying to convey.
    If you promise to be smarter, I will promise to be nicer.

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  9. #29
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    "VikemanX84" wrote:
    I could be wrong, but I am pretty positive Winfield's bonus was paid as a roster bonus when he showed up to training camp in it's first year.
    If it was a signing bonus it would be poro-rated over the life on the contract and we would have to pay it to him if we cut him or traded him.
    You might be right.
    I was too lazy to look it up.
    I was tempted to put multiple '????' in my post around that point.

    Roster bonus, signing bonus, I don't remember the difference in terms of cap hits upon early contract termination.
    It's either brain freeze, or an insufficient amount of time elapsed for the caffeine effects to be realized, I guess.
    :P
    When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all !

  10. #30
    Billy Boy is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    "VikemanX84" wrote:
    I could be wrong, but I am pretty positive Winfield's bonus was paid as a roster bonus when he showed up to training camp in it's first year.
    If it was a signing bonus it would be poro-rated over the life on the contract and we would have to pay it to him if we cut him or traded him.
    Thats an interesting use of a roster bonus. I don't get why he wouldn't show up to camp the first year. Damn confusing one for sure.

    Does anybody have a source with complete explenation of this stuff.


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