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  1. #11
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    "Del" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    "Billy" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    Two things

    1) They may get a deal reworked, it sounds like both sides are calm about the situation.

    2) I could honest to god see Matt Birk being cut next season to save the 5mil hit.
    I hope not.
    Hes a good guy I would like to see him here, and letting proficient players go is not in my opinion the best way to rebuild.

    Im sure one of two things will happen.
    His play will improve to deserve his money next year or he will be willing to take a pay cut.

    Birk (or at least his agent) stated not too long ago he wants to finish in MN.

    I believe these are preliminary discussions, hes still got two years left.
    As far as fans go it would be a horrible move by the coaching staff. The guy is well loved.

    I liken it to the day I found out Denny got rid of Joey Browner.
    Hated (strong word) him for it, but you know, the Vikings will be around longer than any player.
    They come and go and I have seen alot of them do it in my day.

    If he costs to much, isn't playing to that level, whatever the reason, get rid of him and move on.



    Someone is out there that can replace him. I know that sounds harsh, but the sooner some of our younger fan base figures that out, the better.


    They ya go Del.



    Well you gotta worry about a guy who sticks it out at that position. Having multiple guys run their finger down the crack of your jiggly butt and poke you in the man berries......daily. I don't care where you go to school that aint right.

    I do remember him saying we are paying him too much lol, so money may not be an issue. I will just say he needs to have a better year, and he probably will.

    Or maybe he likes the hands that are back there .........
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #12
    VikemanX84 is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    I found this interesting:

    Cornerback Ronyell Whitaker earned $139,850 from the NFL's performance-based pay program, the most among the Vikings. The system awards additional compensation to players with modest salaries. Whitaker's base salary in 2006 was $350,000.
    I find it funny that $350,000 in a year is a modest salary.
    I know comparatively it is, but they give a guy like Whitaker 140Gs for being a bad nickel/descent Dime guy because he isn't making enough?
    I find it kind of funny, I'm not really critizing the system.
    I think the performance-based bonuses are good usually.
    Just kind of funny.

    I like Birk alot and want him to stay in Minnesota but he has underachieved the last two Seasons, IMO.
    When it s all said and done, you ll have to admit we re number 1!

  3. #13
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    Birk still has two years left on his contract.
    That is plenty of time to work out an extension.
    The Vikings would probably like to see him improve over last year, and it sounds like Birk understands that and is confident that he can...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #14
    Billy Boy is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    Hey if they can find a better guy for the right money I am all for it.
    I do believe he has already hit his peak.
    If the situation happens where he does leave, then that is one more area that needs to be addressed.

    Birk definitely needs to be honored whenever he does leave though, and im sure he will.


    All the kids my age pee their pants, it's the coolest.

  5. #15
    Join Date
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    This story should also point out why a well run front office doesn't throw money wildly at free agents just because they are available, and there is cap space available THEN.


    Contracts are negotiated with the anticipation that the salary cap will escalate over the term of the contract.
    Occassionally, an agent asks for too large an escalation in salary over the years of the contract, and the player's performance doesn't improve, or the actual salary cap doesn't increase enough to pay previously signed contracts.

    So, several years after many free agents were signed in a wild spending spree, several players must be asked to renegotiate their contracts.
    Some hold to their position and force ownership to cut them or another player(s).
    Then, a cheaper replacement has to be signed, usually resulting in lost salary cap value due to signing bonuses which were not fully spread over the term of the cancelled contract.

    Finally, simple math.
    If the salary cap is 109M, and there are 43 players, the avg player salary must be 2.5M or less.
    If someone is overpaid, there is less money for quality backups, who will seek jobs on another team.




    When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all !

  6. #16
    Del Rio is offline Coordinator
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    "Purplexing" wrote:
    This story should also point out why a well run front office doesn't throw money wildly at free agents just because they are available, and there is cap space available THEN.


    Contracts are negotiated with the anticipation that the salary cap will escalate over the term of the contract.
    Occassionally, an agent asks for too large an escalation in salary over the years of the contract, and the player's performance doesn't improve, or the actual salary cap doesn't increase enough to pay previously signed contracts.

    So, several years after many free agents were signed in a wild spending spree, several players must be asked to renegotiate their contracts.
    Some hold to their position and force ownership to cut them or another player(s).
    Then, a cheaper replacement has to be signed, usually resulting in lost salary cap value due to signing bonuses which were not fully spread over the term of the cancelled contract.

    Finally, simple math.
    If the salary cap is 109M, and there are 43 players, the avg player salary must be 2.5M or less.
    If someone is overpaid, there is less money for quality backups, who will seek jobs on another team.





    Which is exactly why I see no problem with a player holding out. Teams are quick to renegotiate a contract due to a lack in production but will not renegotiate to compensate for an unexpected output of productivity.

    Basically you sign Matt Birk to 5 years when he is at the top of his game..... well the 4th year of his contract is worth 4 million but what is that? He isn't worth 4 million anymore? Well we better renegotiate that.

    Same scenerio, you sign Greg Blue to a minimum and he turns out to be great. He is putting up numbers akin to the pro bowlers in the league, but getting paid dick....only now it isn't lets renegotiate it is wow we have him under contract for 3 years for cheap and he can't do shit about it, and if his contract runs out we can franchise him and at that time work out a deal with him when he is in his prime for 5 years backloaded, expecting his production will diminish and we can renegotiate or send him packing.

    Basic math tells us this is bullshit.
    If you promise to be smarter, I will promise to be nicer.

    My posts are worth 6 of yours.

  7. #17
    Zeus's Avatar
    Zeus is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    "Del" wrote:
    Well you gotta worry about a guy who sticks it out at that position. Having multiple guys run their finger down the crack of your ass and poke you in the man berries......daily. I don't care where you go to school that aint right.
    Quick - someone post something to a boobies thread - I need to cleanse my mind!

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  8. #18
    cajunvike's Avatar
    cajunvike is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    "Del" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    "Billy" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    Two things

    1) They may get a deal reworked, it sounds like both sides are calm about the situation.

    2) I could honest to god see Matt Birk being cut next season to save the 5mil hit.
    I hope not.
    Hes a good guy I would like to see him here, and letting proficient players go is not in my opinion the best way to rebuild.

    Im sure one of two things will happen.
    His play will improve to deserve his money next year or he will be willing to take a pay cut.

    Birk (or at least his agent) stated not too long ago he wants to finish in MN.

    I believe these are preliminary discussions, hes still got two years left.
    As far as fans go it would be a horrible move by the coaching staff. The guy is well loved.

    I liken it to the day I found out Denny got rid of Joey Browner.
    Hated (strong word) him for it, but you know, the Vikings will be around longer than any player.
    They come and go and I have seen alot of them do it in my day.

    If he costs to much, isn't playing to that level, whatever the reason, get rid of him and move on.



    Someone is out there that can replace him. I know that sounds harsh, but the sooner some of our younger fan base figures that out, the better.


    They ya go Del.



    Well you gotta worry about a guy who sticks it out at that position. Having multiple guys run their finger down the crack of your jiggly butt and poke you in the man berries......daily. I don't care where you go to school that aint right.

    I do remember him saying we are paying him too much lol, so money may not be an issue. I will just say he needs to have a better year, and he probably will.

    Sounds like you have some experience with that...high school, maybe?
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  9. #19
    Join Date
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    "Del" wrote:
    "Purplexing" wrote:
    This story should also point out why a well run front office doesn't throw money wildly at free agents just because they are available, and there is cap space available THEN.


    Contracts are negotiated with the anticipation that the salary cap will escalate over the term of the contract.
    Occassionally, an agent asks for too large an escalation in salary over the years of the contract, and the player's performance doesn't improve, or the actual salary cap doesn't increase enough to pay previously signed contracts.

    So, several years after many free agents were signed in a wild spending spree, several players must be asked to renegotiate their contracts.
    Some hold to their position and force ownership to cut them or another player(s).
    Then, a cheaper replacement has to be signed, usually resulting in lost salary cap value due to signing bonuses which were not fully spread over the term of the cancelled contract.

    Finally, simple math.
    If the salary cap is 109M, and there are 43 players, the avg player salary must be 2.5M or less.
    If someone is overpaid, there is less money for quality backups, who will seek jobs on another team.





    Which is exactly why I see no problem with a player holding out. Teams are quick to renegotiate a contract due to a lack in production but will not renegotiate to compensate for an unexpected output of productivity.

    Basically you sign Matt Birk to 5 years when he is at the top of his game..... well the 4th year of his contract is worth 4 million but what is that? He isn't worth 4 million anymore? Well we better renegotiate that.

    Same scenerio, you sign Greg Blue to a minimum and he turns out to be great. He is putting up numbers akin to the pro bowlers in the league, but getting paid slick willy....only now it isn't lets renegotiate it is wow we have him under contract for 3 years for cheap and he can't do pooh about it, and if his contract runs out we can franchise him and at that time work out a deal with him when he is in his prime for 5 years backloaded, expecting his production will diminish and we can renegotiate or send him packing.

    Basic math tells us this is kaka del rio.
    This is why a team shouldn't negotiate a contract, with a player at the peak of his career productivity, that has salaries escalating into the future years above the expected percentage increase of the salary cap.
    If the contract had salaries of 1M, 2M, 3M, 4M and 5M, and a 8M signing bonus, but the player is at the peak of his career when he signs, the 4th and 5th yr salaries would be overpayment relative to performance level and the salary cap increases.

    Thankfully, Brzezinski thought these things through in designing contract terms, and the Vikings had to renegotiate only a few contracts each year.
    And, most player cuts due to performance-pay mismatches were due to performance/ attitude issues; e.g. Smoot, Wiggins, Culpepper.

    The current scheme used by the Vikings in free agency is to sign players BEFORE they hit their career peak perforamnce levels.
    Seeing that this sceme targets younger players who are (not yet) big name players, fans will over-react that the Vikings are 'tanking it' to move to LA, or will make some other uninformed criticism.
    When we stop to think about it, most folks behavior isn't perplexing after all !

  10. #20
    cajunvike's Avatar
    cajunvike is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Birk doesn't get contract extension

    "Purplexing" wrote:
    "Del" wrote:
    "Purplexing" wrote:
    This story should also point out why a well run front office doesn't throw money wildly at free agents just because they are available, and there is cap space available THEN.


    Contracts are negotiated with the anticipation that the salary cap will escalate over the term of the contract.
    Occassionally, an agent asks for too large an escalation in salary over the years of the contract, and the player's performance doesn't improve, or the actual salary cap doesn't increase enough to pay previously signed contracts.

    So, several years after many free agents were signed in a wild spending spree, several players must be asked to renegotiate their contracts.
    Some hold to their position and force ownership to cut them or another player(s).
    Then, a cheaper replacement has to be signed, usually resulting in lost salary cap value due to signing bonuses which were not fully spread over the term of the cancelled contract.

    Finally, simple math.
    If the salary cap is 109M, and there are 43 players, the avg player salary must be 2.5M or less.
    If someone is overpaid, there is less money for quality backups, who will seek jobs on another team.





    Which is exactly why I see no problem with a player holding out. Teams are quick to renegotiate a contract due to a lack in production but will not renegotiate to compensate for an unexpected output of productivity.

    Basically you sign Matt Birk to 5 years when he is at the top of his game..... well the 4th year of his contract is worth 4 million but what is that? He isn't worth 4 million anymore? Well we better renegotiate that.

    Same scenerio, you sign Greg Blue to a minimum and he turns out to be great. He is putting up numbers akin to the pro bowlers in the league, but getting paid slick willy....only now it isn't lets renegotiate it is wow we have him under contract for 3 years for cheap and he can't do pooh about it, and if his contract runs out we can franchise him and at that time work out a deal with him when he is in his prime for 5 years backloaded, expecting his production will diminish and we can renegotiate or send him packing.

    Basic math tells us this is kaka del rio.
    This is why a team shouldn't negotiate a contract, with a player at the peak of his career productivity, that has salaries escalating into the future years above the expected percentage increase of the salary cap.
    If the contract had salaries of 1M, 2M, 3M, 4M and 5M, and a 8M signing bonus, but the player is at the peak of his career when he signs, the 4th and 5th yr salaries would be overpayment relative to performance level and the salary cap increases.

    Thankfully, Brzezinski thought these things through in designing contract terms, and the Vikings had to renegotiate only a few contracts each year.
    And, most player cuts due to performance-pay mismatches were due to performance/ attitude issues; e.g. Smoot, Wiggins, Culpepper.

    The current scheme used by the Vikings in free agency is to sign players BEFORE they hit their career peak perforamnce levels.
    Seeing that this sceme targets younger players who are (not yet) big name players, fans will over-react that the Vikings are 'tanking it' to move to LA, or will make some other uninformed criticism.
    But the Vikings ARE tanking it to move to LA!!!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

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