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  1. #81
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Moss View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    yeah, we had a coverage liability for 8 years but a great tackler if a RB ran right at him.
    What in the world are you talking about?

    He was one of the best tacklers in the league for over a decade, the best tackling corner ever to play the game, AND and very good cover corner.
    His rep for being a good tackler comes from him needing to leave a very soft cushion and from letting so many passes be completed in front of him uncontested. Yeah he made lots of tackles but gave up a hell of a lot of ground in the process. We weren't near the upper end of passing yards allowed for the better part of the past 8 years for no reason.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    His rep for being a good tackler comes from him needing to leave a very soft cushion and from letting so many passes be completed in front of him uncontested. Yeah he made lots of tackles but gave up a hell of a lot of ground in the process. We weren't near the upper end of passing yards allowed for the better part of the past 8 years for no reason.
    That's not true at all. He lead all corners last year in tackles for a loss.... by a wide margin.

    Sometimes I wonder where you guys come up with this stuff.

    Antoine Winfield, Not Tracy Porter, Should Be Saints' 'Plan B' at CB | Bleacher Report

    When it comes to run-stop percentage, a Pro Football Focus statistic that tackles on passing plays that go for a loss, no cornerback in the NFL last season had a better stop percentage that Winfield.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Kiper: Te'o to the Bears -- but beware Vikings



    Kiper: Te'o to the Bears -- but beware Vikings | DailyHerald.com Blogs
    If we take Te'o with one of our first rounders I would be fine/happy. He is not my top choice but I am only an average football mind, so what do I know.

    However, if we trade up to leapfrog the Bears and grab Te'o, my faith in the F.O. will be shaken a bit. I simply have too many reservations about Te'o to warrant moving up in the draft to grab him.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    If we take Te'o with one of our first rounders I would be fine/happy. He is not my top choice but I am only an average football mind, so what do I know.

    However, if we trade up to leapfrog the Bears and grab Te'o, my faith in the F.O. will be shaken a bit. I simply have too many reservations about Te'o to warrant moving up in the draft to grab him.
    Agree 100%. I personally don't think we should draft Te'o at all... but with two first round picks, I wouldn't be too upset if we took him.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    That's not true at all. He lead all corners last year in tackles for a loss.... by a wide margin.

    Sometimes I wonder where you guys come up with this stuff.
    IDK, but you are using a bleacher report that is filled with errors as your support, so there is that. In that article it says
    When it comes to run-stop percentage, a Pro Football Focus statistic that tackles on passing plays that go for a loss, no cornerback in the NFL last season had a better stop percentage that Winfield.
    Unfortunately, that is NOT what the run-stop percentage is at all... According to Pro Football Focus, the run-stop percentage takes the number of running snaps the defensive players in on the field for and applies the number of times a tackle made by that player can be constituted a stop. It is NOT on passing plays, and it does NOT have to be a tackle for a loss (a 3rd and 5 where the tackle is made after 4 yards and they are still out of field goal range is considered a stop).

    Winfield has always been at the top of this list. He was #1 in both 2011 and 2012. I didn't look back much farther, but Winny has always been known for his ability against the run.

    PF's point was that Winny gets a lot of tackles because he leaves a cushion in the passing game, which leads to tackles in front of him. If we want to continue down the PFF stat route, let's look at their shutdown corner stat. This stat measures the impact of the yards given up by a CB in terms of first downs. This is the stat the bleacher report should have referenced if the author had any knowledge of the game. Here is the list:
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...d-cornerbacks/

    As you can see, Winfield was OK but not great (18th best out of all CBs). He was, however, the best CB we had on our team last year in this category. Kind of like being the shiniest turd in the toilet though...

    One thing to note - Both Robinson and Jefferson were among the worst in the league. Robinson was the 10th worst and Jefferson was the 15th. Robinson was a rookie who didn't really start picking up until late in the season, so I can understand it. There is no excuse for Jefferson though.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Mac D View Post
    Agree 100%. I personally don't think we should draft Te'o at all... but with two first round picks, I wouldn't be too upset if we took him.
    My sentiments exactly.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  7. #87
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    If we take Te'o with one of our first rounders I would be fine/happy. He is not my top choice but I am only an average football mind, so what do I know.

    However, if we trade up to leapfrog the Bears and grab Te'o, my faith in the F.O. will be shaken a bit. I simply have too many reservations about Te'o to warrant moving up in the draft to grab him.
    Now that Marrdro is gone you've gone from board guru to average football mind. That's shocking !
    My concern with T'eo is his ability to cover the center of the field in the cover 2, and run sideline to sideline; something Brinkley couldn't quite do.

    The Vikings need a MLB that is above average in the passing game when you consider they face Rodgers, Cutler, and Stafford, twice a year.

    If the Vikings take T'eo, I will remain skeptical but support it. But I agree, moving up to take T'eo would seem foolish.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    If we take Te'o with one of our first rounders I would be fine/happy. He is not my top choice but I am only an average football mind, so what do I know.

    However, if we trade up to leapfrog the Bears and grab Te'o, my faith in the F.O. will be shaken a bit. I simply have too many reservations about Te'o to warrant moving up in the draft to grab him.
    +1 for sure. There is also Ogletree, Minter, Brown, Reddick, Bostic...ie several MLBs with similar potential/risk.

    I'll even take that idea to the next level; given our plethora of missing starters at the moment and the depth at our positions of need, I don't see any first round guys that are really worth us moving up for in this draft. I'm all for spending some of the later picks to boost our mids up tho, cuz I feel the value at the top of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds could still be pretty enticing.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  9. #89
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    IDK, but you are using a bleacher report that is filled with errors as your support, so there is that. In that article it says

    Unfortunately, that is NOT what the run-stop percentage is at all... According to Pro Football Focus, the run-stop percentage takes the number of running snaps the defensive players in on the field for and applies the number of times a tackle made by that player can be constituted a stop. It is NOT on passing plays, and it does NOT have to be a tackle for a loss (a 3rd and 5 where the tackle is made after 4 yards and they are still out of field goal range is considered a stop).

    Winfield has always been at the top of this list. He was #1 in both 2011 and 2012. I didn't look back much farther, but Winny has always been known for his ability against the run.

    PF's point was that Winny gets a lot of tackles because he leaves a cushion in the passing game, which leads to tackles in front of him. If we want to continue down the PFF stat route, let's look at their shutdown corner stat. This stat measures the impact of the yards given up by a CB in terms of first downs. This is the stat the bleacher report should have referenced if the author had any knowledge of the game. Here is the list:
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...d-cornerbacks/

    As you can see, Winfield was OK but not great (18th best out of all CBs). He was, however, the best CB we had on our team last year in this category. Kind of like being the shiniest turd in the toilet though...

    One thing to note - Both Robinson and Jefferson were among the worst in the league. Robinson was the 10th worst and Jefferson was the 15th. Robinson was a rookie who didn't really start picking up until late in the season, so I can understand it. There is no excuse for Jefferson though.
    So, despite the article not being right... it's still correct that Winfield was the best run-stopping corner? Um, okay.

    Being the 18th CB in the league is hardly the "shiniest turd in the toilet..." as you so eloquently put it. Considering there are 64 starting CBs in the league, not even including teams that start with nickel sets... that would still put Winfield in the top of the league.

    And as much as I hate Bleacher Report, they are now the sports reporting website CNN uses instead of Sports Illustrated... so there's that.
    Last edited by C Mac D; 04-04-2013 at 11:28 AM.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegmavike View Post
    Now that Marrdro is gone you've gone from board guru to average football mind.
    Marrdro is gone?
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

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