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  1. #41
    VikesfaninWis's Avatar
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    What absolutely sucks as well is that for whatever reason the Vikings didn't really plan on having viable options when letting Winfield go. If the Vikings go into the season with Cook and Jefferson as the starting CB's, this team is in serious trouble. The DL better hope damn well that they can come up with some kind of system to get to the QB on a consistent basis, otherwise this is going to be a long year.

    It will be very hard to get everything that the Vikings need in the draft. Hard to imagine that they can get a starting WR, MLB, and CB out of this draft unless they have a 4 leaf clover up their asses. They can't go into the season with Jefferson and Cook as the starting CB's, it just can't happen.

  2. #42
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    I'm not thinking of the first two rounds here, but don't we have a need for a premier return man in this draft also? Who will be available in the later rounds that can fit that bill?
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  3. #43
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    Tavon Austin and Manti Te'o would be a perfect first round combination. I have a higher grade on Arthur Brown, but Manti Te'o fits our system perfectly.

    Sorry Rick! Keep up the good work.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by VikesfaninWis View Post
    What absolutely sucks as well is that for whatever reason the Vikings didn't really plan on having viable options when letting Winfield go. If the Vikings go into the season with Cook and Jefferson as the starting CB's, this team is in serious trouble. The DL better hope damn well that they can come up with some kind of system to get to the QB on a consistent basis, otherwise this is going to be a long year.

    It will be very hard to get everything that the Vikings need in the draft. Hard to imagine that they can get a starting WR, MLB, and CB out of this draft unless they have a 4 leaf clover up their asses. They can't go into the season with Jefferson and Cook as the starting CB's, it just can't happen.
    Considering that Robinson finished the season higher on the depth chart than Jefferson, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Cook and Jefferson probably won't be our starting CBs at the start of 2013 regardless of what happens in the draft....
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Welcome to the year 2013. where 6 Qbs threw for more than 4500 yards. You advice to build an elite defense goes against the transition the game has made. There are no elite defenses anymore.It's a fact that people have to ccome to terms with. You can have good defenses and ever great defenses but the day of the 2000 Ravens is over.

    Think about what you are asking. It's illogical to say, our offense will never be a great offense so we should just continue to build deffense. How do you think those great offenses became great? They were built. There is a misnomer that Vikings like to use in "ground and pound offense" When you are putrid on offense, your only hopes is to runt he ball and hope to keep it close. It's not a style of offense but more of a desperation move born out of nessascity. Yes we have AP and yes he is a work horse back capable of making 3 men miss and carrying 5 men into the endzone while the last 3 arm tackle him. However, think for a minute how much explosive he could be if he never had to see those fronts. The last time we had a capable WR, TE and a decent number 2, Peterson rushed for 18 TD while the offense was 2nd in scoring.

    I compare football to chess and boxing. Turtling in chess will simply get your pieces picked off 1 by 1 and in boxing a completely defensive fight rarely wins fights. In both activities, a balance of defense and offense is imperative. Additional, the ability to adjust to what you are given is the key to victory. If you build an offense based only on your ability to run, when you face a dominant run defense, you will have a very difficult time winning. We also draft Khalil last year, magically our oline went from problem to strenght. Everyone give Felton the credit but our Oline was damn good last year considering they faced tons of run blitzs.
    When you are bad at something you dont stick your head into the sand and pretend it isn't a problem. Our passing game being 31st is a HUGE problem. It is killing some of the great plays our defense is making and holding us back from being a great team.
    What you said is all fine and dandy and if we had the talent we had in 1998 then fuck yeah, air it out.

    But YOU need to look at the reality of what the FO is doing. I am not advocating that what the team is doing is what I want to see, but if you can honestly look at the fact that they signed Peterson to a 100 million dollar contract, drafted Ponder as the future franchise QB, signed a pro bowl FB to an extension, used a high 2nd pick on a TE, used a big FA contract on another and really have shown no desire to bring in any talent that is what you would refer to as a bona fide field stretcher and convince yourself that somehow, magically all of that is going to lead to a high powered pass centered offense then you must be on drugs.

    Is what they are doing right? Hell, who knows. Di I like having a low octane offense? No, not really. But then again I am not going to look at the roster we have and convince myself that if I bitch about it on a Vikings forum that somehow all of that talent they have assembled is suddenly going to ingest some magic fairy dust and become the second coming of the greatest show on turf.


    To buy into what you want to see in the offense it basically means they need to retool nearly every key skill position on offense.All that while trying to keep the defense intact.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=VikesfaninWis;1138436]I agree with a lot of this, but the NFL is a passing league now. These days even a very good defense is not likely to stop a high powered offense for 4 quarters. If GB had a shutdown type defense, they would win the f'n SB 4 out of 5 years just because they have a offense that can put up 30+ points on a weekly basis./QUOTE]

    Well, part of the deal with getting that offense is that you end up sacrificing the defense and while they did certainly win a SB recently, their defense was top rated that year and as soon as they lost some talent and the defense dropped in the rankings they have started to slip.

    I will wager that now that they are going to pay Rodgers 25 Million plus a year that the defense takes a big hit and once Fabio Jr gets his new contract that they win no more SB's. The same thing happened t the Patriots. While Brady is the best QB in history IMHO it was the defense they had that got them the SB's. Since the core of that defense depleted and was replaced with nobodies the team has not been able to win another SB. The Saints won a SB with a great offesne but they also had a great defense that year. Since then they maintained the offense but let the defense slip and so has their success. Same with the Steelers, the Giants and the Ravens.




    It absolutely f'n pains me to say that Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL. As much as I can't stand that team, or the players, you have to give Rodgers his respect, he is one hell of a QB. Of course we need to add to our defense just so opposing teams won't score against us in 3 plays or less on a consistent basis, but we also need a offense that can go toe to toe with other teams and hope that our defense can make a couple more plays than the opposing defense. Doesn't really matter what kind of defense you have if your offense is putting up low numbers week in and week out.[
    Yep, he has done well. BUT. he just put the Packers in a tough spot with his contract extension. Paying him that type of money is going to mean they need to cut back on a few other positions and that will hurt their depth. That will leave things for teams to exploit and it is going to hurt them,not help them.

    I truly believe that the dollars the elite QB's are commanding is going to cause a shift in the dynamic of the league and the next trend is going to be for teams to put together a more balanced roster that has more consistent talent that can exploit the hols in the rosters of teams with mega contract QB's and maybe we can be the team that starts that trend.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post

    Is what they are doing right? Hell, who knows. Di I like having a low octane offense? No, not really. But then again I am not going to look at the roster we have and convince myself that if I bitch about it on a Vikings forum that somehow all of that talent they have assembled is suddenly going to ingest some magic fairy dust and become the second coming of the greatest show on turf.
    Then why do you bitch?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #48
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Besides WR.... What do you want in the first two rounds.

    I'm not.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Welcome to the year 2013. where 6 Qbs threw for more than 4500 yards. You advice to build an elite defense goes against the transition the game has made. There are no elite defenses anymore.It's a fact that people have to ccome to terms with. You can have good defenses and ever great defenses but the day of the 2000 Ravens is over.

    Think about what you are asking. It's illogical to say, our offense will never be a great offense so we should just continue to build deffense. How do you think those great offenses became great? They were built. There is a misnomer that Vikings like to use in "ground and pound offense" When you are putrid on offense, your only hopes is to runt he ball and hope to keep it close. It's not a style of offense but more of a desperation move born out of nessascity. Yes we have AP and yes he is a work horse back capable of making 3 men miss and carrying 5 men into the endzone while the last 3 arm tackle him. However, think for a minute how much explosive he could be if he never had to see those fronts. The last time we had a capable WR, TE and a decent number 2, Peterson rushed for 18 TD while the offense was 2nd in scoring.

    I compare football to chess and boxing. Turtling in chess will simply get your pieces picked off 1 by 1 and in boxing a completely defensive fight rarely wins fights. In both activities, a balance of defense and offense is imperative. Additional, the ability to adjust to what you are given is the key to victory. If you build an offense based only on your ability to run, when you face a dominant run defense, you will have a very difficult time winning. We also draft Khalil last year, magically our oline went from problem to strenght. Everyone give Felton the credit but our Oline was damn good last year considering they faced tons of run blitzs.
    When you are bad at something you dont stick your head into the sand and pretend it isn't a problem. Our passing game being 31st is a HUGE problem. It is killing some of the great plays our defense is making and holding us back from being a great team.
    +1 So True.

    And some of you are missing the point and leaping to extremes...nobody is saying we need to alter our identity and become a chuck it deep early and often offense, just that we need some passing game in a league where all the rules favor passing in order to have any true chance at winning a championship. (RBs can't lower their heads!?!? Are you kidding me!?)

    Look at the Ravens and 49ers, both are old school, run time off the clock and play defense like us, but both also have young, up and coming QBs, and multiple, early draft picks and FA signings at WR and TE. The Ravens signed Boldin and Jones and drafted Smith, Pitta and Dickson in the first 2 or 3 rounds. The 49ers have 3 first round weapons in Crabtree, Vernon Davis and AJ Jenkins, and have traded for Boldin and signed Manningham.

    Yes, we also need defense. At the moment, starters are missing at CB, MLB, and kinda DT...but for the love of god, we can't go through another year with only one outside threat who is worth a spit! Its no good for the QB's confidence and its not helping us judge him correctly either.

    That said, I also don't want us to reach for 1 need when a good fit is sitting there at another either. If WRs go early and defense falls to us instead, fine, but the longer we wait to select a WR, the more picks I'll want to spend there, to backup our chances and make sure we find some difference maker somewhere.
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    Considering that Robinson finished the season higher on the depth chart than Jefferson, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Cook and Jefferson probably won't be our starting CBs at the start of 2013 regardless of what happens in the draft....
    That really isn't saying much. Robinson was a rookie and Jefferson was a castoff from Arizona. Unless Robinson makes huge strides between now and the start of the season, it would be a mistake going in with any 3 as the starters. I would have to say that we have probably the worst CB crew in the NFL at this point.

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