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  1. #21
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re:Berrian wants to get back to being big-play guy

    Overlord wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    Berrian was a bad signing to begin with.
    I strongly disagree. Berrian has not hurt the Vikings. He had a good year in 2008, and a very average year in 2009 (Seriously, the value over replacement statistics put him right at average).

    Does he have weaknesses? Absolutely. He drops more passes than he should and he is fragile. But when healthy he is an above average receiver and a good player for the Vikes. He was a good player at a position where the team desperately needed help in 2008, and he made a lot of big catches. He was an average player when the team was stronger in 2009.

    The thing folks really seem to not like is his big contract. Why? It doesn't cost me anything extra to watch him play. His contract hasn't kept the Vikes from bringing in other big time and big money players such as Jared Allen or Brett Favre. And it doesn't hamstring the organization in the future.

    He also was a good choice of the 'big name WRs' available when the Vikes signed him. The names that year were Moss, Berrian, Stallworth, Porter and Hackett. Moss wasn't really available to others (particularly a team that had run him out of town and had a bad QB situation), and those other three have been significantly worse than Berrian. That wasn't a particularly bad free agent class for wide receivers, the year before the big names were Curtis, Stallworth, and Wade. Curtis had one good year in Philly but fell off the map after that. Wade did an okay job for the Vikes, but is not as talented as Berrian

    Point being, this guy helps the team and is still young enough (29) to continue to do so for several more years. That's a good signing for the team and the fans, even if it costs Wilf some cash and even if Berrian never makes it into the Hall of Fame without buying a ticket.
    I agree...he isn't the worst signing we've made. But I do believe he's underperformed on his contract. He hasn't been what we'd hoped he would be.

    Caine

  2. #22
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re:Berrian wants to get back to being big-play guy

    If Berrian is fragile, what is Sidney Rice?

    -V-
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  3. #23
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    Re:Berrian wants to get back to being big-play guy

    Overlord wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    Berrian was a bad signing to begin with.
    I strongly disagree. Berrian has not hurt the Vikings. He had a good year in 2008, and a very average year in 2009 (Seriously, the value over replacement statistics put him right at average).

    Does he have weaknesses? Absolutely. He drops more passes than he should and he is fragile.
    Say it ain't so! :O


    Where's marty to pull the "Berrian had only 3 drops" stat? heh heh.

    But when healthy he is an above average receiver and a good player for the Vikes. He was a good player at a position where the team desperately needed help in 2008, and he made a lot of big catches. He was an average player when the team was stronger in 2009.
    Exactly. On a team of scrubs at WR, he stood out as easily the best. Last year, a combination of him being hurt, and having some playmakers took the attention away from him. We're ignoring he still had 600ish yards and 55 catches. That would be our leading receiver a few years ago.
    The thing folks really seem to not like is his big contract. Why? It doesn't cost me anything extra to watch him play. His contract hasn't kept the Vikes from bringing in other big time and big money players such as Jared Allen or Brett Favre. And it doesn't hamstring the organization in the future.
    Didn't someone point out that his contract was front-loaded, and we in fact are paying him a very modest salary? Not peanuts, but we're not really giving him a massive amount. And without a cap, really, who cares?

    He also was a good choice of the 'big name WRs' available when the Vikes signed him. The names that year were Moss, Berrian, Stallworth, Porter and Hackett. Moss wasn't really available to others (particularly a team that had run him out of town and had a bad QB situation), and those other three have been significantly worse than Berrian. That wasn't a particularly bad free agent class for wide receivers, the year before the big names were Curtis, Stallworth, and Wade. Curtis had one good year in Philly but fell off the map after that. Wade did an okay job for the Vikes, but is not as talented as Berrian

    Point being, this guy helps the team and is still young enough (29) to continue to do so for several more years. That's a good signing for the team and the fans, even if it costs Wilf some cash and even if Berrian never makes it into the Hall of Fame without buying a ticket.
    I agree with all of this though, he stays.

  4. #24
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    Re:Berrian wants to get back to being big-play guy

    Caine wrote:
    Overlord wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    Berrian was a bad signing to begin with.
    I strongly disagree. Berrian has not hurt the Vikings. He had a good year in 2008, and a very average year in 2009 (Seriously, the value over replacement statistics put him right at average).

    Does he have weaknesses? Absolutely. He drops more passes than he should and he is fragile. But when healthy he is an above average receiver and a good player for the Vikes. He was a good player at a position where the team desperately needed help in 2008, and he made a lot of big catches. He was an average player when the team was stronger in 2009.

    The thing folks really seem to not like is his big contract. Why? It doesn't cost me anything extra to watch him play. His contract hasn't kept the Vikes from bringing in other big time and big money players such as Jared Allen or Brett Favre. And it doesn't hamstring the organization in the future.

    He also was a good choice of the 'big name WRs' available when the Vikes signed him. The names that year were Moss, Berrian, Stallworth, Porter and Hackett. Moss wasn't really available to others (particularly a team that had run him out of town and had a bad QB situation), and those other three have been significantly worse than Berrian. That wasn't a particularly bad free agent class for wide receivers, the year before the big names were Curtis, Stallworth, and Wade. Curtis had one good year in Philly but fell off the map after that. Wade did an okay job for the Vikes, but is not as talented as Berrian

    Point being, this guy helps the team and is still young enough (29) to continue to do so for several more years. That's a good signing for the team and the fans, even if it costs Wilf some cash and even if Berrian never makes it into the Hall of Fame without buying a ticket.
    I agree...he isn't the worst signing we've made. But I do believe he's underperformed on his contract. He hasn't been what we'd hoped he would be.

    Caine
    And that is my point.

    The signing of Berrian is a bad one. You really needed a receiver at this point. The contract you signed him to is.

    There's a reason the Bears didn't resign him for a ridiculous amount of money after their SB season while he was their only WR. He's just not that good.

    But that doesn't make him a bad receiver, of course. He's a good deep threat. Stretching the field while you have Harvin and Rice running around helps a lot.
    "You can look pretty smart if you have a knack for planning ahead. That's Ted. The Packers are in good hands." - Ron Wolf


  5. #25
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    Re:Berrian wants to get back to being big-play guy

    Rockmolder wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Overlord wrote:
    Rockmolder wrote:
    Berrian was a bad signing to begin with.
    I strongly disagree. Berrian has not hurt the Vikings. He had a good year in 2008, and a very average year in 2009 (Seriously, the value over replacement statistics put him right at average).

    Does he have weaknesses? Absolutely. He drops more passes than he should and he is fragile. But when healthy he is an above average receiver and a good player for the Vikes. He was a good player at a position where the team desperately needed help in 2008, and he made a lot of big catches. He was an average player when the team was stronger in 2009.

    The thing folks really seem to not like is his big contract. Why? It doesn't cost me anything extra to watch him play. His contract hasn't kept the Vikes from bringing in other big time and big money players such as Jared Allen or Brett Favre. And it doesn't hamstring the organization in the future.

    He also was a good choice of the 'big name WRs' available when the Vikes signed him. The names that year were Moss, Berrian, Stallworth, Porter and Hackett. Moss wasn't really available to others (particularly a team that had run him out of town and had a bad QB situation), and those other three have been significantly worse than Berrian. That wasn't a particularly bad free agent class for wide receivers, the year before the big names were Curtis, Stallworth, and Wade. Curtis had one good year in Philly but fell off the map after that. Wade did an okay job for the Vikes, but is not as talented as Berrian

    Point being, this guy helps the team and is still young enough (29) to continue to do so for several more years. That's a good signing for the team and the fans, even if it costs Wilf some cash and even if Berrian never makes it into the Hall of Fame without buying a ticket.
    I agree...he isn't the worst signing we've made. But I do believe he's underperformed on his contract. He hasn't been what we'd hoped he would be.

    Caine
    And that is my point.

    The signing of Berrian is a bad one. You really needed a receiver at this point. The contract you signed him to is.

    There's a reason the Bears didn't resign him for a ridiculous amount of money after their SB season while he was their only WR. He's just not that good.

    But that doesn't make him a bad receiver, of course. He's a good deep threat. Stretching the field while you have Harvin and Rice running around helps a lot.
    He did catch a TD in both games against the packers last year. That alone is worth 48million.

  6. #26
    jargomcfargo's Avatar
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    Re:Berrian wants to get back to being big-play guy

    V-Unit wrote:
    If Berrian is fragile, what is Sidney Rice?

    -V-
    LOL! Isn't that the truth.

    Let's say it another way. If Berrian can stay healthy an entire season he should have a very good year.
    No he's not the best wide receiver in the league, but he's pretty good when healthy.

    This year he has not had any hamstring or toe issues in camp so I expect a fast start. And he will likely play a larger role with Sidney ailing.
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  7. #27
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    Re:Berrian wants to get back to being big-play guy

    Rockmolder wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Overlord wrote:
    ...
    Point being, this guy helps the team and is still young enough (29) to continue to do so for several more years. That's a good signing for the team and the fans, even if it costs Wilf some cash and even if Berrian never makes it into the Hall of Fame without buying a ticket.
    I agree...he isn't the worst signing we've made. But I do believe he's underperformed on his contract. He hasn't been what we'd hoped he would be.

    Caine
    And that is my point.

    The signing of Berrian is a bad one. You really needed a receiver at this point. The contract you signed him to is.

    There's a reason the Bears didn't resign him for a ridiculous amount of money after their SB season while he was their only WR. He's just not that good.

    But that doesn't make him a bad receiver, of course. He's a good deep threat. Stretching the field while you have Harvin and Rice running around helps a lot.
    Maybe I'm arguing semantics here, but I think a 'bad signing' is one that the team shouldn't have made.

    The Vikings made the right move by signing Berrian. He's helped the team. They are a better team with him on the roster. His contract, though it may be a little high compared to his performance, has not hurt the team. His play on the field has helped the team.

    The Bears have been out of the playoffs the past two years and their offense has been bad. The Vikings have won the division two years in a row. Saying the move was bad because the Bears didn't make it does not lend much support to the argument given the relative success of the two franchises after the move was made. Of course there are other reasons for the Vikings relative success, but appealing to the expertise of the Bears' front office as compared to the Vikings' guys doesn't make a lot of sense.

    So if all you're really saying is that his contract is higher than his production so far... sure, though I probably think it is more reasonable than most here. But if you think the Vikes shouldn't have signed him at that price, I disagree. They paid what they had to pay him to bring him in, and it has helped the team.

    Thank you Zygi Wilf.
    When the age of the Vikings came to a close, they must have sensed it. Probably, they gathered together one evening, slapped each other on the back and said, "Hey, good job." - Jack Handey [Deep Thoughts]

  8. #28
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Berrian wants to get back to being big-play guy

    RK. wrote:
    Not dropping the ball would be a good start for him. :dry:
    And having a QB that could get it to him would help as well.

    On a side note, love your new avatar. :silly:
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #29
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Berrian wants to get back to being big-play guy

    jargomcfargo wrote:
    V-Unit wrote:
    If Berrian is fragile, what is Sidney Rice?

    -V-
    LOL! Isn't that the truth.

    Let's say it another way. If Berrian can stay healthy an entire season he should have a very good year.
    No he's not the best wide receiver in the league, but he's pretty good when healthy.

    This year he has not had any hamstring or toe issues in camp so I expect a fast start. And he will likely play a larger role with Sidney ailing.
    I just gotta raise the bullshit flag one more time on this.

    Sure he was injured last year. I think both knees. But he was also well enough to run slot routes. You don't do that with bad knees, hammies or ankles.

    His drastic drop off in yards per catch can only be attributed to one thing.....The staff didn't use him that way.

    I am not gonna give the excuse because most of you will bring up 3 or 4 plays, but you know were I am going with this.......
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #30
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    Re:Berrian wants to get back to being big-play guy

    In the end...Berrian can say that he wants to be the man. Talk is cheap, lets see it. Also, Berrian's home run talent was more apparent when teams were loading the box with 8 guys, run blitzing etc. It left the bomb open from time to time and gave him the opportunity to exploit play action and man coverage.

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