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  1. #221
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:BENGALS POST GAME DISCUSSION

    ultravikingfan wrote:
    Deeper balls have a higher % of imcomplete vs complete?

    Get the fuck outta here!

    If it was the opposite, screw the short shit...toss da' bombs!!!

    This is one of the most entertaining threads ever. Stats, links and some pasted definitions.

    To sum it all up: We are 11-2! We are on the verge of clinching a first round bye. Do we have to have the best record in the NFL? No. Are we better than last year? A lot.

    I think anyone with any sense would agree that all this team was missing was a QB. Did not have to be a Manning or Brady. just a good game manager that makes few mistakes. And look, we got that one. Shit, stats can even prove it (for the Madden crowd).

    Stats are a nice prize at the end of the season, or career, if they are good. But arguing the completion % on deep balls is futile. We should be happy we have someone who can at least get it there. Where's the stat for passes threaded to the receiver with pristine accuracy? Where is the stat for going through progressions and hitting the check down at the perfect time? Where is the stat for locker room leadership? Where is the stat for mentoring younger players? There isn't one for any of these.

    What the Viking's got was a QB was all the unmeasurables that Favre provides a team. Sure, when he was not a Viking I hated the guy...fiercely! But, I have always had the utmost respect for what he can do and has done. I can really understand the "god-like" Packer and media praise that Favre gets; he is just an amazing player, a "big kid" and one helluva leader on the field.

    While some may look at the stat sheet I look at the standings and possible opponents in the playoffs. I want this team to have a fricken ring. I do not care if they sign Tim Couch, Tony Mandarich or Troy Williamson. If they get the job done and bring a ring to the team and fans of this great team...I will piss myself.

    So let's drop the "I am right, you are wrong" silliness. Let's cheer this team onto victory!
    Agree on all points, especially the "Right/Wrong" point.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #222
    NodakPaul's Avatar
    NodakPaul is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:BENGALS POST GAME DISCUSSION

    Marrdro wrote:
    NodakPaul wrote:
    OK, so there is a lot of talk about Favre and his accuracy deep - so I thought I would post some stats that I gleaned from another site. It is a pay site, so I will NOT repost it word for word.

    Basically, they defines deep passes at 16 - 26 yards, and bombs as 26+. Then they looked at the completion percentage of QBs with deep passes or bombs. In this list, Brees leads the way, completing 62% of his passes over 16 yards. This is a very impressive %. Favre doesn't even break the top ten.

    However, the same site also pointed out that short passing games are more prevalent in the NFL, and teams that rely on the long ball much more than short passing attacks would logically have a better completion % for the long ball (because more plays are drawn up for it and it is a bigger slice of their offensive pie). That being said, they also came up with an adjusted completion percentage. This was to "get an even better idea of which quarterbacks are most accurate no matter the distance". They adjusted the completion percentage based on the distance of each pass. Short completions were worth less, while deep completions (especially bombs) were worth more. Here is the top five in adjusted completion percentage:

    Adjusted Completion Percentage
    Rank Player Team C% Adj C%
    1 B. Favre MIN 70.4% 70.6%
    2 D. Brees NO 68.3% 70.5%
    3 B. Roethlisberger PIT 69.1% 69.9%
    4 P. Manning IND 69.8% 69.1%
    5 M. Schaub HOU 67.7% 68.9%

    The bottom line is that Favre is currently very successful in teh scheme we are asking him to play. Sometimes he will have a bad game, like in AZ. Believe it or not, so will every other QB - even Brees. But overall, Favre is a success. Complaining that he isn't as accurate with the deep ball in a run heavy WCO is silly - especially when he is extremely accurate in the shorter ranger. You don't need 26 yards for a first down. You need 10, and Favre consistently gets those 10 yards.

    With that being said, I am going to excuse myself from this thread, as like so many others it has become derailed by people attempting to do the impossible... I'll wait until the Carolina Post game thread to see what nonsense Marrdro can bring to the table about Favre then.
    This is a really good post that has alot of very good information in it, however, it kindof steers you away from the original point of discussion without adressing it (as I have done) and that is,

    a. We are still seeing stacked boxes.
    b. Most on here tried to convince a select few of us that the Noodle would be able to exploit the Veritical passing aspect that our previous QB's couldn't so that the "Stacked Boxes" would go away.
    c. The WCO, although it is predominantly predicated on the shorter, high percentage routes, does in fact use the deep ball as well.

    Again, one more time for possible penetration, I laud the Noodle for staying in the scheme. I am willing to admit I didn't think he had it in him.

    What I won't do is let all of you off the hook who championed, to the point most of you were saying that the Noodle would be calling the plays despite Bevell and the Chiller, that he would get it done in the deep ball arena.

    Sooooo, go ahead and post good stuff like this. You know I love it, problem is, just like the politicians, you are steering the discussion away from the point you don't want to address.

    As my good friend Nodak said, on to bigger and better things.

    By the way, anyone watch Peyton last night? 12 for 12 in the first half. Absolutely amazing.
    a. Yes we are still seeing some stacked boxes. Not every play, for sure, but still more often thatn I expected.
    b. Favre IS exploiting the stacked boxed. Hence one of the top passing attacks in the NFL, and an 11-2 record.
    c. Correct. We are predominantly using the higher percentage shorter routes, and we are also mixing in the deep ball, with success at both.

    What point don't I want to address? I am perfectly willing to address any point, and in fact going back a few pages in the very thread I see that there are three other posters who have said the same thing about the stacked boxes.

    Did I think that teams would stop stacking the box if Favre continued to burn them? Yup. Turns out I was wrong. Despite Favre absolutely killing teams through the air, they would rather take their chances getting beat by Favre than by AD.

    And please show me a single solitary post where ANYBODY said that Favre would be calling the plays.

    You are grasping here Marrdro. Go back and read ejmat's very good post regarding your ridiculous crusade against Favre.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  3. #223
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re:BENGALS POST GAME DISCUSSION

    Marrdro wrote:
    NodakPaul wrote:
    Zeus wrote:
    NodakPaul wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    20 yards isn't the league benchmark for deep balls my friend.

    40+ is. And as I pointed out yesterday, that he is ranked 9th this year is a think I give him props for, but a few of those can be attributed to YAC (Put them in the count) as well as some fine ass catches by our WR's.
    Show me where 40+ is the league standard. From everything I see the league seems to think it is 20+. Go back and look at your play by play. When the pass travels more than 20 yards through the air, it is labeled as a deep pass. And FYI, if it is a short pass with a lot of YAC, is is labeled as such.

    Also, in one breath you say that Favre's long passing yard completions are attributed to great YAC, and in the other you say that YAC equates to a QB hitting a WR in stride. So which is it? If YAC is an indicator of a QB hitting a WR in stride, then all those YAC deep completions should be a plus for Favre, not a minus.
    I thought you retired from this thread?

    =Z=
    LOL. I tried. I wanted to, I really did. I don't know why I come back - it is so pointless now.

    I think I keep coming back because I actually like Marrdro, and it is frustrating for me to see him do this to himself... Sooner or later I need to realize that the best course of action is probably to just walk away and not even get baited into a "discussion".
    Do what to myself?

    Make a valid arguement that you don't agree with? I kindof like how you just glossed over all the actual plays from the "Play-by-play" by the way.
    What valid argument have you made? Seriously.

  4. #224
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re:BENGALS POST GAME DISCUSSION

    Marrdro wrote:
    NodakPaul wrote:
    OK, so there is a lot of talk about Favre and his accuracy deep - so I thought I would post some stats that I gleaned from another site. It is a pay site, so I will NOT repost it word for word.

    Basically, they defines deep passes at 16 - 26 yards, and bombs as 26+. Then they looked at the completion percentage of QBs with deep passes or bombs. In this list, Brees leads the way, completing 62% of his passes over 16 yards. This is a very impressive %. Favre doesn't even break the top ten.

    However, the same site also pointed out that short passing games are more prevalent in the NFL, and teams that rely on the long ball much more than short passing attacks would logically have a better completion % for the long ball (because more plays are drawn up for it and it is a bigger slice of their offensive pie). That being said, they also came up with an adjusted completion percentage. This was to "get an even better idea of which quarterbacks are most accurate no matter the distance". They adjusted the completion percentage based on the distance of each pass. Short completions were worth less, while deep completions (especially bombs) were worth more. Here is the top five in adjusted completion percentage:

    Adjusted Completion Percentage
    Rank Player Team C% Adj C%
    1 B. Favre MIN 70.4% 70.6%
    2 D. Brees NO 68.3% 70.5%
    3 B. Roethlisberger PIT 69.1% 69.9%
    4 P. Manning IND 69.8% 69.1%
    5 M. Schaub HOU 67.7% 68.9%

    The bottom line is that Favre is currently very successful in teh scheme we are asking him to play. Sometimes he will have a bad game, like in AZ. Believe it or not, so will every other QB - even Brees. But overall, Favre is a success. Complaining that he isn't as accurate with the deep ball in a run heavy WCO is silly - especially when he is extremely accurate in the shorter ranger. You don't need 26 yards for a first down. You need 10, and Favre consistently gets those 10 yards.

    With that being said, I am going to excuse myself from this thread, as like so many others it has become derailed by people attempting to do the impossible... I'll wait until the Carolina Post game thread to see what nonsense Marrdro can bring to the table about Favre then.
    This is a really good post that has alot of very good information in it, however, it kindof steers you away from the original point of discussion without adressing it (as I have done) and that is,

    a. We are still seeing stacked boxes.
    b. Most on here tried to convince a select few of us that the Noodle would be able to exploit the Veritical passing aspect that our previous QB's couldn't so that the "Stacked Boxes" would go away.
    c. The WCO, although it is predominantly predicated on the shorter, high percentage routes, does in fact use the deep ball as well.

    Again, one more time for possible penetration, I laud the Noodle for staying in the scheme. I am willing to admit I didn't think he had it in him.

    What I won't do is let all of you off the hook who championed, to the point most of you were saying that the Noodle would be calling the plays despite Bevell and the Chiller, that he would get it done in the deep ball arena.

    Sooooo, go ahead and post good stuff like this. You know I love it, problem is, just like the politicians, you are steering the discussion away from the point you don't want to address.

    As my good friend Nodak said, on to bigger and better things.

    By the way, anyone watch Peyton last night? 12 for 12 in the first half. Absolutely amazing.
    I believe we are still seeing stacked boxes because people know Berrian is injured. Rice does not have the speed to bring people out. That takes care of a,b, and c. Anything else? This has nothing to do with Favre.

    Interesting comment about Manning being amazing. Gee I never heard you say anything like that about Favre after that Seattle game. That there my friend is why nobody takes you seriously. BTW Favre is the QB of your "favorite" team.

    Favre: 88% 214 Yards 4TDs 0INTs
    Manning: 77% 308 Yards 4TDs 1INT

    Where is that rolling eyes smiley? **snicker**

  5. #225
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re:BENGALS POST GAME DISCUSSION

    Marrdro wrote:
    By the way, anyone watch Peyton last night? 12 for 12 in the first half. Absolutely amazing.
    Anyone notice Peyton in the second half? 11 for 18 with a pick... Boy he must suck! Noodle Arm!
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #226
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re:BENGALS POST GAME DISCUSSION

    NodakPaul wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    By the way, anyone watch Peyton last night? 12 for 12 in the first half. Absolutely amazing.
    Anyone notice Peyton in the second half? 11 for 18 with a pick... Boy he must suck! Noodle Arm!
    LOL he is falling apart.

  7. #227
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
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    Re:BENGALS POST GAME DISCUSSION

    OMG Marty has lost it!!

    Still love ya big guy but.. Just wow.. WOW

  8. #228
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:BENGALS POST GAME DISCUSSION

    V4L wrote:
    OMG Marty has lost it!!

    Still love ya big guy but.. Just wow.. WOW
    ....snicker......

    Someone was beeeyatching that this thread was only 4 pages long. LOL, look at it now.

    gregair13 wrote:

    I like how after a loss the post game thread made 17 pages before you could blink an eye. And this topic, after a win, is not even at page 4 yet.

    ultravikingfan wrote:
    That's because Marr has not come by with with all of his analysis.
    I wouldn' want anyone to think that I wasn't always ready to rise to the challenge.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #229
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:BENGALS POST GAME DISCUSSION

    marstc09 wrote:
    NodakPaul wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    By the way, anyone watch Peyton last night? 12 for 12 in the first half. Absolutely amazing.
    Anyone notice Peyton in the second half? 11 for 18 with a pick... Boy he must suck! Noodle Arm!
    LOL he is falling apart.
    LOL, well played. :P
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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