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  1. #71
    ItalianStallion's Avatar
    ItalianStallion is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Bears' fans are bitter

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    [quote author=ItalianStallion link=topic=40788.msg693475#msg693475 date=1198037908]
    I don't get how the intentional grounding call was a bad one.
    He was in the pocket and threw it to where no receiver was withing 10 yards.
    He had Kevin Williams around his leg when he threw it, which is why the trajectory was way off.
    There was a WR about 15 yards down from where the ball landed (I believe it was berrian, but I will have to look to be sure).
    KW was pulling him as he threw and the throw went errant.

    Besides, don't you think that if he was really trying to intentionally ground the ball, he wouldn't have thrown it in the middle of three defenders?
    Hmm, so because he was in the process of being sacked and threw it 15 yards away from a receiver...it's not intentional grounding?

    It doesn't matter whether or not he made an attempt to get it to a receiver, the fact is is there was nobody even remotely close.

    So.. in the pocket...Check
    Threw it where no receivers were...check
    Threw it to avoid a sack...check

    Why is this not intentional grounding?
    Because "he meant to throw it 15 yards closer to a WR"?
    That doesn't factor into the rule, otherwise everytime a QB was about to be sacked he could throw it 15 yards away from a receiver and claim it was just an errant throw.

    And for all the Birk apologists, he had a terrible game.
    On the two sacks he just moved out of the way and let Urlacher run right by him.
    On the first one he helped double team Hutchinson's man rather than touch Urlacher, on the second one he took Hutchinson's man (who consequently had nobody to block) and let Urlacher go past him like a turnstile again.
    Not to mention he repeatly got his a$$ handed to him on running plays by a rookie DT.
    Of course he did.
    Both of those plays it was the RB's job to pick up the MLB.
    True Nodak but on at least one of them AP had no chance to block that in time.
    The OL is supposed to atleast block somewhat.
    AP is 6 yards back.
    On that sack where Birk touched Urlacher and kept going left, AP had no time to react and make a block.
    Birk wanted to help Hutch double team a person that just came in off the street versus standing his lane and blocking a probowl caliber LB.
    OK, if we are gonna go down this line of thinking, then lets blame TJ (as I did earlier) as well.
    Do you think he recognized the MLB blitz and had the RB adjust for it.

    Comeon guys, this isn't backyard football.
    Those things are actual line adjustments that start with the C and then the QB as they read the D just before the snap.

    The correct read should have been for the C to stay at home and take the Blitzer from the A gaps and the RB assist with that if a multiple blitz package (both A gaps) or to assist the T (either side) if the TE went into the route.

    Primarily you will see the C and the RB take this guy on and if the C has the blitzer under control the RB will drift out into the area vacated by the MLB and recieve the checkdown pass if the WR or TE's aren't open.

    Long story short, the C (first read), the QB (second read) screwed the pooch on this.
    [/quote]

    No doubt, as a RB you're rarely assigned someone to block, but rather you pick uip those left unblocked (going from the middle to the outside).
    It may very well have been his assignment to block the MLB, I don't presume to know the play call or line call.
    What is clear is that both times Birk blocked someone who didn't need to be blocked by him (ie. Hutch could have managed fine).
    As I stated before, you block inside first because that is the shortest path to the QB, both times Birk didn't even breathe on him as he ran by.


    I m like a Ja Rule poster, cause I'm off the wall.

  2. #72
    Schutz's Avatar
    Schutz is offline Team Alumni
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    Re: Bears' fans are bitter

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    [quote author=ItalianStallion link=topic=40788.msg693475#msg693475 date=1198037908]
    I don't get how the intentional grounding call was a bad one.
    He was in the pocket and threw it to where no receiver was withing 10 yards.
    He had Kevin Williams around his leg when he threw it, which is why the trajectory was way off.
    There was a WR about 15 yards down from where the ball landed (I believe it was berrian, but I will have to look to be sure).
    KW was pulling him as he threw and the throw went errant.

    Besides, don't you think that if he was really trying to intentionally ground the ball, he wouldn't have thrown it in the middle of three defenders?
    Hmm, so because he was in the process of being sacked and threw it 15 yards away from a receiver...it's not intentional grounding?

    It doesn't matter whether or not he made an attempt to get it to a receiver, the fact is is there was nobody even remotely close.

    So.. in the pocket...Check
    Threw it where no receivers were...check
    Threw it to avoid a sack...check

    Why is this not intentional grounding?
    Because "he meant to throw it 15 yards closer to a WR"?
    That doesn't factor into the rule, otherwise everytime a QB was about to be sacked he could throw it 15 yards away from a receiver and claim it was just an errant throw.

    And for all the Birk apologists, he had a terrible game.
    On the two sacks he just moved out of the way and let Urlacher run right by him.
    On the first one he helped double team Hutchinson's man rather than touch Urlacher, on the second one he took Hutchinson's man (who consequently had nobody to block) and let Urlacher go past him like a turnstile again.
    Not to mention he repeatly got his a$$ handed to him on running plays by a rookie DT.
    Of course he did.
    Both of those plays it was the RB's job to pick up the MLB.
    True Nodak but on at least one of them AP had no chance to block that in time.
    The OL is supposed to atleast block somewhat.
    AP is 6 yards back.
    On that sack where Birk touched Urlacher and kept going left, AP had no time to react and make a block.
    Birk wanted to help Hutch double team a person that just came in off the street versus standing his lane and blocking a probowl caliber LB.
    OK, if we are gonna go down this line of thinking, then lets blame TJ (as I did earlier) as well.
    Do you think he recognized the MLB blitz and had the RB adjust for it.

    Comeon guys, this isn't backyard football.
    Those things are actual line adjustments that start with the C and then the QB as they read the D just before the snap.

    The correct read should have been for the C to stay at home and take the Blitzer from the A gaps and the RB assist with that if a multiple blitz package (both A gaps) or to assist the T (either side) if the TE went into the route.

    Primarily you will see the C and the RB take this guy on and if the C has the blitzer under control the RB will drift out into the area vacated by the MLB and recieve the checkdown pass if the WR or TE's aren't open.

    Long story short, the C (first read), the QB (second read) screwed the pooch on this.
    [/quote]

    :'( That was one of the most well put arguments I've seen on this site.
    Cheers Marr, and God bless!

  3. #73
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Bears' fans are bitter

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    I don't get how the intentional grounding call was a bad one.
    He was in the pocket and threw it to where no receiver was withing 10 yards.
    He had Kevin Williams around his leg when he threw it, which is why the trajectory was way off.
    There was a WR about 15 yards down from where the ball landed (I believe it was berrian, but I will have to look to be sure).
    KW was pulling him as he threw and the throw went errant.

    Besides, don't you think that if he was really trying to intentionally ground the ball, he wouldn't have thrown it in the middle of three defenders?
    Hmm, so because he was in the process of being sacked and threw it 15 yards away from a receiver...it's not intentional grounding?

    It doesn't matter whether or not he made an attempt to get it to a receiver, the fact is is there was nobody even remotely close.

    So.. in the pocket...Check
    Threw it where no receivers were...check
    Threw it to avoid a sack...check

    Why is this not intentional grounding?
    Because "he meant to throw it 15 yards closer to a WR"?
    That doesn't factor into the rule, otherwise everytime a QB was about to be sacked he could throw it 15 yards away from a receiver and claim it was just an errant throw.

    And for all the Birk apologists, he had a terrible game.
    On the two sacks he just moved out of the way and let Urlacher run right by him.
    On the first one he helped double team Hutchinson's man rather than touch Urlacher, on the second one he took Hutchinson's man (who consequently had nobody to block) and let Urlacher go past him like a turnstile again.
    Not to mention he repeatly got his a$$ handed to him on running plays by a rookie DT.
    Of course he did.
    Both of those plays it was the RB's job to pick up the MLB.
    True Nodak but on at least one of them AP had no chance to block that in time.
    The OL is supposed to atleast block somewhat.
    AP is 6 yards back.
    On that sack where Birk touched Urlacher and kept going left, AP had no time to react and make a block.
    Birk wanted to help Hutch double team a person that just came in off the street versus standing his lane and blocking a probowl caliber LB.
    I wanted to point something out this morning.
    I didn't watch the entire replay last night on the NFLN however I did manage to see the replay of the intentional grounding call.
    Now that I've seen the replay there is no way that call should have been made.
    I think his throw could have been altered becasue of K Will's sack attempt.
    I could definately see how it could have been difficult getting enough on the ball to get it to Davis.
    Bad call but again had no bearing on the game.

    As far as the other calls there were just as many holds that weren't called against the Bears.
    I saw Kreutz flat out tackle a pass rusher.
    No call.
    There was at least one clip during one of the Bear runbacks that wasn't called.

  4. #74
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Bears' fans are bitter

    "Schutz" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    [quote author=NodakPaul link=topic=40788.msg693710#msg693710 date=1198081921]
    [quote author=ItalianStallion link=topic=40788.msg693475#msg693475 date=1198037908]
    I don't get how the intentional grounding call was a bad one.
    He was in the pocket and threw it to where no receiver was withing 10 yards.
    He had Kevin Williams around his leg when he threw it, which is why the trajectory was way off.
    There was a WR about 15 yards down from where the ball landed (I believe it was berrian, but I will have to look to be sure).
    KW was pulling him as he threw and the throw went errant.

    Besides, don't you think that if he was really trying to intentionally ground the ball, he wouldn't have thrown it in the middle of three defenders?
    Hmm, so because he was in the process of being sacked and threw it 15 yards away from a receiver...it's not intentional grounding?

    It doesn't matter whether or not he made an attempt to get it to a receiver, the fact is is there was nobody even remotely close.

    So.. in the pocket...Check
    Threw it where no receivers were...check
    Threw it to avoid a sack...check

    Why is this not intentional grounding?
    Because "he meant to throw it 15 yards closer to a WR"?
    That doesn't factor into the rule, otherwise everytime a QB was about to be sacked he could throw it 15 yards away from a receiver and claim it was just an errant throw.

    And for all the Birk apologists, he had a terrible game.
    On the two sacks he just moved out of the way and let Urlacher run right by him.
    On the first one he helped double team Hutchinson's man rather than touch Urlacher, on the second one he took Hutchinson's man (who consequently had nobody to block) and let Urlacher go past him like a turnstile again.
    Not to mention he repeatly got his a$$ handed to him on running plays by a rookie DT.
    Of course he did.
    Both of those plays it was the RB's job to pick up the MLB.
    True Nodak but on at least one of them AP had no chance to block that in time.
    The OL is supposed to atleast block somewhat.
    AP is 6 yards back.
    On that sack where Birk touched Urlacher and kept going left, AP had no time to react and make a block.
    Birk wanted to help Hutch double team a person that just came in off the street versus standing his lane and blocking a probowl caliber LB.
    OK, if we are gonna go down this line of thinking, then lets blame TJ (as I did earlier) as well.
    Do you think he recognized the MLB blitz and had the RB adjust for it.

    Comeon guys, this isn't backyard football.
    Those things are actual line adjustments that start with the C and then the QB as they read the D just before the snap.

    The correct read should have been for the C to stay at home and take the Blitzer from the A gaps and the RB assist with that if a multiple blitz package (both A gaps) or to assist the T (either side) if the TE went into the route.

    Primarily you will see the C and the RB take this guy on and if the C has the blitzer under control the RB will drift out into the area vacated by the MLB and recieve the checkdown pass if the WR or TE's aren't open.

    Long story short, the C (first read), the QB (second read) screwed the pooch on this.
    [/quote]

    :'( That was one of the most well put arguments I've seen on this site.
    Cheers Marr, and God bless!
    [/quote]
    Thanks my friend.

    After watching the re-air last night I stand by my assesment.
    1 sack thier was no RB in the backfield and on the other AD was there but on his way out the A gap to as a reciever and didn't even think about blocking.

    Both gaffs can be attributed to both the C and QB miss reading the Defensive scheme.
    Lets hope the Skins don't read this thread.
    They might figure out what we know.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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