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  1. #21
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098886
    Yep.

    He is a good bit player but he doesn't have the marbles to be the big dog and that is what he has to be to get the big pay day he wants. Once he figures out he is a bit player who deserves a bit contract he will either settle in and have an OK career or he will get pissed and switch over to being a bit player in the boxing industry.
    Whats lost in all of this is that he is coming off his first contract and still could get better than he is. Mix in the statistics that bare that out (which Caine so casually ignored and jumped onto the Kirwan article) and it makes on one "Ponder" why the staff isn't going to pay him what he has coming and seem to be willing to let him walk.

    Again, I still say it comes down to the little point I keep making....He probably won't make it through the life of a contract at LDE.

    I, for one, sure hope Griff is ready to take the helm at LDE. We already saw Rob try it and found out he can't hold up against the run.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098908
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098886
    Yep.

    He is a good bit player but he doesn't have the marbles to be the big dog and that is what he has to be to get the big pay day he wants. Once he figures out he is a bit player who deserves a bit contract he will either settle in and have an OK career or he will get pissed and switch over to being a bit player in the boxing industry.
    Whats lost in all of this is that he is coming off his first contract and still could get better than he is. Mix in the statistics that bare that out (which Caine so casually ignored and jumped onto the Kirwan article) and it makes on one "Ponder" why the staff isn't going to pay him what he has coming and seem to be willing to let him walk.

    Again, I still say it comes down to the little point I keep making....He probably won't make it through the life of a contract at LDE.

    I, for one, sure hope Griff is ready to take the helm at LDE. We already saw Rob try it and found out he can't hold up against the run.
    He might get marginally better but he won't get exponentially better and unless he goes to Detroit he probably won't be playing on a line that has 3 other pro bowl caliber players on it and that is going to make it much harder to maintain his gaudy statistics.


    He probably won't make it through the life of a RDE contract if he signs any more boxing contracts.:P

  3. #23
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098907
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098880
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098861
    Group A
    Jared Allen, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): He has a non-stop motor and recorded 40 sacks in the last three years. He also defended 13 passes and forced nine fumbles over that span, with most of that production coming while rushing the passer. Only DeMarcus Ware has more sacks (46.5) since 2008.
    Group E
    Ray Edwards, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): A potential free agent with 21.5 sacks over the past three seasons. The question is can he do as well without Jared Allen on the opposite side.
    Vets still rank as top pass rushers but young faces closing gap
    So, even Pat Kirwan agrees that having Jared Allen on the opposite side of the line contributes to Rays success....as does everyone else except Marrdro.
    Show me one place were I have said otherwise.

    I think you will see that I've repeatedly said the following:

    a. Phat Pat isn't that dominant anymore, especially in the passing game.
    b. K-dubb isn't that dominant anymore. Actually believe its because he quit juicing.
    c. JA disappears at times, gets handled one on one more than you guys want to admit and gets caught up field rushing the QB on running plays.
    d. Ray gets doubled more than you guys want to admit. Used the Dallas game as a prime example.

    But I don't think you can find anything that states what you just said.

    As with our good friend PF, it seems like you have a case of the i_bleed_purple and his consistent twisting (completely misunderstanding) of what I said

    ........snip..........
    In short, he's Doug Sutherland. He's a GOOD player, but the true power on that line came from somewhere else...

    Caine
    Makes one wonder if you aren't just a bit overly worried that he will get a huge contract and he will move on and he will play well. Then your one and only point on Ray will go out the window now won't it.

    Its OK, I won't hack on you that happens.......snicker.....
    1: You and several others have REPEATEDLY tried to downplay the significance of Ray playing with Pro-Bowlers. Trying to act now like you haven't is a bit disingenuous.

    2: Why would I "worry" about being wrong about Ray? Using the Marrdro model I'll simply claim that I was misinterpreted, revise my stance accordingly, and continue to plow ahead blindly...then I'll threaten to become a fan of another team for good measure.

    Or, I couldn't care less if Ray moves on. I couldn't care less if he gets a big contract. I think he WILL get the contract, but I DON'T think he'll be as good as hoped. I haven't EVER backed off that mark. I ahve never hedged my bets on this point.

    If equating him with Sutherland somehow makes you think I'm elevating my opinion of Ray, then you need to review your Viking history. Sutherland was good, but Eller, Page, and Marshall made that line special.

    Caine

  4. #24
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098911
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098908
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1098886
    Yep.

    He is a good bit player but he doesn't have the marbles to be the big dog and that is what he has to be to get the big pay day he wants. Once he figures out he is a bit player who deserves a bit contract he will either settle in and have an OK career or he will get pissed and switch over to being a bit player in the boxing industry.
    Whats lost in all of this is that he is coming off his first contract and still could get better than he is. Mix in the statistics that bare that out (which Caine so casually ignored and jumped onto the Kirwan article) and it makes on one "Ponder" why the staff isn't going to pay him what he has coming and seem to be willing to let him walk.

    Again, I still say it comes down to the little point I keep making....He probably won't make it through the life of a contract at LDE.

    I, for one, sure hope Griff is ready to take the helm at LDE. We already saw Rob try it and found out he can't hold up against the run.
    He might get marginally better but he won't get exponentially better and unless he goes to Detroit he probably won't be playing on a line that has 3 other pro bowl caliber players on it and that is going to make it much harder to maintain his gaudy statistics.


    He probably won't make it through the life of a RDE contract if he signs any more boxing contracts.:P
    Even if he gets marginally better he would then be ranked number 1 next year instead of number 2.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098925
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098907
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098880
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098861
    Group A
    Jared Allen, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): He has a non-stop motor and recorded 40 sacks in the last three years. He also defended 13 passes and forced nine fumbles over that span, with most of that production coming while rushing the passer. Only DeMarcus Ware has more sacks (46.5) since 2008.
    Group E
    Ray Edwards, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): A potential free agent with 21.5 sacks over the past three seasons. The question is can he do as well without Jared Allen on the opposite side.
    Vets still rank as top pass rushers but young faces closing gap
    So, even Pat Kirwan agrees that having Jared Allen on the opposite side of the line contributes to Rays success....as does everyone else except Marrdro.
    Show me one place were I have said otherwise.

    I think you will see that I've repeatedly said the following:

    a. Phat Pat isn't that dominant anymore, especially in the passing game.
    b. K-dubb isn't that dominant anymore. Actually believe its because he quit juicing.
    c. JA disappears at times, gets handled one on one more than you guys want to admit and gets caught up field rushing the QB on running plays.
    d. Ray gets doubled more than you guys want to admit. Used the Dallas game as a prime example.

    But I don't think you can find anything that states what you just said.

    As with our good friend PF, it seems like you have a case of the i_bleed_purple and his consistent twisting (completely misunderstanding) of what I said

    ........snip..........
    In short, he's Doug Sutherland. He's a GOOD player, but the true power on that line came from somewhere else...

    Caine
    Makes one wonder if you aren't just a bit overly worried that he will get a huge contract and he will move on and he will play well. Then your one and only point on Ray will go out the window now won't it.

    Its OK, I won't hack on you that happens.......snicker.....
    1: You and several others have REPEATEDLY tried to downplay the significance of Ray playing with Pro-Bowlers. Trying to act now like you haven't is a bit disingenuous.

    2: Why would I "worry" about being wrong about Ray? Using the Marrdro model I'll simply claim that I was misinterpreted, revise my stance accordingly, and continue to plow ahead blindly...then I'll threaten to become a fan of another team for good measure.

    Or, I couldn't care less if Ray moves on. I couldn't care less if he gets a big contract. I think he WILL get the contract, but I DON'T think he'll be as good as hoped. I haven't EVER backed off that mark. I ahve never hedged my bets on this point.

    If equating him with Sutherland somehow makes you think I'm elevating my opinion of Ray, then you need to review your Viking history. Sutherland was good, but Eller, Page, and Marshall made that line special.

    Caine
    I ask again, show me one instance were I've downplayed the other DLmen? As I stated above, you can't but you can find the stuff I admit to discussing.

    Again, I don't think our DL has played that well over the last 2 years, especially last year. Hell, I've even been pretty vocal about wanting to upgrade the DT (0/1 tech) for 3 years.

    If you believe that is downplaying their impact, then I guess I will have to concede the discussion point.

    Unwillingly, though.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Lets put it this way, Edwards is the Gary Larsen of our Front-4.

    Playing with three all-pro players, he's just along for the ride.

    At the end of the day, when you think of the Purple People Eaters, you think of Alan Page, Carl Eller and Jim Marshall. That Larsen guy was pretty good too, but the other three were on a whole other level.

    Unfortunately, aside from his rookie season< Larsen never played anywhere else, so It's hard to say how he would have performed if he didn't play beside three hall of fame calibre players. I suspect not as well.

  7. #27
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098931
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098925
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098907
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098880
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098861
    Group A
    Jared Allen, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): He has a non-stop motor and recorded 40 sacks in the last three years. He also defended 13 passes and forced nine fumbles over that span, with most of that production coming while rushing the passer. Only DeMarcus Ware has more sacks (46.5) since 2008.
    Group E
    Ray Edwards, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): A potential free agent with 21.5 sacks over the past three seasons. The question is can he do as well without Jared Allen on the opposite side.
    Vets still rank as top pass rushers but young faces closing gap
    So, even Pat Kirwan agrees that having Jared Allen on the opposite side of the line contributes to Rays success....as does everyone else except Marrdro.
    Show me one place were I have said otherwise.

    I think you will see that I've repeatedly said the following:

    a. Phat Pat isn't that dominant anymore, especially in the passing game.
    b. K-dubb isn't that dominant anymore. Actually believe its because he quit juicing.
    c. JA disappears at times, gets handled one on one more than you guys want to admit and gets caught up field rushing the QB on running plays.
    d. Ray gets doubled more than you guys want to admit. Used the Dallas game as a prime example.

    But I don't think you can find anything that states what you just said.

    As with our good friend PF, it seems like you have a case of the i_bleed_purple and his consistent twisting (completely misunderstanding) of what I said

    ........snip..........
    In short, he's Doug Sutherland. He's a GOOD player, but the true power on that line came from somewhere else...

    Caine
    Makes one wonder if you aren't just a bit overly worried that he will get a huge contract and he will move on and he will play well. Then your one and only point on Ray will go out the window now won't it.

    Its OK, I won't hack on you that happens.......snicker.....
    1: You and several others have REPEATEDLY tried to downplay the significance of Ray playing with Pro-Bowlers. Trying to act now like you haven't is a bit disingenuous.

    2: Why would I "worry" about being wrong about Ray? Using the Marrdro model I'll simply claim that I was misinterpreted, revise my stance accordingly, and continue to plow ahead blindly...then I'll threaten to become a fan of another team for good measure.

    Or, I couldn't care less if Ray moves on. I couldn't care less if he gets a big contract. I think he WILL get the contract, but I DON'T think he'll be as good as hoped. I haven't EVER backed off that mark. I ahve never hedged my bets on this point.

    If equating him with Sutherland somehow makes you think I'm elevating my opinion of Ray, then you need to review your Viking history. Sutherland was good, but Eller, Page, and Marshall made that line special.

    Caine
    I ask again, show me one instance were I've downplayed the other DLmen? As I stated above, you can't but you can find the stuff I admit to discussing.

    Again, I don't think our DL has played that well over the last 2 years, especially last year. Hell, I've even been pretty vocal about wanting to upgrade the DT (0/1 tech) for 3 years.

    If you believe that is downplaying their impact, then I guess I will have to concede the discussion point.

    Unwillingly, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro
    To sit here and keep saying he is riding the coat tails of Phat Pat (took alot of reps off/Maybe he was helping from the sidelines), K-will (disappeared in the playoffs along with JA) is kindof ignoring the actual facts about what was going on.
    From: http://www.purplepride.org/forum/2-vikings-fan-forum/1047608-is-it-just-me-or-is-edwards-a-real-jackass?limit=15&start=30. Post #40

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1050063
    ejmat wrote:
    gagarr wrote:
    Didn't Ray say after Allen came he was going to set the all time sack record for a season?

    Well, if he does that he will GET PAID double next year what he would have gotten paid this year.

    So Ray, it's simple, make yourself irresistable and the $$$ will come.
    Exactly. He has all the opportunity available to him. He is on a line with 2 players that consistently make the probowl and another that has made the probowl and plays like he could make it every year.
    Do I need to put his stats up here again. I think those are a bit more relevant than some skewed probowl voting.
    From: http://www.purplepride.org/forum/2-vikings-fan-forum/1047608-is-it-just-me-or-is-edwards-a-real-jackass?limit=15&start=180

    post 189

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1050073
    ejmat wrote:
    So you don't think his stats are skewed? First, they are unofficial statistics. Second, the fact he plays on a line of 4 in which he is 4th best. You can post those stats in every post you like. It doesn't mean they tell the entire story and it doesn't mean they don't come with causual affects.
    Nope, they aren't. In fact, if you match them (site for site) you will see they are pretty consistent across the board.

    Even though he isn't ranked up there with the sack leaders (RDE's by the way) he sure gets alot of pressure and hits on QB's as a LDE.

    Take him and put him on a team that will use him as a RDE were his first reaction/read is rush the QB and then play the run instead of play the run as his first reaction/read and rush the QB second and I suspect those "Sack" numbers everyone puts so much credence to would go up as well.

    Lets not forget.....He is still maturing and is gonna only get better.

    In short, your stance that he is only as good as he is, is because of the DL he is playing on is just crazy talk.
    Post 192 of the same page.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro
    If Ray only looks good because of the players around him, how do you account for Ray getting more double teams in the playoffs than JA?

    I bet Dcoords don't sit over there and say, "Don't worry about Edwards, he only leads the league in QB pressures and QB hits because the rest of the line is getting doubled."

    (Sarcasim alert)

    If you have the means, I recommend you go back and look at how many times the TE stayed with the RT this year when it came to Ray and blocking. When teams gave help on JA's side, it was mostly just a RB.
    from: http://www.purplepride.org/forum/2-vikings-fan-forum/1047608-is-it-just-me-or-is-edwards-a-real-jackass?limit=15&start=195

    Post #202

    That enough for ya, Marty?

    Caine

  8. #28
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    [/quote]
    Show me one place were I have said otherwise.

    I think you will see that I've repeatedly said the following:

    a. Phat Pat isn't that dominant anymore, especially in the passing game.
    b. K-dubb isn't that dominant anymore. Actually believe its because he quit juicing.
    c. JA disappears at times, gets handled one on one more than you guys want to admit and gets caught up field rushing the QB on running plays.
    d. Ray gets doubled more than you guys want to admit. Used the Dallas game as a prime example.

    But I don't think you can find anything that states what you just said.

    As with our good friend PF, it seems like you have a case of the i_bleed_purple and his consistent twisting (completely misunderstanding) of what I said


    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro
    To sit here and keep saying he is riding the coat tails of Phat Pat (took alot of reps off/Maybe he was helping from the sidelines), K-will (disappeared in the playoffs along with JA) is kindof ignoring the actual facts about what was going on.
    Am I wrong here? Look at the stats for those two? Again, the middle of our DL sucks and does not help when it comes to pressure on the QB but in no way equates to me saying that Edwards gets his because those two are there.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1050063
    Do I need to put his stats up here again. I think those are a bit more relevant than some skewed probowl voting.
    What?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1050073
    ejmat wrote:
    So you don't think his stats are skewed? First, they are unofficial statistics. Second, the fact he plays on a line of 4 in which he is 4th best. You can post those stats in every post you like. It doesn't mean they tell the entire story and it doesn't mean they don't come with causual affects.
    Nope, they aren't. In fact, if you match them (site for site) you will see they are pretty consistent across the board.

    Even though he isn't ranked up there with the sack leaders (RDE's by the way) he sure gets alot of pressure and hits on QB's as a LDE.

    Take him and put him on a team that will use him as a RDE were his first reaction/read is rush the QB and then play the run instead of play the run as his first reaction/read and rush the QB second and I suspect those "Sack" numbers everyone puts so much credence to would go up as well.

    Lets not forget.....He is still maturing and is gonna only get better.

    In short, your stance that he is only as good as he is, is because of the DL he is playing on is just crazy talk.
    Again, not a diss on the players he is with. This was about him moving back to RDE were his first step is to the QB instead of his first step as a LDE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro
    If Ray only looks good because of the players around him, how do you account for Ray getting more double teams in the playoffs than JA?

    I bet Dcoords don't sit over there and say, "Don't worry about Edwards, he only leads the league in QB pressures and QB hits because the rest of the line is getting doubled."

    (Sarcasim alert)

    If you have the means, I recommend you go back and look at how many times the TE stayed with the RT this year when it came to Ray and blocking. When teams gave help on JA's side, it was mostly just a RB.
    Again, discussion about the point of JA disappearing. Doesn't take away from the DL play. Hacks on JA for disappearing.


    That enough for ya, Marty?

    Caine
    Comeon, you gotta try better. Those are right inline with my points I just said.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098953
    Comeon, you gotta try better. Those are right inline with my points I just said.
    yeah Caine, you know actual posts he made, and statistical proof is not good enough for Marty. You need something a little more... Irrational.

  10. #30
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1098955
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098953
    Comeon, you gotta try better. Those are right inline with my points I just said.
    yeah Caine, you know actual posts he made, and statistical proof is not good enough for Marty. You need something a little more... Irrational.
    LOL, he did nothing but post posts I've made in the past that dealt with the items I listed (in red) above.

    As my good friend Caine once said, "I make alot of posts on here. Someone can take almost any one of them and make them fit their point".
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