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  1. #11
    marshallvike's Avatar
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098798
    NOTE: To be FAIR, Ray has never stated how much he wants...only that he wants to be paid more than his back up (Which is both fair and deserved). The problem lies in the fact that this is the second consecutive year he's made noise about wanting more money, and the IMPRESSION he's given is that he wants a LOT of money.

    Also, he's made a lot of comments about not wanting to play here, both this year and last, for "less than he's worth", which has really set a lot of people off against him (Myself included).

    Again, Ray is a solid player. He's one of the better LDE's in the game. But he's not proven himself to be an Elite player, and from how he's talked - and based upon who his agent is - many of us expect that he will price himself out of Minnesota.

    Caine
    Good post Caine. I have been a Ray supporter, but it is annoying to continually hear him talk about it. He seems to think more of his ability thn even his backers do. Even if he thinks he is an elite player, keep that shit behind the scenes or you risk alienating the people who really pay your salary.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  2. #12
    Knight of God is offline Waterboy
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Thanks guys. I hope things get better. My wife is always in a better mood when the Vikings are winning. I had hoped that Favre would go out winning and was ticked with what happened to Moss. Last year was a confusing year.

    One thing that I said the last two years is that the left side needed some help. I watch most of the games and never really saw him do much.

    The ATL board was all hyped up about getting Edwards and I said, "Whoa! I don't even want him in Purple. Why would I want him in Falcons Red???" Trust me guys, I have had to explain over and over that Edwards isn't a guy to get excited about and with Allen and the Williams Wall you better had get 8 sacks. No avail, I'm seen as just being mean about it.

    Thank you guys for the honesty, its what I thought. He's okay but nothing to cheer about.

    Thanks again.
    None

  3. #13
    gregair13's Avatar
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Give us some secondary help and you can have him
    We're bringing purple back.

  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    One thing you find on here my friend is that most of the posters on here place value on a player only on the basic of stats. In this case, sacks, when in fact a DE is graded out on several factors when it comes to worth.

    I think that if Ray would have been allowed to stay at RDE for a team that had a good DL his sack totals would have been higher. Instead, because he is a LDE on a line that has is first read as "Run", second read as "contain/seal the end" and third read as "Sack the QB" his sack numbers are down.

    But if you take all 3 read/reacts and then look at his numbers in pressures you will see he grades out pretty damn high as a LDE and if you look at it with the idea that he is actually a RDE beefed up to play LDE that stat is even more impressive.

    As I said in a previous post, most won't agree with me on that statement so check this little article out......

    Three Years of Pass Rushing Productivity: Edge Rushers


    Pass Rushing Productivity, Edge Rushers, Top 20, 2010
    1 Tamba Hali OLB KC 583 103 14.07
    2 Charles Johnson DE CAR 481 81 13.25
    3 Ray Edwards DE MIN 416 69 12.98
    Pass Rushing Productivity, Edge Rushers, Top 20, 2008-2010
    Rank Player Pos. Team Pass Rushing Snaps Total QB Disruptions PRP
    1 John Abraham DE ATL 1239 194 12.49
    2 Dwight Freeney DE IND 1417 214 11.98
    3 James Harrison OLB PIT 1339 193 11.61
    4 Lamarr Woodley OLB PIT 1346 193 11.55
    5 DeMarcus Ware OLB DAL 1626 227 11.24
    6 Tamba Hali OLB KC 1466 209 11.22
    7 Chris Clemons DE SEA 910 129 11.21
    8 Charles Johnson DE CAR 1096 149 10.72
    9 Matt Roth OLB CLV 773 105 10.64
    10 Robert Mathis DE IND 1368 182 10.60
    11 Ray Edwards DE MIN 1468 197 10.52



    One has to wonder about comments like "he only is good because of the other 3 DLmen". If that is the case, why aren't those 3 on these lists ahead of Ray?

    Other rushers that seem to face doubles like JA seem to get their numbers.

    Something to ponder my friend as you weight stats vs opinions.

    When its all said and done, I don't think the Vikes should sign Ray to a long term contract. It isn't because of productivity or because he runs his mouth. Its because he is a RDE who has beefed up to LDE. If he remains at the LDE position I don't think he will play out the life of the contract.

    Any team, however, who signs him to a big deal and lets him move back to his natural position of RDE (slims down again) will probably see the benifits of that move.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    In Ray's defense, he is still on his 4th round rookie contract which he has way out-performed...he does deserve more money. And the kid is one hell of an athlete and committed to being in ridiculous shape. I saw something a year or two ago and his fat% was inhuman, like less than 3%?

    Yeah, Marrdro you got a good point there...might be exciting to see him as a primary rusher from the Right End, or possibly mixing it up and rushing from the left side sometimes too. I also wonder what he might do in a 3-4 as a primary outside rusher (OLB) who got moved around a bunch!!?!

    But, I don't think he needs to lose any weight, he is pretty much the same size as Allen and hasn't shown any ill-effects such as injuries or loss of speed.

    I also agree that he's not doing himself any favors by bitching to the media. Looking at our draft and the resigning of Robison seems to point to Ray moving on and us spending our big contract bucks elsewhere...like on Rice and/or a vet QB if the lockout lingers on into TC or preseason. Being a media whore might drive some teams away, and to get the biggest bucks, you want competition at bidding time!
    Control the line, control the time, and give your D a chance to shine!!

    "Balance it on end and thats the third side of the coin!!" -wookiefoot

  6. #16
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "mountainviking" #1098857
    In Ray's defense, he is still on his 4th round rookie contract which he has way out-performed...he does deserve more money. And the kid is one hell of an athlete and committed to being in ridiculous shape. I saw something a year or two ago and his fat% was inhuman, like less than 3%?

    Yeah, Marrdro you got a good point there...might be exciting to see him as a primary rusher from the Right End, or possibly mixing it up and rushing from the left side sometimes too. I also wonder what he might do in a 3-4 as a primary outside rusher (OLB) who got moved around a bunch!!?!

    But, I don't think he needs to lose any weight, he is pretty much the same size as Allen and hasn't shown any ill-effects such as injuries or loss of speed.

    I also agree that he's not doing himself any favors by bitching to the media. Looking at our draft and the resigning of Robison seems to point to Ray moving on and us spending our big contract bucks elsewhere...like on Rice and/or a vet QB if the lockout lingers on into TC or preseason. Being a media whore might drive some teams away, and to get the biggest bucks, you want competition at bidding time!
    Hmmmm, OLB ehhhhh. Interesting idea. Never thought about that.

    He seems to have the ability to read/react but I wonder about his speed.

    Again, interesting.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #17
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Group A
    Jared Allen, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): He has a non-stop motor and recorded 40 sacks in the last three years. He also defended 13 passes and forced nine fumbles over that span, with most of that production coming while rushing the passer. Only DeMarcus Ware has more sacks (46.5) since 2008.
    Group E
    Ray Edwards, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): A potential free agent with 21.5 sacks over the past three seasons. The question is can he do as well without Jared Allen on the opposite side.
    Vets still rank as top pass rushers but young faces closing gap
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #18
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098861
    Group A
    Jared Allen, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): He has a non-stop motor and recorded 40 sacks in the last three years. He also defended 13 passes and forced nine fumbles over that span, with most of that production coming while rushing the passer. Only DeMarcus Ware has more sacks (46.5) since 2008.
    Group E
    Ray Edwards, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): A potential free agent with 21.5 sacks over the past three seasons. The question is can he do as well without Jared Allen on the opposite side.
    Vets still rank as top pass rushers but young faces closing gap
    So, even Pat Kirwan agrees that having Jared Allen on the opposite side of the line contributes to Rays success....as does everyone else except Marrdro.

    Again, we'll see what happens. I remember when Alvin Harper (WR, Dallas) tried to parlay his success into a big FA contract...success derived primarily from who he played with...he bombed horribly in Tampa.

    The NFL is full of stories like that. A guy makes a huge impact, and everyone thinks it's all about HIM. They conveniently forget all the other Pro-Bowlers on that unit.

    That's how I see Ray. He's done real well being a member of a loaded line. While those other guys are being schemed for, he's managed to achieve some individual success. And his stats reflect that (Despite Marrdro claiming they don't).

    The question is, what happens when he DOESN'T have a loaded line? What happens when HE becomes the Heavy Hitter? Does he stand up, or does he crumble?

    To me, the fact that he really didn't distinguish himself last season - while the rest of the Defense was faltering - indicates that he's more a product of the system he's playing in rather than an individual achieving on a superior level on his own merits.

    In short, he's Doug Sutherland. He's a GOOD player, but the true power on that line came from somewhere else...

    Caine

  9. #19
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098880
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098861
    Group A
    Jared Allen, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): He has a non-stop motor and recorded 40 sacks in the last three years. He also defended 13 passes and forced nine fumbles over that span, with most of that production coming while rushing the passer. Only DeMarcus Ware has more sacks (46.5) since 2008.
    Group E
    Ray Edwards, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): A potential free agent with 21.5 sacks over the past three seasons. The question is can he do as well without Jared Allen on the opposite side.
    Vets still rank as top pass rushers but young faces closing gap
    So, even Pat Kirwan agrees that having Jared Allen on the opposite side of the line contributes to Rays success....as does everyone else except Marrdro.

    Again, we'll see what happens. I remember when Alvin Harper (WR, Dallas) tried to parlay his success into a big FA contract...success derived primarily from who he played with...he bombed horribly in Tampa.

    The NFL is full of stories like that. A guy makes a huge impact, and everyone thinks it's all about HIM. They conveniently forget all the other Pro-Bowlers on that unit.

    That's how I see Ray. He's done real well being a member of a loaded line. While those other guys are being schemed for, he's managed to achieve some individual success. And his stats reflect that (Despite Marrdro claiming they don't).

    The question is, what happens when he DOESN'T have a loaded line? What happens when HE becomes the Heavy Hitter? Does he stand up, or does he crumble?

    To me, the fact that he really didn't distinguish himself last season - while the rest of the Defense was faltering - indicates that he's more a product of the system he's playing in rather than an individual achieving on a superior level on his own merits.

    In short, he's Doug Sutherland. He's a GOOD player, but the true power on that line came from somewhere else...

    Caine
    Yep.

    He is a good bit player but he doesn't have the marbles to be the big dog and that is what he has to be to get the big pay day he wants. Once he figures out he is a bit player who deserves a bit contract he will either settle in and have an OK career or he will get pissed and switch over to being a bit player in the boxing industry.

  10. #20
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Atlanta Falcon Fan: Question About Ray Edwards

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1098880
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1098861
    Group A
    Jared Allen, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): He has a non-stop motor and recorded 40 sacks in the last three years. He also defended 13 passes and forced nine fumbles over that span, with most of that production coming while rushing the passer. Only DeMarcus Ware has more sacks (46.5) since 2008.
    Group E
    Ray Edwards, 4-3 DE, Vikings (>): A potential free agent with 21.5 sacks over the past three seasons. The question is can he do as well without Jared Allen on the opposite side.
    Vets still rank as top pass rushers but young faces closing gap
    So, even Pat Kirwan agrees that having Jared Allen on the opposite side of the line contributes to Rays success....as does everyone else except Marrdro.
    Show me one place were I have said otherwise.

    I think you will see that I've repeatedly said the following:

    a. Phat Pat isn't that dominant anymore, especially in the passing game.
    b. K-dubb isn't that dominant anymore. Actually believe its because he quit juicing.
    c. JA disappears at times, gets handled one on one more than you guys want to admit and gets caught up field rushing the QB on running plays.
    d. Ray gets doubled more than you guys want to admit. Used the Dallas game as a prime example.

    But I don't think you can find anything that states what you just said.

    As with our good friend PF, it seems like you have a case of the i_bleed_purple and his consistent twisting (completely misunderstanding) of what I said

    ........snip..........
    In short, he's Doug Sutherland. He's a GOOD player, but the true power on that line came from somewhere else...

    Caine
    Makes one wonder if you aren't just a bit overly worried that he will get a huge contract and he will move on and he will play well. Then your one and only point on Ray will go out the window now won't it.

    Its OK, I won't hack on you that happens.......snicker.....
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

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