Anyone else think he's gone?

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Originally Posted by smegmavike

Always a big difference between a rookie contract and a free agent or veteran contract.
The next contract Percy signs will be substatially larger than the first.

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That depends largely on who the FA veteran is. Carlson's value IMO, was never near what we paid for him.

That may be more true now with the new rookie salaries in place, but not at the time he was signed.

I think Spielman could have prevented a lot of the venom, as VG calls it, by recognizing Harvin's value & working out an extension prior to the season. I think he could have given him the extension he wanted and kicked in a modest salary increase, made him happy and prevented some of that venom.

Now I believe it's going to be a lot harder & costly to try & do so.

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Originally Posted by vikinggreg

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Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

There are fans on a Steelers site putting out there that there should be a swap of Harvin and Wallace. I would be good with that.

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Wallace is a free agent next year and Harvin still has a year left on his contract

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How would that impact a trade if it were done before the SB?

I really believe Harvin is better for the offense than Wallace but then again I really think Harvin could be more explosive on a team without AP where he could be used in the backfield more often. Imagine him as a tailback and also running screen passes and such out of the backfield.

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Originally Posted by Caine

Why does he "DESERVE" it?

He misses games every year, including 7 this season.

He has already held out once (ending his hold out after only a week, but the precedent is already there).

He's already hinted that if he's not given a BIG money deal, he'll hold out next season too.

Meanwhile, Adrian Peterson is quietly delivering the most inspiring performance that any football player EVER has achieved.

Harvin is undeniably talented. He's also undeniably the only receiver we have who's worth a crap. But that does NOT mean he deserves "whatever he wants".

Harvin should feel ashamed of himself right now. I'd simply ask him to look Peterson in the eye right now and say, "I'm giving 100% too", then we can talk about renegotiation. If Harvin could sack-up like Peterson does EVERY SINGLE WEEK, he'd be AMAZING.

But he's too much about HARVIN.

IMO, we trade him off. He's talented, but he's probably worth more on the block than he is on the sidelines.

Caine

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I think this is great perspective Caine.

There just seems to be a cloud of uncertainty around Harvin.

I simply love his toughness on the field, and, frankly, his productivity. But, most of your points are spot on. I would love to have dinner with Frazier, or, someone on the inside, to hear more about Harvin's unpredictable behavior.

That said, I would speculate that the supposed yelling match between Harvin and Frazier, when he was put on IR, was because Harvin wanted to play. Not defending the was he handled the situation, just pointing out that his approach was most likely due to a strong desire to contribute to the Team.

Now, related to whether or not I think he's gonna be or should be gone. I think the Vikes, in particular, Spielman, drew a line...a necessary line IMHO, regarding renegotiating a contract with TWO years left. That is a very slippery slope and a line that I think should be avoided. He does have one year left, there is always the Franchise tag, and, he's one of our best players. I think he will be on the roster at the beginning of 2013. Does he want to be a Viking...I'm not sure...that's part of the cloud of uncertainty I mentioned before.

Lots of speculation about a straight up trade to the Steelers for Wallace. To me, that's intriguing on many levels. #1 - he is one of the fastest, if not, the fastest WR in the League. #2 - his contribution to the offense, unlike Harvin's, doesn't take any carries away from Peterson (think about it), and, #3 - if a trade becomes necessary (due to Harvin's position with Spielman), this would place him in the AFC. Let me be clear, I don't necessarily want this to happen, I just think it IS intriguing.

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Originally Posted by Purple Floyd

How would that impact a trade if it were done before the SB?

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Well there was a trade deadline back on Nov 1st and there aren't any trades until the beginning of the new season now in March and Wallace would be a free agent at that time so I would think that would severly linit a trade.

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Originally Posted by Caine

Let's not forget his abortive holdout, and the thinly veiled threat to do it again.

HOW he plays - which is awesome - doesn't make him a "TEAM GUY".

Peterson is awesome, and he's a TEAM guy.

Harvin seems to be a bit more about Harvin.

Look, I wish like HELL that he would stay. I LOVE watching him play. I LOVE having him in purple. He's an AMAZING talent, and he adds a desperately needed dimension to our offense.

But I can't shake the FEELING that this may not be where HE wants to be. That he's surveyed the landscape of the NFL and realized that not only can he make a LOT more money elsewhere, but he can wind up on a better Offense doing so. And if he's eyeing the exit sign, then the COST to keep him becomes prohibitive.

Let's face it, he's going to be EXPENSIVE. And we have a LOT of needs. He might be more valuable to us, in the long term, on the trade block.

Unless, of course, he decides that this is where he wants to be, and doesn't price himself to the point where we can't bring in the help we need.

Caine

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I don't blame him one bit for talking holdout. Look at what he gets paid versus what he does for us on the field.

I agree with your statement about how he will be expensive, but I dont agree that we have ALOT of needs. Sure we have some holes to fill and one of them happens to be wr, so to me it makes no sense at all to trade away a damn good wr instead of paying Harvin.

We don't need to be looking for two wr's this offseason. And personally there is not another wr in the league I want playing Harvin's position for us.

Now that the Vikings appear to be a competitive team, Harvin may view himself as the missing piece of the puzzle for a superbowl run, and buy in.
Vikings appeared to be a team heading for nowhere when Harvin had his little sideline tiff.

Remember feeling sorry for players, like Harvin and Peterson, for being stuck on a team, without a snowballs chance in hell of ever seeing a superbowl , about midseason?

I think the Vikings will be able to work out a contract extension with Harvin. But even if they have to trade him, I think they will come out ok and remain a very competitive team.

Percy is extremely valuable to the Vikings, dumping him would be really stupid!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by PackSux!

I don't blame him one bit for talking holdout. Look at what he gets paid versus what he does for us on the field.

I agree with your statement about how he will be expensive, but I dont agree that we have ALOT of needs. Sure we have some holes to fill and one of them happens to be wr, so to me it makes no sense at all to trade away a damn good wr instead of paying Harvin.

We don't need to be looking for two wr's this offseason. And personally there is not another wr in the league I want playing Harvin's position for us.

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Here's the thing....Percy signed the contract. At the time he signed it, he probably thought, "Hey, I got a pretty sweet deal here". Then things changed.... people started telling him how awesome he was, people started telling him he was underpaid....and Percy started feeling "disgruntled".

Now, remember, when we drafted him as a "problem" player, we gave him an opportunity that several other teams didn't.

He's forgotten that.

Instead, he only see's the notion that he's somehow undercompensated.

You see, the POINT of a Rookie contract is to get maximum value from an UNPROVEN commodity. Harvin has proven two things in his four years in Minnesota.

1: He's a hell of a good player.
2: He's very high maintenance.

Even Mike Florio at PFT thinks Harvin is likely gone

(Signs point to Percy Harvin leaving Vikings | ProFootballTalk)

Look, if Percy wanted to be a Viking, I'd be all for keeping him. If he was looking to be compensated at the level of his performance, I'd even be all for that.

But I can't shake the feeling that Percy will want more than Percy is actually worth. Look at the crop of WR FA's signed over the past 5 years or so. The big name guys. Ochocinco has disappeared. Owens faded away. Moss is gone. Houshmandzadeh has vanished. Boldin has become an after-thought. And so on, and so on.... All of these guys were BIG ticket guys...like Percy is now. And almost NONE of them maintained that level of productivity on their next team.

It happens all the time in the NFL, an "underpaid" guy gets his $$$$, and his production turns to shit. And the guys it happens to the MOST are the guys who chase the $$$$.

I don't see us being able to keep Percy happy, regardless of the money. He hasn't demonstrated to me that he wants to even BE a Viking. In fact, I've gotten the opposite impression. And under those conditions, we're better off trading him.

Caine

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Originally Posted by Caine

Here's the thing....Percy signed the contract. At the time he signed it, he probably thought, "Hey, I got a pretty sweet deal here". Then things changed.... people started telling him how awesome he was, people started telling him he was underpaid....and Percy started feeling "disgruntled".

Now, remember, when we drafted him as a "problem" player, we gave him an opportunity that several other teams didn't.

He's forgotten that.

Instead, he only see's the notion that he's somehow undercompensated.

You see, the POINT of a Rookie contract is to get maximum value from an UNPROVEN commodity. Harvin has proven two things in his four years in Minnesota.

1: He's a hell of a good player.
2: He's very high maintenance.

Even Mike Florio at PFT thinks Harvin is likely gone

(Signs point to Percy Harvin leaving Vikings | ProFootballTalk)

Look, if Percy wanted to be a Viking, I'd be all for keeping him. If he was looking to be compensated at the level of his performance, I'd even be all for that.

But I can't shake the feeling that Percy will want more than Percy is actually worth. Look at the crop of WR FA's signed over the past 5 years or so. The big name guys. Ochocinco has disappeared. Owens faded away. Moss is gone. Houshmandzadeh has vanished. Boldin has become an after-thought. And so on, and so on.... All of these guys were BIG ticket guys...like Percy is now. And almost NONE of them maintained that level of productivity on their next team.

It happens all the time in the NFL, an "underpaid" guy gets his $$$$, and his production turns to shit. And the guys it happens to the MOST are the guys who chase the $$$$.

I don't see us being able to keep Percy happy, regardless of the money. He hasn't demonstrated to me that he wants to even BE a Viking. In fact, I've gotten the opposite impression. And under those conditions, we're better off trading him.

Caine

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What do we actually know about the situation?
Percy didn't chose the Vikings and Percy wants his money.
He has played well enough to warrant a much better contract, but his stats, and injury risk will surely mitigate what the Vikings will offer.

It has been reported that the players ran the show in college and Percy was a ring leader.
There is evidence that Percy has tried to do the same thing in the pros, eg. throwing a weight toward Childress, Yelling at and argueing with Frazier.

In the end Spielman and Frazier will move Harvin before they will let him be undermine team cohesion and stability.
If that's the case, I would not be surprised to see him go for a third round pick or less.
But if Harvin sees the direction this team is going and buys in, I expect to see him sign an extension after he holds out of training camp next year.
Then all will be right with Percy again........until the Vikings start to lose.