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  1. #21
    Ltrey33 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: The Answer to "When should we put TJ in for BJ?"

    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "V-Unit" wrote:
    That would suggest that Vince Young is bound to be a total bust.
    Not necessarily, but it doesn't speak well to his future.

    Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf.
    The three poster boys for played-too-soon.

    Jake Delhomme, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer.
    The three poster boys for sitting-and-learning.

    Peyton Manning is the exception.
    And HE didn't learn to win until year 3.

    =Z=
    The only quarterback in recent memory that I can think of to start and be successful in his rookie year (and no, Kyle Orton DOES NOT count) is Roethlisberger and he benefitted from a killer running game and a great defense. The majority of guys that start right out of college have a rough time of it for a while though.

  2. #22
    Prophet Guest

    Re: The Answer to "When should we put TJ in for BJ?"

    "Ltrey33" wrote:
    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "V-Unit" wrote:
    That would suggest that Vince Young is bound to be a total bust.
    Not necessarily, but it doesn't speak well to his future.

    Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf.
    The three poster boys for played-too-soon.

    Jake Delhomme, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer.
    The three poster boys for sitting-and-learning.

    Peyton Manning is the exception.
    And HE didn't learn to win until year 3.

    =Z=
    The only quarterback in recent memory that I can think of to start and be successful in his rookie year (and no, Kyle Orton DOES NOT count) is Roethlisberger and he benefitted from a killer running game and a great defense. The majority of guys that start right out of college have a rough time of it for a while though.
    Especially when they come from a small college.
    Come on people, it's not like he came from a SEC school where every week he was facing the top ranked schools in the nation.
    Even if that was the case it would be the exception to the rule for him to perform well as a rookie.
    Amazing.
    If Childress and crew, based on decades of experience, do not think he is ready, he is not ready.

  3. #23
    oakmage's Avatar
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    Re: The Answer to "When should we put TJ in for BJ?"

    I don't know why some of you are even thinking this.
    He is not ready let him learn and devlope natuarly.
    When it is time it will be time relax it will happen but not just right now.
    Life is not a TV show where everything is done in a half an hour it takes time, so let it.

  4. #24
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: The Answer to "When should we put TJ in for BJ?"

    "Displaced_Viking" wrote:
    I think Brad's done ok.
    I wish there was a little more excitement in our offense and at least one better receiver, BUT that's the design of our offense.

    So, we have two tough games, one in Seattle and then at home against the Pats.
    After that, we have a pretty easy schedule (with the exception of Chicago).
    Although we've got a tendency to play to the ability of our opponent, I think we've got a really good chance of making the playoffs with this schedule.
    Once we get into the playoffs, I'm not sure what will happen, but Brad's got experience in the playoffs, right up to winning the Super Bowl.
    So, I guess I'm saying that I'm behind Brad.
    He might not want you BEHIND him...

    LOL
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  5. #25
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    Re: The Answer to "When should we put TJ in for BJ?"

    we have a very good chance to get into the playoffs this year as a wild card, there is def no need to pull brad for TJ just yet.
    If we get to 8 losses, and theres not a chance for us to get into the playoffs i would like to see T Jack in there.

  6. #26
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: The Answer to "When should we put TJ in for BJ?"

    I wonder if the posters who wanted Frerotte and BJ to start over Culpepper are the ones suggesting TJ start over Johnson now. If so, that's lame.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  7. #27
    ItalianStallion's Avatar
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    Re: The Answer to "When should we put TJ in for BJ?"

    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "V-Unit" wrote:
    That would suggest that Vince Young is bound to be a total bust.
    Not necessarily, but it doesn't speak well to his future.

    Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf.
    The three poster boys for played-too-soon.

    Jake Delhomme, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer.
    The three poster boys for sitting-and-learning.

    Peyton Manning is the exception.
    And HE didn't learn to win until year 3.

    =Z=
    Manning threw for over 4000 yards and 26 TDs with a 90.7 rating and had a 13=3 record in his second year.
    I would say he learned to win before his 3rd year.

    Just because a QB was a bust and played in their first year, does not mean that the player is a bust BECAUSE they played in their first year.
    MAybe they just sucked, period.

    Roethlisberger didn't sit, Eli Manning didn't sit, Alex Smith didn't sit, Charlie frye didn't sit, Kyle Orton didn't sit, Byron Leftwich didn't sit, David Carr didn't sit, McNAbb didn't sit, Jake plummer didn't sit etc.
    All of these players had good first season, had big improvements their second seasons or are Pro Bowlers.
    So it's not like Peyton is the only instance where a player has been able to play football in their first season and not be forever crushed.
    Its called coaching and trusting the fact that your QB is coachable, and hopefully, not r.etarded.


    I m like a Ja Rule poster, cause I'm off the wall.

  8. #28
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: The Answer to "When should we put TJ in for BJ?"

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "V-Unit" wrote:
    That would suggest that Vince Young is bound to be a total bust.
    Not necessarily, but it doesn't speak well to his future.

    Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf.
    The three poster boys for played-too-soon.

    Jake Delhomme, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer.
    The three poster boys for sitting-and-learning.

    Peyton Manning is the exception.
    And HE didn't learn to win until year 3.

    =Z=
    Manning threw for over 4000 yards and 26 TDs with a 90.7 rating and had a 13=3 record in his second year.
    I would say he learned to win before his 3rd year.

    Just because a QB was a bust and played in their first year, does not mean that the player is a bust BECAUSE they played in their first year.
    MAybe they just sucked, period.

    Roethlisberger didn't sit, Eli Manning didn't sit, Alex Smith didn't sit, Charlie frye didn't sit, Kyle Orton didn't sit, Byron Leftwich didn't sit, David Carr didn't sit, McNAbb didn't sit, Jake plummer didn't sit etc.
    All of these players had good first season, had big improvements their second seasons or are Pro Bowlers.
    So it's not like Peyton is the only instance where a player has been able to play football in their first season and not be forever crushed.
    Its called coaching and trusting the fact that your QB is coachable, and hopefully, not r.etarded.
    Roethlisberger:
    Passing
    Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
    2004 Pittsburgh Steelers 14 13 295 196 66.4 2621 8.88 58 17 11 30/213 43 7 98.1
    2005 Pittsburgh Steelers 12 12 268 168 62.7 2385 8.90 85 17 9 23/129 35 12 98.6
    2006 Pittsburgh Steelers 3 3 102 55 53.9 569 5.58 36 0 7 10/50 5 0 41.7
    I'll give you that one.

    Eli Manning:
    Passing
    Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
    2004 New York Giants 9 7 197 95 48.2 1043 5.29 52 6 9 13/83 11 4 55.4
    2005 New York Giants 16 16 557 294 52.8 3762 6.75 78 24 17 28/184 49 8 75.9
    2006 New York Giants 4 4 146 98 67.1 1149 7.87 46 9 5 9/64 16 2 97.1
    TOTAL
    29 27 900 487 54.1 5954 6.62 78 39 31 50/331 76 14 74.8
    Sat for half the season his first year, had a lousy season and then improved to mediocre last year.

    Smith:
    Passing
    Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
    2005 San Francisco 49ers 9 7 165 84 50.9 875 5.30 47 1 11 29/185 13 2 40.8
    2006 San Francisco 49ers 5 5 152 89 58.6 1071 7.05 75 6 3 8/42 14 4 85.2
    TOTAL
    14 12 317 173 54.6 1946 6.14 75 7 14 37/227 27 6 62.
    By no stretch of the imagination can you consider Alex Smith's year anything but a disaster.
    And while his stats this season are better, his team isn't going anywhere.

    Frye:
    Passing
    Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
    2005 Cleveland Browns 7 5 164 98 59.8 1002 6.11 45 4 5 22/135 12 1 72.8
    2006 Cleveland Browns 5 5 168 105 62.5 1039 6.18 75 5 9 16/108 12 2 67.5
    TOTAL
    12 10 332 203 61.1 2041 6.15 75 9 14 38/243 24 3 70.1
    Sat for most of his rookie year and has, statistically, been worse in his second season.

    Orton:
    Passing
    Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
    2005 Chicago Bears 15 15 368 190 51.6 1869 5.08 54 9 13 30/190 23 3 59.7
    2006 Chicago Bears 0 0 0 0 --- 0 --- 0 0 0 0/0 0 0 ---
    TOTAL
    15 15 368 190 51.6 1869 5.08 54 9 13 30/190 23 3 59.7
    Was going to sit until Grossman got hurt.
    And, while the team won, he was almost as bad as Alex Smith.
    And now he sits again.

    Leftwich:
    Passing
    Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
    2003 Jacksonville Jaguars 15 13 418 239 57.2 2819 6.74 84 14 16 19/90 33 7 73.0
    2004 Jacksonville Jaguars 14 14 441 267 60.5 2941 6.67 65 15 10 25/114 33 7 82.2
    2005 Jacksonville Jaguars 11 11 302 175 57.9 2123 7.03 45 15 5 23/110 31 5 89.3
    2006 Jacksonville Jaguars 5 5 155 94 60.6 1034 6.67 51 7 5 8/41 13 3 82.0
    TOTAL
    45 43 1316 775 58.9 8917 6.78 84 51 36 75/355 110 22 80.9
    Didn't sit and was middle-of-the-pack.
    A solid pro now, no where near a Pro Bowl QB.
    The AFC selected SIX QBs for the Pro Bowl last year (3 were injured) and none of them were Byron Leftwich.

    Carr:
    Passing
    Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
    2002 Houston Texans 16 16 444 233 52.5 2592 5.84 81 9 15 76/411 31 5 62.8
    2003 Houston Texans 12 11 295 167 56.6 2013 6.82 78 9 13 15/90 22 5 69.5
    2004 Houston Texans 16 16 466 285 61.2 3531 7.58 69 16 14 49/301 47 6 83.5
    2005 Houston Texans 16 16 423 256 60.5 2488 5.88 53 14 11 68/424 18 2 77.2
    2006 Houston Texans 4 4 111 81 73.0 865 7.79 53 7 2 15/92 12 2 108.9
    TOTAL
    64 63 1739 1022 58.8 11489 6.61 81 55 55 223/1318 130 20 76.0
    Now in his FIFTH season starting, Carr is finally making some plays, even though he's on his butt a lot of the time.
    Unfortunately, the team is not winning.

    McNabb is another exception, Plummer is not.
    He's an adequate NFL QB who will be benched for Jay Cutler at the first sign of trouble.


    So I dispute your notion that "all of the palyers had good first seasons, had big improvements their second season or are Pro Bowlers."

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  9. #29
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: The Answer to "When should we put TJ in for BJ?"

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "V-Unit" wrote:
    That would suggest that Vince Young is bound to be a total bust.
    Not necessarily, but it doesn't speak well to his future.

    Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf.
    The three poster boys for played-too-soon.

    Jake Delhomme, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer.
    The three poster boys for sitting-and-learning.

    Peyton Manning is the exception.
    And HE didn't learn to win until year 3.

    =Z=
    Manning threw for over 4000 yards and 26 TDs with a 90.7 rating and had a 13=3 record in his second year.
    I would say he learned to win before his 3rd year.

    Just because a QB was a bust and played in their first year, does not mean that the player is a bust BECAUSE they played in their first year.
    MAybe they just sucked, period.

    Roethlisberger didn't sit, Eli Manning didn't sit, Alex Smith didn't sit, Charlie frye didn't sit, Kyle Orton didn't sit, Byron Leftwich didn't sit, David Carr didn't sit, McNAbb didn't sit, Jake plummer didn't sit etc.
    All of these players had good first season, had big improvements their second seasons or are Pro Bowlers.
    So it's not like Peyton is the only instance where a player has been able to play football in their first season and not be forever crushed.
    Its called coaching and trusting the fact that your QB is coachable, and hopefully, not r.etarded.
    NO, it's called "READ THE F'N ARTICLE I POSTED...it explains succinctly exactly what goes into when and why a young QB will be ready for the NFL!"
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  10. #30
    ItalianStallion's Avatar
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    Re: The Answer to "When should we put TJ in for BJ?"

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "AWZeus" wrote:
    "V-Unit" wrote:
    That would suggest that Vince Young is bound to be a total bust.
    Not necessarily, but it doesn't speak well to his future.

    Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf.
    The three poster boys for played-too-soon.

    Jake Delhomme, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer.
    The three poster boys for sitting-and-learning.

    Peyton Manning is the exception.
    And HE didn't learn to win until year 3.

    =Z=
    Manning threw for over 4000 yards and 26 TDs with a 90.7 rating and had a 13=3 record in his second year.
    I would say he learned to win before his 3rd year.

    Just because a QB was a bust and played in their first year, does not mean that the player is a bust BECAUSE they played in their first year.
    MAybe they just sucked, period.

    Roethlisberger didn't sit, Eli Manning didn't sit, Alex Smith didn't sit, Charlie frye didn't sit, Kyle Orton didn't sit, Byron Leftwich didn't sit, David Carr didn't sit, McNAbb didn't sit, Jake plummer didn't sit etc.
    All of these players had good first season, had big improvements their second seasons or are Pro Bowlers.
    So it's not like Peyton is the only instance where a player has been able to play football in their first season and not be forever crushed.
    Its called coaching and trusting the fact that your QB is coachable, and hopefully, not r.etarded.
    NO, it's called "READ THE F'N ARTICLE I POSTED...it explains succinctly exactly what goes into when and why a young QB will be ready for the NFL!"
    I'm sorry if I don't blindly accept the reputable Chris Landry's magical formula for developing ALL young qbs.
    It's ignorant to believe that all QBs learn the same way and need to complete a checklist in the proper progression in order to develop into a good QB.
    I'm sure there are qbs that learn better playing and are not neccessarily "practice players" or "film junkies".
    Quarterback development is not an exact science, and I AM NOT SAYING TARVARIS WILL COME IN AND PLAY GREAT, EVEN GOOD.
    I have confidence Childress knows where he is at, I just find it disconcerting that some people are willing to give Brad another year on top of this one.
    Tarvaris may play just as bad or worse than Brad is currently, but the fact is he will improve, and he has to take his lumps some time, so let him do it AT LEAST next year.
    Brad has been in the league for a long time and is not getting any better.
    I did read the article and an assumption that Tarvaris has not completed any (or the first 2) of these steps is uninformed at best.

    =Z=, you can dispute my notion all you want:

    Roethlisberger: Offensive rookie of the year, won 15 games as a rookie, won the superbowl as a sophmore 'nuff said

    Manning:
    Has a rough first few games in his first season, but has STEADILY GOTTEN BETTER as he has played more games.
    Helped turn a 4-12 football team into a playoff contender a year after being drafted.
    If that is mediocre then WTF is Brad?

    Alex Smith:
    had a HORRIBLE first season, but has improved a lot this year with better COACHING, and surprsingly has not failed as a QB despite starting in his rookie season :.
    Forking Peyton Manning couldn't take the niners to the playoffs so gimme a break, they picked in the top 6 the past 2 years.

    Charlie Frye:
    has been unspectacular, but the Browns are a better team with him than they are with Dilfer, Garcia etc.
    Crennell is dedicated to him as the starter so he hasn't failed completely yet either.
    Has LOOKED better, less lost and more composed in his second season.

    Orton:
    Was fourth rounder and helped his team turn from a 5-11 team to a 11-5 team.
    Not a great QB, but handled starting as a rookie well.

    Leftwich:
    Is no superstar, but is a good QB and has gotten better each year.
    His team was 12-4 last year and are good again this year.
    Has gotten a little better every year.

    Carr:
    Has been a solid Qb who has always been stuck on a bad team with no oline.
    This has been his best year as a player.

    Plummer:
    Is a good QB who get a bad rap because he doesn't do a whole lot in the playoffs (other than handing Tom Brady his only post-season loss).
    Made the Pro Bowl last year as an alternate.

    In all of these cases, starting as rookies did not stunt their progression, rather it got them on track to developing as better qbs.
    I'm not saying Tarvaris will be a superstar.
    But playing time, in my opinion does more for learning how to be a qb than clipboard holding.

    So with a few pro bowlers, some players who had very good first season and ALL of them have improved as players.
    ANd trust me there are just as many examples of QBs who DID NOT start their first season and still ended up as busts as there are those who did start.









    I m like a Ja Rule poster, cause I'm off the wall.

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