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  1. #31
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    The concept that the NFL "lobbied" to get the Vikes in the league is so bizzarely ridiculous on it's face that I cannot even imagine how to respond to those that hold that perspective. Your ownership group was known as one of the "foolish club" for even thinking that something so audacious as an alternative league like the AFL could compete against the NFL...

    The only thing that was in competition between those two leagues at that time were draft picks, which the AFL was poaching, and that was about it.




    http://www.profootballhof.com/history/decades/1960s/afl.aspx

    Charter memberships were issued to Dallas, Denver, Houston, Los Angeles, Minneapolis and New York. Buffalo and Boston were admitted later that year. Early in 1960, Minneapolis defected to the National Football League and Oakland was picked as a replacement city. The whole idea seemed so far-fetched, even after AFL teams started playing, that the eight team owners became known as the "Foolish Club."

  2. #32
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089852
    The concept that the NFL "lobbied" to get the Vikes in the league is so bizzarely ridiculous on it's face that I cannot even imagine how to respond to those that hold that perspective. Your ownership group was known as one of the "foolish club" for even thinking that something so audacious as an alternative league like the AFL could compete against the NFL...

    The only thing that was in competition between those two leagues at that time were draft picks, which the AFL was poaching, and that was about it.




    http://www.profootballhof.com/history/decades/1960s/afl.aspx

    Charter memberships were issued to Dallas, Denver, Houston, Los Angeles, Minneapolis and New York. Buffalo and Boston were admitted later that year. Early in 1960, Minneapolis defected to the National Football League and Oakland was picked as a replacement city. The whole idea seemed so far-fetched, even after AFL teams started playing, that the eight team owners became known as the "Foolish Club."
    Seems the "Foolish Club" did alright. Must have provided some competition after all.
    Poaching or free enterprise?

    Just another great american story of rising from the ashes against all odds.
    Nice to know the Vikings played a primary role.

    How's that for history?
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
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  3. #33
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Here's history for you. A team in a small shit city wanted a team, but couldn't afford one, they had a meat packing company sponsor the team, buy equipment in return for using their name. They didn't even play all their home games in GB, opting to play in Milwaukee for a bunch of them, probably other places as well. They also got bailed out by rival teams multiple times because they were were not financially stable, or got caught cheating.

    That's some good history right there.

  4. #34
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Two meat packing companies.

    More "saving" history by Halas-

    On Thanksgiving Day in 1921 a huge turnout was expected in the second game ever played between the Packers and the Bears. Despite having previously inked a contract and agreeing to play the game in Green Bay, however, George Halas wired Curly Lambeau demanding that Green Bay pay an 'extortion' fee of $4,000 before he brought his team north to play the Packers. Unable to meet Halas' demands, Lambeau could do little and was forced to replace the Bears with the non-league game vs. the Duluth Kelleys. The ensuing game was a disaster. Disinterested fans failed to show-up to watch a non-league contest in a driving rain. Only 100 people attended the game and Halas' action brought the Packers to the brink of bankruptcy.
    and here,

    Though college players football surreptitiously played on every NFL team in the early days of professional football (including the Bears), George Halas exposed the fact that Notre Dame guard Heartley 'Hunk' Anderson was playing for the Packers by contributing to a newspaper article printed in the Chicago Tribune. Halas desperately wanted and fully expected Anderson to play for the Bears, however, when he learned that Anderson was playing for the Packers in the first ever meeting between the two teams, he was irate. Halas was angry that a small market team like the Packers could lure Anderson away from the big bad Bears and wasted no time demanding the league revoke the Packers franchise. Halas subsequently was responsible for delaying the Packers reinstatement the following summer so he could sign Anderson right out from under the nose of the Packers. After all, Anderson couldn't play for the Packers if their team didn't exist.

    ...and here-

    Three years after George Halas and the Bears accused the Packers of employing the services of college players and nearly killing the team as a result, Halas himself tampered with an undergraduate player of his own…Harold 'Red' Grange. Halas faced a far different fate than what he subjected the Packers to when he lead the failed charge to revoke Green Bay's charter, however. Halas not only got away with the stunt, the Bears were never even punished by the league.

  5. #35
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089848
    For starters, you can go back and read the language in your link to the prove "loan from Halas" to the Pack.
    Halas loaned the Packers money once to allow them to stay in business. During the Great Depression, the Packers took an IOU for $2,500 from Halas instead of forcing him to pay them for their share of gate receipts from a game. Halas paid the Packers nearly a year later.

    So, according to YOUR OWN SOURCE that you cited as "proof", Halas not only loaned the Packers money, he paid them back, lol

    Nice source!

    I'm not angry, I'm bored, that's different, plus kind enough not to bring up any recent history, if we want to start talking about what "I'm leaving out", lol
    Perhaps YOU are the one who needs the reread...the alleged loan to Green Bay was a single incident. The loan to Halas FROM Green Bay was another. The repayment was in reference to the SECOND act.

    R.I.F.

    But, again, I didn't originally claim he lent them MONEY...YOU brought that in.

    Caine

  6. #36
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089855
    Two meat packing companies.

    More "saving" history by Halas-

    On Thanksgiving Day in 1921 a huge turnout was expected in the second game ever played between the Packers and the Bears. Despite having previously inked a contract and agreeing to play the game in Green Bay, however, George Halas wired Curly Lambeau demanding that Green Bay pay an 'extortion' fee of $4,000 before he brought his team north to play the Packers. Unable to meet Halas' demands, Lambeau could do little and was forced to replace the Bears with the non-league game vs. the Duluth Kelleys. The ensuing game was a disaster. Disinterested fans failed to show-up to watch a non-league contest in a driving rain. Only 100 people attended the game and Halas' action brought the Packers to the brink of bankruptcy.
    and here,

    Though college players football surreptitiously played on every NFL team in the early days of professional football (including the Bears), George Halas exposed the fact that Notre Dame guard Heartley 'Hunk' Anderson was playing for the Packers by contributing to a newspaper article printed in the Chicago Tribune. Halas desperately wanted and fully expected Anderson to play for the Bears, however, when he learned that Anderson was playing for the Packers in the first ever meeting between the two teams, he was irate. Halas was angry that a small market team like the Packers could lure Anderson away from the big bad Bears and wasted no time demanding the league revoke the Packers franchise. Halas subsequently was responsible for delaying the Packers reinstatement the following summer so he could sign Anderson right out from under the nose of the Packers. After all, Anderson couldn't play for the Packers if their team didn't exist.

    ...and here-

    Three years after George Halas and the Bears accused the Packers of employing the services of college players and nearly killing the team as a result, Halas himself tampered with an undergraduate player of his own…Harold 'Red' Grange. Halas faced a far different fate than what he subjected the Packers to when he lead the failed charge to revoke Green Bay's charter, however. Halas not only got away with the stunt, the Bears were never even punished by the league.
    The irony being that the Packers own media guide was quoted as the source for the version of the College Scam debacle.

    Not sure which source you're using, since you haven't cited one...

    But, again, what exactly is it you're trying to prove?

    All I said was that Halas bailed out your franchise multiple times. THIS IS A FACT!!!

    Whether or not he forced, coerced, or duped the NFL into later (MUCH later) offering Minnesota a franchise is irrelevant to that FACT.

    What is also FACT is that Green Bay sold shares in their team because they were BROKE. That is well documented as FACT.

    It is also a FACT that only Green Bay is allowed to be publicly owned.

    Those three points were what I posted, and what YOU took great offense to it would appear.

    Finally, why WOULDN'T the NFL offer potential AFL teams an NFL charter instead? Why is that ludicrous? A mere 11 years after, the two leagues MERGED because those "fools" who thought they could compete with the NFL actually DID!!!

    Caine

  7. #37
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    It's a fact if you believe one story in the Chicago Tribune that said Halas bailed out the Packers numerous times, that has been reprinted and thrown around the web many more.

    It's a fact that Halas "saved" the Packers in 1922 if you believe that he isn't the one that not only "turned them in" for violating the no college player rule, that you believe he didn't try and have the Packers charter taken away, that he didn't delay their reinstatement the following year, that he didn't have college players of his own on his team at the same time, that he didn't get caught "red handed" with Red Grange on his team a few years later... like you could hide a Red Grange for cripes sake,lol...

    If that's what you call "saving", I volunteer to help save the Vikings.

    B)

    (this is kind of fun)

    I gave you the '56 PR thing, and that's all you got, that isn't multiple times, and a little PR doesn't compare to allowing the Vikes into the league, imo

    ...Speaking of the Chicago Tribune, George Halas (in)famously WROTE THE BEARS PRESS back in those days, which is probably where that concept came from in the movie "leatherheads", and how he came to "save" the Pack, lol

  8. #38
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089859
    It's a fact if you believe one story in the Chicago Tribune that said Halas bailed out the Packers numerous times, that has been reprinted and thrown around the web many more.

    It's a fact that Halas "saved" the Packers in 1922 if you believe that he isn't the one that not only "turned them in" for violating the no college player rule, that you believe he didn't try and have the Packers charter taken away, that he didn't delay their reinstatement the following year, that he didn't have college players of his own on his team at the same time, that he didn't get caught "red handed" with Red Grange on his team a few years later... like you could hide a Red Grange for cripes sake,lol...

    If that's what you call "saving", I volunteer to help save the Vikings.

    B)

    (this is kind of fun)
    I actually found numerous sources which cited the 1956 speech which is credited with saving the Green Bay franchise. Not just one in the Trib.

    I also found several sources which reiterated the Green Bay booted from the NFL in 1921 story. And, yes, Halas himself turned them in. But the FACT remains that it was also Halas who argued for Green Bay's reinstatement - delayed or not. What Halas was doing at the time is - again - irrelevant since we aren't talking about Halas or the Bears in this case, we are discussing the FACT that Green Bay was BOOTED from the NFL.

    So, again, despite the smoke screen you keep trying to throw up there, both of the FACTS I posted remain.....well.....facts.

    And despite your attempts to muddy this issue by dragging the Vikings into it, the FACT remains that your franchise is still the ONLY publicly owned franchise.

    And it ALSO remains true that they did it because they were BROKE!!!

    So, again, the QUESTION I originally posed ALSO remains....if it worked for Green Bay, why did the NFL prohibit other franchises from doing the same?

    Again, just another example of NFL favoritism towards Green Bay.

    Caine

  9. #39
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    The Green Bay rule

    It doesn't answer your question, but the article asks it better...or perhaps, a little more politely.


    Green Bay stands as a living, breathing, and, for the owners, frightening example, that pro sports can aid our cities in tough economic times, not drain them of scarce public resources.
    Take it up with the commish.

    What you characterize as "favortism" (I'm not gonna quibble about that recurring theme of yours) only puts the Packers on a footing roughly equal to the Vikings. The rest of whatever financial success they have achieved as a franchise can also be assigned to the fans and tax payers support of that franchise. For example, Forbes has the "cost per fan" in GB at 277. ea, taking into account the relative market size of ea. franchise. Go to the Forbes 2010 NFL article and compare that to your own team, on a cost per fan basis, or for that matter, ANY other team. That is an undeniable factor also.

  10. #40
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089861
    The Green Bay rule

    It doesn't answer your question, but the article asks it better...or perhaps, a little more politely.


    Green Bay stands as a living, breathing, and, for the owners, frightening example, that pro sports can aid our cities in tough economic times, not drain them of scarce public resources.
    Take it up with the commish.
    That didn't answer the question...it merely rephrased it and restated the rationale FOR the question. In fact, the author himself appears to be asking the same question I did...with no answer given.

    Fact is, if it can work in Green Bay, why can't it work elsewhere? Green bay has roughly 300k (plus or minus), the Twin Cities has a population of roughly 3.8 MILLION.

    Obviously, the resources are there to replicate the Green Bay model in Minnesota, or in San Diego, or Los Angeles, or in any other potential host city. So why the prohibition?

    Caine

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