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  1. #21
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089838
    The Vikings would have been an AFL team, not an NFL team.

    George Halas was the chair-head of the NFL expansion committee.

    They squabbled over awarding a franchise to Minneapolis, and Halas was the lead champion for that cause.

    HE came up with the KEY compromise in that committee.

    The Vikings would be awarded an NFL franchise contingent upon selling 25,000 season tickets in 1961. They did so.

    If any other facts regarding the true progenitors of the Vikings as an NFL team are needed, I'll be happy to accomodate. Revisionist, hmph. B)
    Revision by omission! That's better. But the Chicago Cardinals were considering moving to Mpls.. They were an NFL team at the time and played twice in Minnesota.
    They were a terrible team and considered Chicagos 'other team'.

    The Bidwell family moved them to St. Louis in 1960, I think.

    Max Winter was going to go the way of the AFL but Halas didn't want the competition from another league in his area. That was the primary motivation for approving the Vikings.

    Being an old fart with a faulty memory, I enjoy the history myself.

    Keep it coming. If I don't agree with your version I'll just revise it!
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  2. #22
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    :P In order to go into any more depth I may be forced to punch holes in the paneling of my hand built single-wide trailer and drag out the sports pages from the era that I used as insulation. :P

    All I was pointing out was the fact that Halas was very instrumental in the Vikings becoming an NFL franchise. The motivations are relevant, but don't in any way refute my assertion, and frankly, I can't think of a logical interpretation of history that would refute it.

    In the "keep it coming" category, I'll go with this one...

    The Minnesota Vikings WERE an AFL team.

    In 1959, Winter and Boyer formed your Minnesota Vikings as one of the AFL teams. In January of 1960 they withdrew from the AFL and were awarded an NFL franchise (by Halas and associates, lol) two days later, to begin play in 1961, per my previous contingency of selling 25k in season tickets.

    How am I doing on the esoteric trivia? :P

  3. #23
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Maximus Winter. What a great name for a guy starting a Minnesota franchise.

  4. #24
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089824
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1089820
    It's worth pointing out that the only reason Green Bay was publicly traded is because they couldn't maintain financial viability back in the early years. In fact, it's not widely known but George Halas saved the Green Bay franchise on more than one occasion.


    ...probably so he'd have 2 guaranteed wins per year...


    It's worth noting also that despite the alleged "success" of the Packers being publicly traded, no other franchise is ALLOWED to do so. Why is that? If it works so well there, why not allow other franchises to mirror that "success story"?

    Just another pro-Green Bay NFL contradiction to throw into the "Why I hate the Packers" bucket...


    ...like I needed more reasons...

    Caine

    The Green Bay Packers loaned Halas $1500 in 1932 in order to save the Chicago Bears franchise. He borrowed money from his mother, his mother-in-law, and the Pack.

    The Bears have never loaned the Packers a dime.
    I never said Halas gave them money...I said he saved your franchise. And he did. In 1922 (After you were booted for cheating), and in 1956 after he motivated the city of Green Bay to pony up cash for a stadium for your "financially insecure" franchise.

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089824
    Halas was instrumental in public relations in 1956 to convince Packer fans that it was wise to support their form of ownership. That is the FORM of his assistance... not anything financial. That is the "saved".
    Mentioned above and below...

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089824
    Maybe it's the soft spot he held because without that loan way back in '32, the Bears would have folded right then and there.
    And had he not lobbied so strongly ion 1922, there would have been no Packers to loan him money.

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089824
    He did the same thing (public relations) in 1922 with the rest of the league as regards the Packers, having to do with their use of college football players. The league was going to ban the Pack, but he was guilty of the exact same rule infraction, including getting one of the players from the Pack, so in order to enforce prohibitions against the GB franchise, they would have had to do the same to the Bears.
    Not quite accurate from what I've read.

    The Packers WERE banned for the use of College players. Halas talked the League into letting them back in (Ironically, it was Halas that blew the whistle on them). Halas signed one of those players after the hubbub wore down.

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089824
    Those are your "saved" the Packers, and I guess to Norse mythologists, they are totally legit.

    Or maybe that one Bears fan buddy you have (Caine) that told you the Bears didn't try in week 17, thereby making that a fact (to you), lol

    Now, for some real facts. The team that Halas helped the most?

    YOURS.

    He was THE driving force for the NFL bringing a franchise to Minneapolis.
    "Halas loaned the Packers money once to allow them to stay in business."
    Source: http://www.thestarpress.com/article/20110123/SPORTS/101230342/1006/SPORTS

    "Halas helped save Packers" (Story about the PR event you mentioned above)
    Source: http://www.fox6now.com/news/ct-spt-0119-haugh-george-mccaskey-bea20110118,0,7303227.story?track=rss

    "...It was Halas who was instrumental in persuading league partners in 1922 to allow Green Bay and Lambeau back in the fold after the Packers were banned for using college players illegally."
    Source: http://host.madison.com/sports/football/professional/article_f6124068-25d8-11e0-b0c3-001cc4c002e0.html


    What's funny here is that you get SO defensive about this. Did I make a claim that was untrue here? Did George Halas NOT save the Packer franchise on more than one occasion as I stated? (By my count it's at least 2...that equals "more than one")

    Is it also not true that Green Bay was publicly traded to remain solvent? Did I somehow distort that?

    Is it also not true that the NFL has prohibited anyone BUT Green Bay from being publicly held and traded?

    And, as a weak topper, you reference a quote from an acquaintance of mine that I shared while pointing out how STUPID Bears were to not pull out all the stops to end Green Bays season in week 17, and you try and use someone else's quote to discredit ME? When did "I" state that the Bears didn't try their hardest? I simply said that the Bears screwed the pooch - and, as it turned out - I was fucking prophetic!!!

    But shame on you for using a cheap discrediting stunt like that. I hope you don't plan to make a habit of it.

    Caine

  5. #25
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Gotta love history! :woohoo:
    “What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. It’s the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

  6. #26
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089842
    :P In order to go into any more depth I may be forced to punch holes in the paneling of my hand built single-wide trailer and drag out the sports pages from the era that I used as insulation. :P

    All I was pointing out was the fact that Halas was very instrumental in the Vikings becoming an NFL franchise. The motivations are relevant, but don't in any way refute my assertion, and frankly, I can't think of a logical interpretation of history that would refute it.

    In the "keep it coming" category, I'll go with this one...

    The Minnesota Vikings WERE an AFL team.

    In 1959, Winter and Boyer formed your Minnesota Vikings as one of the AFL teams. In January of 1960 they withdrew from the AFL and were awarded an NFL franchise (by Halas and associates, lol) two days later, to begin play in 1961, per my previous contingency of selling 25k in season tickets.

    How am I doing on the esoteric trivia? :P
    So, the mere fact that George Halas was the Chairman of the Expansion committee - the same Chairman that wanted to up the League to 16 teams - and that same committee lobbied the ALREADY AFL FRANCHISE HOLDING owners group in Minnesota to switch to the NFL...somehow we're now MORE indebted to Halas than Green Bay is?

    Too funny...

    Caine

  7. #27
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089829
    It's too bad that Halas worked so very hard to get the Vikes included in the league, from my perspective.

    I can't help but think that if there were no Vikings, Caine would be a Packer fan and "defender", and his level of absolutely extraordinary b.s. could be put to use in a more positive endeavor. :P

    Now, at the same time, had the Pack in fact folded somewhere along the way and I became a Vikes fan, at least I know that not only would I be assisting in debunking so many silly misconceptions, someone here might actually believe me. :laugh:
    Once you can disprove my alleged "BS", you can label it as such. Until such time, I suggest a little less spin.

    Caine

  8. #28
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    For starters, you can go back and read the language in your link to the prove "loan from Halas" to the Pack.
    Halas loaned the Packers money once to allow them to stay in business. During the Great Depression, the Packers took an IOU for $2,500 from Halas instead of forcing him to pay them for their share of gate receipts from a game. Halas paid the Packers nearly a year later.

    So, according to YOUR OWN SOURCE that you cited as "proof", Halas not only loaned the Packers money, he paid them back, lol

    Nice source!

    I'm not angry, I'm bored, that's different, plus kind enough not to bring up any recent history, if we want to start talking about what "I'm leaving out", lol

  9. #29
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1089846
    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089842
    :P In order to go into any more depth I may be forced to punch holes in the paneling of my hand built single-wide trailer and drag out the sports pages from the era that I used as insulation. :P

    All I was pointing out was the fact that Halas was very instrumental in the Vikings becoming an NFL franchise. The motivations are relevant, but don't in any way refute my assertion, and frankly, I can't think of a logical interpretation of history that would refute it.

    In the "keep it coming" category, I'll go with this one...

    The Minnesota Vikings WERE an AFL team.

    In 1959, Winter and Boyer formed your Minnesota Vikings as one of the AFL teams. In January of 1960 they withdrew from the AFL and were awarded an NFL franchise (by Halas and associates, lol) two days later, to begin play in 1961, per my previous contingency of selling 25k in season tickets.

    How am I doing on the esoteric trivia? :P
    So, the mere fact that George Halas was the Chairman of the Expansion committee - the same Chairman that wanted to up the League to 16 teams - and that same committee lobbied the ALREADY AFL FRANCHISE HOLDING owners group in Minnesota to switch to the NFL...somehow we're now MORE indebted to Halas than Green Bay is?

    Too funny...

    Caine
    I heard that your (back-water) AFL franchise holding owners were rumored to be offering deviant sexual services to that NFL committee in order to possibly be considered for inclusion in the NFL, so our sources must be different. :laugh: perhaps that is where our departure in perspective arises.

  10. #30
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    Re: allow more publicly owned teams

    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089850
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1089846
    Quote Originally Posted by "dfosterf" #1089842
    :P In order to go into any more depth I may be forced to punch holes in the paneling of my hand built single-wide trailer and drag out the sports pages from the era that I used as insulation. :P

    All I was pointing out was the fact that Halas was very instrumental in the Vikings becoming an NFL franchise. The motivations are relevant, but don't in any way refute my assertion, and frankly, I can't think of a logical interpretation of history that would refute it.

    In the "keep it coming" category, I'll go with this one...

    The Minnesota Vikings WERE an AFL team.

    In 1959, Winter and Boyer formed your Minnesota Vikings as one of the AFL teams. In January of 1960 they withdrew from the AFL and were awarded an NFL franchise (by Halas and associates, lol) two days later, to begin play in 1961, per my previous contingency of selling 25k in season tickets.

    How am I doing on the esoteric trivia? :P
    So, the mere fact that George Halas was the Chairman of the Expansion committee - the same Chairman that wanted to up the League to 16 teams - and that same committee lobbied the ALREADY AFL FRANCHISE HOLDING owners group in Minnesota to switch to the NFL...somehow we're now MORE indebted to Halas than Green Bay is?

    Too funny...

    Caine
    I heard that your (back-water) AFL franchise holding owners were rumored to be offering deviant sexual services to that NFL committee in order to possibly be considered for inclusion in the NFL, so our sources must be different. :laugh:
    way to stick on topic. How about the NFL wanted to squash the AFL so offered AFL cities NFL franchises.

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