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  1. #1
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Allen no longer in substance abuse program

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/29722184.html

    Allen no longer in substance abuse program

    The Vikings' defensive end has been cleared from the NFL program because he has had no violations in two years.

    [size=9pt]By JUDD ZULGAD, Star Tribune [/size]

    Jared Allen didn't make a big deal of it when he received the letter from NFL this month, but there was no dismissing its importance.

    After two years, the Pro Bowl defensive end was no longer in the league's substance abuse program. "I don't have to tell them where I travel to anymore," Allen said. "I'm back to being a normal citizen in the NFL."

    This is important because Allen was considered to be in Stage 2 of the program and could have faced a one-year suspension if he had another offense. That is no longer the case.

    ...
    Very good news.

    For the Vikings as a team and for Allen as a man.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  2. #2
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: Allen no longer in substance abuse program

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/29722184.html

    Allen no longer in substance abuse program

    The Vikings' defensive end has been cleared from the NFL program because he has had no violations in two years.

    [size=9pt]By JUDD ZULGAD, Star Tribune [/size]

    Jared Allen didn't make a big deal of it when he received the letter from NFL this month, but there was no dismissing its importance.

    After two years, the Pro Bowl defensive end was no longer in the league's substance abuse program. "I don't have to tell them where I travel to anymore," Allen said. "I'm back to being a normal citizen in the NFL."

    This is important because Allen was considered to be in Stage 2 of the program and could have faced a one-year suspension if he had another offense. That is no longer the case.

    ...
    Very good news.

    For the Vikings as a team and for Allen as a man.
    An important note from that article is that, while Allen is no longer subject to the terms of the substance abuse program, if he gets in trouble with the law, past misdeeds will be used by Goodell in determining punishment.


    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  3. #3
    Billy Boy is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Allen no longer in substance abuse program

    That's great!
    He deserves a celabratory drink.


    All the kids my age pee their pants, it's the coolest.

  4. #4
    jdvike's Avatar
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    Re: Allen no longer in substance abuse program

    "Billy" wrote:
    That's great!
    He deserves a celabratory drink.
    You're as funny as a train wreck.

  5. #5
    happy camper's Avatar
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    Re: Allen no longer in substance abuse program

    "Billy" wrote:
    That's great!
    He deserves a celabratory drink.
    Maybe you don't realize this but people in recovery cannot have a "celebratory" drink.
    "There is good and there is evil. And evil must be punished. Even in the face of Armageddon I will not compromise."

  6. #6
    StillPurple is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Allen no longer in substance abuse program

    Sorry, but now that this thread has turned into a social sciences/psychology/addiction research post, I just need to add my $ 0.02:

    - The notion that ex-substance abusers can "never drink again" or use again is highly suspect, given current, worldwide research since about 1990. The AA "one drink, one drunk" mantra is not backed up by any real scientific research, but is based on religious dogma.

    - The "Recovery Industry" has a vested interest in maintaining the myth that:
    a. People cannot get better on their own, and that
    b. "Recovery" is a "life-long process", etc.


    They perpetuate the myth that only they (the recovery centers, etc.) have "the Cure", and it is abstinence. This is unfortunately the "one size fits all" approach that we have in the U.S. (other countries take a very different approach).

    There is a small percentage of substance abusers who "can/should never drink again", but it is about 5 % to 10%.

    Ok, now all the AA people will post here and tell me that I am wrong...

    Actually, the notion of "one drink, one drunk" is a highly dangerous idea, and I really hope that Allen doesn't buy into it. It actually pre-disposes people to binge drinking. Their logic goes like this: "Oh god, I took a drink, now I am out of control". They then proceed to get totally out of control for days on end. This happens all the time, based on the AA mantra of "one drink, one drunk". There is even a term for this in psychology, called "the abstinence violation rebound effect".

    What ex-addicts and substance abusers should be told is the dangers of dangerous consumption. They then should be questioned about what they value in life, and how their use has harmed that (work, family, etc.). They then are left the option of whether to continue using, but are strongly counselled to use (alcohol) in moderation. Actually, moderation is the best antidote to excess, not abstinence.

    Unfortunately, we live in a very moralistic, religious society that values "abstinence" and punishes moderation. I truly hope that Allen learns moderation, or chooses abstinence on his own, but doesn't fall under the highly dangerous notions I listed above, which AA perpetuates, despite an absolute dearth of scientific data.

  7. #7
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Allen no longer in substance abuse program

    "StillPurple" wrote:
    Sorry, but now that this thread has turned into a social sciences/psychology/addiction research post, I just need to add my $ 0.02:

    - The notion that ex-substance abusers can "never drink again" or use again is highly suspect, given current, worldwide research since about 1990. The AA "one drink, one drunk" mantra is not backed up by any real scientific research, but is based on religious dogma.

    - The "Recovery Industry" has a vested interest in maintaining the myth that:
    a. People cannot get better on their own, and that
    b. "Recovery" is a "life-long process", etc.


    They perpetuate the myth that only they (the recovery centers, etc.) have "the Cure", and it is abstinence. This is unfortunately the "one size fits all" approach that we have in the U.S. (other countries take a very different approach).

    There is a small percentage of substance abusers who "can/should never drink again", but it is about 5 % to 10%.

    Ok, now all the AA people will post here and tell me that I am wrong...

    Actually, the notion of "one drink, one drunk" is a highly dangerous idea, and I really hope that Allen doesn't buy into it. It actually pre-disposes people to binge drinking. Their logic goes like this: "Oh god, I took a drink, now I am out of control". They then proceed to get totally out of control for days on end. This happens all the time, based on the AA mantra of "one drink, one drunk". There is even a term for this in psychology, called "the abstinence violation rebound effect".

    What ex-addicts and substance abusers should be told is the dangers of dangerous consumption. They then should be questioned about what they value in life, and how their use has harmed that (work, family, etc.). They then are left the option of whether to continue using, but are strongly counselled to use (alcohol) in moderation. Actually, moderation is the best antidote to excess, not abstinence.

    Unfortunately, we live in a very moralistic, religious society that values "abstinence" and punishes moderation. I truly hope that Allen learns moderation, or chooses abstinence on his own, but doesn't fall under the highly dangerous notions I listed above, which AA perpetuates, despite an absolute dearth of scientific data.
    A lot of what you say is correct, but it is tainted by your obvious dislike of recovery programs, such as AA.
    While you are correct that most programs such as AA are backed by religious dogma, there is no questioning that the program works for many people.
    Does it work for all, not by any means.
    In fact, it can be a harmful road to recovery for some.
    But so can the idea of moderation.
    The fact is that there is no one right way to get over an addiction, but several different ways that may or may not work for the individual.
    As someone who is familiar with psychology, you should know better than to campaign against a specific solution.
    Don't purport that AA is a dangerous program.
    It can be dangerous to some, but it can be highly successful for others.
    As can any kind of treatment.

    And bringing Abstinence Violation Rebound into it was masterful.
    It definately contributes to the relapse binges.
    But when theory dropping you should include all of the information, instead of implying that it was a recognized psychological term for addictive relapse.
    Granted, it has been several years since I have been in the industry, but I am familiar with the theory.
    (In the mid 80's when the theory caught on it was actually in reference to child molesters and sexual deviants.)
    It explains addictive behaviors, not necessarily physical addictions, and there is ample evidence that the physical addiction to some addictive substances can have just as much effect on relapses.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #8
    vikes2456's Avatar
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    Re: Allen no longer in substance abuse program

    "happy" wrote:
    "Billy" wrote:
    That's great!
    He deserves a celabratory drink.
    Maybe you don't realize this but people in recovery cannot have a "celebratory" drink.
    I'm fairly sure he was joking

  9. #9
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    Re: Allen no longer in substance abuse program

    "StillPurple" wrote:
    Sorry, but now that this thread has turned into a social sciences/psychology/addiction research post, I just need to add my $ 0.02:

    - The notion that ex-substance abusers can "never drink again" or use again is highly suspect, given current, worldwide research since about 1990. The AA "one drink, one drunk" mantra is not backed up by any real scientific research, but is based on religious dogma.

    - The "Recovery Industry" has a vested interest in maintaining the myth that:
    a. People cannot get better on their own, and that
    b. "Recovery" is a "life-long process", etc.


    They perpetuate the myth that only they (the recovery centers, etc.) have "the Cure", and it is abstinence. This is unfortunately the "one size fits all" approach that we have in the U.S. (other countries take a very different approach).

    There is a small percentage of substance abusers who "can/should never drink again", but it is about 5 % to 10%.

    Ok, now all the AA people will post here and tell me that I am wrong...

    Actually, the notion of "one drink, one drunk" is a highly dangerous idea, and I really hope that Allen doesn't buy into it. It actually pre-disposes people to binge drinking. Their logic goes like this: "Oh god, I took a drink, now I am out of control". They then proceed to get totally out of control for days on end. This happens all the time, based on the AA mantra of "one drink, one drunk". There is even a term for this in psychology, called "the abstinence violation rebound effect".

    What ex-addicts and substance abusers should be told is the dangers of dangerous consumption. They then should be questioned about what they value in life, and how their use has harmed that (work, family, etc.). They then are left the option of whether to continue using, but are strongly counselled to use (alcohol) in moderation. Actually, moderation is the best antidote to excess, not abstinence.

    Unfortunately, we live in a very moralistic, religious society that values "abstinence" and punishes moderation. I truly hope that Allen learns moderation, or chooses abstinence on his own, but doesn't fall under the highly dangerous notions I listed above, which AA perpetuates, despite an absolute dearth of scientific data.
    LMAO! Once again you come here & push your scientology bullshit & think that alcoholics can have that one drink. I disagree with you whole-heartedly.

    Being an alcoholic myself, I know the dangers of that first drink as do millions of others in recovery. I've seen me do it only to fall back into the hell I crawled out of. I've witnessed many others do it as well. It is only after we discover that we can no longer have that first drink, that we understand better what alcoholism does to us.

    It took me three times to get on the road to recovery, failing twice before by fooling & lying to myself that I could drink in moderation. Millions go thru the same exact thing before they finally "get it".

    To come here & spew some numbers that are probably propaganda off some scientology site and try to pass them off as fact is laughable. No one that I know of who took one drink cried “Oh god, I took a drink, now I am out of control" and continue to drink because they feel at that point they must go all out & make it worthwile.

    As with all addicts, I drink, 1 drug
    or 1 cigarette after quitting will lead to another, than another & another until they are right back to where they were they left off or worse.

    I will not take that 1 drink because I know it will lead to many more afterwards & it has everything to do with the addiction & nothing whatsoever of any religious dogma.

    Someone who abuses drugs or alcohol on occasion are not necessarily alcoholics or addicts. You need to make that distinct separation.

    Do you actually believe a crack or heroine addict, an alcoholic or even someone addicted to cigarettes can actually use them in moderation? I again disagree with that.

    Ask anyone here who is in recovery from their addiction of have family that is & see what they have to say. I bet they disagree with you also.

    It irks me somewhat when someone posts on here what they think is accurate or truth & spew out some things they claim to be fact, without being knowledgeable of the subject & have never suffering or in recovery from the addiction themselves.

    You have never been to an AA meeting as most of them are closed, so don’t profess to claim all of them are of religious background or dogma as I, who has been to several hundred will tell you they are all not.

    Where is this absolute dearth of scientific data you speak of?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #10
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    Re: Allen no longer in substance abuse program

    While I am not an alcoholic ... my best friend since grade school is - I have known him for 23 years.
    He has gotten clean once ... and I thought for sure that I had my good friend back. We got to hang out a bunch ... talk sports ... all that good shit while he was clean of alcohol and his other vice, weed ... but alas it did not last.
    For ANYONE to deny the fact that one drink is all it takes clearly does not know what the fuck they are talking about. Sure, it is true that a lot of "alcoholics" could learn to drink in moderation because they are not really alcoholics ... but a true alcoholic ... one drink and they are done. I have seen it with my own eyes.
    Opening up a little here ... I am a very serious Atheist. I do not consider myself an agnostic in any shape or form. I am almost anti-religion, but not quite. I find religion somewhat trite, blind and downright silly at times. And I fully understand that much of AA has its base in religious roots. I still think it is one of the greatest programs on the face of the Earth.
    To bash it just to prove you anti-religious point is silly and ignorant. If Jared Allen has one god damn drink ... get him off of this team, because he is done. That is how it is when you are addicted to something ... whether it is alcohol, heroin, PP.O, sex or sex with sheep. Once you move past it ... you cannot go back ... not even in moderation.

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