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  1. #111
    MaxVike's Avatar
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    Perhaps, the GM is actually doing his job... Who says he is going to let JA hit the FA market? That is an unfounded assumption and a sky is falling premise. My guess, and, how I would handle the JA situation is, when the season is over, negotiate a new contract. If they can't get it done, then Franchise Tag or Transition Tag are options which I would deploy. Frankly, the Transition Tag is the way to go in this situation, if need be...IMHO.

    Here is a potentially helpful link... NFL Franchise Tags and Transition Tags

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  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVike View Post
    Perhaps, the GM is actually doing his job... Who says he is going to let JA hit the FA market? That is an unfounded assumption and a sky is falling premise. My guess, and, how I would handle the JA situation is, when the season is over, negotiate a new contract. If they can't get it done, then Franchise Tag or Transition Tag are options which I would deploy. Frankly, the Transition Tag is the way to go in this situation, if need be...IMHO.

    Here is a potentially helpful link... NFL Franchise Tags and Transition Tags
    And the other FAs?

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    And the other FAs?
    This Thread is about Jared Allen. Which, is what my post is about. Rather than try to lure me into a debate unrelated, how about you provide your point of view to my post?

    And, if you haven't gathered, I don't subscribe to the sky is falling mentality.

    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent
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    As a matter of fact, I do know

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post

    My point was that they should have fixed this earlier offseason, they should fix it now, and it makes no sense for it to carry into the new season and keep us from addressing other needs I.E LB and the fact that we have 2 other "starting" DEs that we can't resign. You can't convince me that this situation is being handled the best way possible.
    So tell me how the hell you would do it?

    1) we are at the top of the salary cap right now which means we cant just give him more money.
    2) If we reno his contract and give him an up front bonus then that bonus is prorated over the term of the new deal and it takes money away from the team they need to spend on other players. You are concerned about having no DT's signed and their contracts are up but guess what- if we give Allen a bonus that gets levied against additional years that is going to reduce the money we have to sign those players in those years.

    I don't have to be a contract expert to tell that the FO dropped the ball here. It's simple... really simple...

    Funny- You always say it is simple-real simple. But when I ask you to lay out how you would do it you claim you can do it.Well, maybe because it really isn't that simple and that part is going over your head. If it were that simple everyone in the league including the Vikings would do it flawlessly. It's not.


    We are stuck in a really bad position with the face of our defense.
    The reason why we are in bad shape(if we are) is because we gave him a big contract that pushed the bulk of the contract to the later years of the deal. The same exact thing you are proposing the Vikings should do with him again and with other players. IMHO that is not a smart way to go.



    One that is affecting the young players on our team in 1 of 2 ways. 1) Why should they feel they would be rewarded for their play when we won't take care of the team captain, who gives his all.
    Conjecture.


    2) They may hit FA and hear get woo'ed by other teams, especially if they have a big season this year.
    And that only happens because of JA? Seriously? Well, AP is taken care of, Greenway is taken care of, Jennings was just taken care of. It seems to me there are plenty of guys who are being taken care of.

    But yeah, if the team signs a few old vets to back loaded reno's you can bet we will not have the cap room to sign some of them and they will leave.




    Because of this we do not have a lot of our core players in good contracts.
    Good for who? The players or the team?



    If we were to win the Super Bowl this season...the vultures will try to pick us clean.
    Yeah, that never happens to other teams.


    Right now in 2013 we don't have a DL and that's scary.
    Well, this is 2013 if i am not mistaken and last time i looked we had a DL. Did you see something happen the rest of the world didn't?

    If you mean 2014, isn't that the year you want to have the signing bonuses of all of these players kicking in? if so where will the money come to pay them?

  5. #115
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    I'm not sure at the moment Jared Allen would be interested in a contract like Freeney or Umenyiora got this year at 8-8.5 a year with a possiblity of getting up a total of 13 million with the incentives but thats seems to be where the market was for the over 30 DE's and John Abraham still doesn't have a team, thats with Allen getting his 14 now. Next year there is a pretty good chance Julius Pepper will be on the market as well since the Bears will have to do something with Jay Cutler and Pepper is tying up a big amount of their cap.

    Then I think you can look at how Jared did last year, yes he was injuried with a shoulder and had his knee cleaned up. If he bounces back to 2011 form then sure look at doing a deal during the season but if something else happens healthwise and he has problems it could be time to visit this stuff in the off season with the risk of moving on with out him. A some point it does become a business issue and I wasn't happy when the Vikings let john Randle go over his contract but sometime it has to happen.

  6. #116
    smegmavike is offline Coordinator
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    If he has a great season he may likely, find a team willing to pay more than the Vikings. If he has an average to slightly above average season, he may stay at a reduced salary like Kevin Williams has done.
    If he has a less than average season, he will be done here.

    Chances are good he moves on in free agency.

    I think he deserves to get paid what he was promised. He's earned it. But it can't continue.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVike View Post
    This Thread is about Jared Allen. Which, is what my post is about. Rather than try to lure me into a debate unrelated, how about you provide your point of view to my post?

    And, if you haven't gathered, I don't subscribe to the sky is falli
    Thereng mentality.
    I'm not trying to lure anything. Keep your attitude sonny.
    There is nothing "sky is falling" about my mentality.
    I have said and will go on record that we have done some great things(FO)
    However, they have dropped the ball in several areas keeping them from being a great FO and I find them average to below average. How you can translate that to the sky is falling is beyond my scope.
    Last edited by kevoncox; 05-31-2013 at 06:54 AM.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    So tell me how the hell you would do it?

    1) we are at the top of the salary cap right now which means we cant just give him more money.
    2) If we reno his contract and give him an up front bonus then that bonus is prorated over the term of the new deal and it takes money away from the team they need to spend on other players. You are concerned about having no DT's signed and their contracts are up but guess what- if we give Allen a bonus that gets levied against additional years that is going to reduce the money we have to sign those players in those years.




    Funny- You always say it is simple-real simple. But when I ask you to lay out how you would do it you claim you can do it.Well, maybe because it really isn't that simple and that part is going over your head. If it were that simple everyone in the league including the Vikings would do it flawlessly. It's not.



    The reason why we are in bad shape(if we are) is because we gave him a big contract that pushed the bulk of the contract to the later years of the deal. The same exact thing you are proposing the Vikings should do with him again and with other players. IMHO that is not a smart way to go.





    Conjecture.



    And that only happens because of JA? Seriously? Well, AP is taken care of, Greenway is taken care of, Jennings was just taken care of. It seems to me there are plenty of guys who are being taken care of.

    But yeah, if the team signs a few old vets to back loaded reno's you can bet we will not have the cap room to sign some of them and they will leave.




    Good for who? The players or the team?





    Yeah, that never happens to other teams.




    Well, this is 2013 if i am not mistaken and last time i looked we had a DL. Did you see something happen the rest of the world didn't?

    If you mean 2014, isn't that the year you want to have the signing bonuses of all of these players kicking in? if so where will the money come to pay them?
    Still not getting through to you...
    I can say George W Bush was a terrible president. Do I have to know how to sign a bill into law to prove he was? No, I could simply look at the state of the country after his term. The comparisom of the his presidency is to other presidents, other world leaders. Now if I had said...I could be president. that would be different and then you seeking my qualifications to do so would be applicable....

    Flash back to the issue at hand....
    Our FO handles player signings poorly. They are a below average FO in many of their tasks.
    You asking me to provide a contract for JA is asenine as it neither proves or disproves my remark.

    Yet, I'll bite.
    I would give Jared Allen a 7 year - 70 million dollar contract. His signing bonus will be 50 million and I will pay it as 1 million for the first 6 years +salary and the rest all in the 7th year. That's my contract. It's laughable. It's funny. Now disprove it. Show me where we we won't have 43 million in cap space in 7 years to afford him. Prove to me that he won't accept it. You can't as it's all conjecture. So instead of trying to prove what I personally know or don't know about salary caps...you can focus on the fact I beleive that the FO could have done a better job.

  9. #119
    MaxVike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVike View Post
    This Thread is about Jared Allen. Which, is what my post is about. Rather than try to lure me into a debate unrelated, how about you provide your point of view to my post?

    And, if you haven't gathered, I don't subscribe to the sky is falli
    Thereng mentality.
    I'm not trying to lure anything. Keep your attitude sonny.
    There is nothing "sky is falling" about my mentality.
    I have said and will go on record that we have done some great things(FO)
    However, they have dropped the ball in several areas keeping them from being a great FO and I find them average to below average. How you can translate that to the sky is falling is beyond my scope.
    You, are calling me, "sonny?" That's fucking rich.

    Still, no comment on my point re: Jared Allen.

    Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent
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  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVike View Post
    You, are calling me, "sonny?" That's fucking rich.

    Still, no comment on my point re: Jared Allen.
    Thought it would make your day

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