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  1. #61
    singersp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikinggreg View Post
    Again it appears you are the one using the term of sheer genius here as I stated earlier and I did look on another fan site
    :Face Palm:

    I apologize for not listing every possible synonym or alternative word possible in the English language that fans/critics may have used to call Spielman's trade incredible, shrewd, genius, brilliant, spectacular, etc.

    It was a good trade, but that's where it ends. The Rams only one pick ahead of us made a great deal.

    What do you think Spielman would have done if we owned the 2nd pick of the draft? Would he have traded it to Washington for their 6th & possibly lose out on Kalil? Would he have taken RGIII?

    What would you have wanted him to do?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  2. #62
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    As for the Spialman Bleacher quote from march both do have a checkered past one as a blog that now does employee a few professional writers and the other as a GM with the fins that didn't have a very good draft history in the past with with only spots here and there. From his history this would appear to be his most rounded and successful year but most draft classes do take a good 3 years before their grading is truly complete.

    As for having the 2nd pick over all......thats just conjecture and speculation and can be filed with what if Gary Anderson did miss the FG in 98 or Robert Griffith did drop the 4th quarter interception in the end zone or Brett Favre didn't get hurt in the 09 playoff game or 12 players weren't in the huddle after a time out or Greenway didn't get a BS PI call against him.

    But I don't think he would have drafted RGIII cause they had a 3 year plan with Ponder (whether that is true or the right thing is a different story) so they probably would have traded down and I doubt they would have trade back up to get Kalil and if Kalil was gone would Spielman might have traded down again like the Rams did

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    :Face Palm:

    I apologize for not listing every possible synonym or alternative word possible in the English language that fans/critics may have used to call Spielman's trade incredible, shrewd, genius, brilliant, spectacular, etc.

    It was a good trade, but that's where it ends. The Rams only one pick ahead of us made a great deal.

    What do you think Spielman would have done if we owned the 2nd pick of the draft? Would he have traded it to Washington for their 6th & possibly lose out on Kalil? Would he have taken RGIII?

    What would you have wanted him to do?
    I would say it was a great trade. It not comparable to the Rams' trade because we weren't in the same situation. Who knows what he would have done? It is moot though, because we did not have the second pick.

    I also think that shrewd a good description of the trade. And I don't think that "shrewd" and "sheer genius" mean the same thing at all. Had you accused me of calling Spielman shrewd in the draft I would have agreed.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by NodakPaul View Post
    I would say it was a great trade. It not comparable to the Rams' trade because we weren't in the same situation. Who knows what he would have done? It is moot though, because we did not have the second pick.

    I also think that shrewd a good description of the trade. And I don't think that "shrewd" and "sheer genius" mean the same thing at all. Had you accused me of calling Spielman shrewd in the draft I would have agreed.

    And other teams weren't necessarily in a position to slide down & still get their man either, so we were in a prime spot to make a trade that wasn't detrimental to us at all. The Rams weren't looking for a QB, so they could easily afford to slide down as well.

    Not sure why you're playing the "accused" card. I never accused you of calling Spielman a genius in the first place.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikinggreg View Post
    As for the Spialman Bleacher quote from march both do have a checkered past one as a blog that now does employee a few professional writers and the other as a GM with the fins that didn't have a very good draft history in the past with with only spots here and there. From his history this would appear to be his most rounded and successful year but most draft classes do take a good 3 years before their grading is truly complete.
    Which, based on what you just said, coupled with similar if not worse moves in our 2012 FA is why I'm was not particularly fond of Spielman heading into the 2012 draft.

    He had a good draft, one of our better ones, but he also had the #3 pick, 3 #4 picks & 10 picks overall to work with before the draft ever started.

    It's been a long time since we had that high of a pick & that many. Not to many people are taking that into account. It may be just my opinion, but I think chances are greater to get better draft picks when you're picking 3rd overall rather than picking mid to late round, which is what we've been mostly doing for many years.
    Last edited by singersp; 12-29-2012 at 01:47 PM.

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  6. #66
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    There is no question you are more likely to be successful drafting early in the 1st round. I think everyone is aware of that. There are however, plenty of instances where those picks do not work out. Once you get past the first 40 picks or so, the position in the round does not matter anymore. It is identifying talent from then on. RS also picked up a second pro bowl caliber player,IMO, in Smith. I do not remember any of us clamoring for him on here on draft day. I also remember a lot of complaining about using a draft pick on a kicker. Jarius is looking like a pretty good pick also,as is Josh. Audi Cole has moved into the bakup MLB slot and Asiata actually looked like he has potential in preseason.
    So, drafting in the third spot did benefit Rick, but he seems to have done pretty well once he got past the benefit of that.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  7. #67
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    drafts that i remember (based on it being in my head without having to go look up who was drafted when). i can't tell you who we drafted besides Moss, but I remember all the friends of mine back then laughing as we got a druggie with an attitude.. Or who we also drafted with AP.. but i remember people saying he's good, but fragile.. This draft has 4 NFL starters, but no ROY. Walsh and Smith could have produced a ROY but luck/RGIII made that mute.. the point is, if you remember a draft 5+ years down the road saying that was what us over the top.. then yeah it will be, i can see that heppening because of the 3-13 year, but not because of the draft itself.

    for me this draft like the previous is adding talent to required areas. it was a good draft, but not one of the best we've ever seen. The fact that rookie's help turn around and improve each of the 3 phases of the vikes just shows where we were at last year talent wise. we had massive needs across the board. some were filled, others were added depth to grow.

    it'll be interesting now that we have say less gaping holes, and more identifiable needs this coming draft will be one to pay closer attention to.

    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

  8. #68
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    If it is remembered for anything hopefully it is not for being an anomaly surrounded by several drafts that had marginal productivity but rather a turning point where we finally get productive starters outside of the first round.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    If it is remembered for anything hopefully it is not for being an anomaly surrounded by several drafts that had marginal productivity but rather a turning point where we finally get productive starters outside of the first round.
    Going back 20 years. There were quite a few damn good players we got outside of the 1st round.

    Year No. Round Pick Player Name Position College
    2012 1 1 4 4 Matt Kalil T USC
    2 1 29 29 Harrison Smith DB Notre Dame
    3 3 3 66 Josh Robinson DB Central Florida
    4 4 23 118 Jarius Wright WR Arkansas
    5 4 33 128 Rhett Ellison RB USC
    6 4 39 134 Greg Childs WR Arkansas
    7 5 4 139 Robert Blanton DB Notre Dame
    8 6 5 175 Blair Walsh K Georgia
    9 7 3 210 Audie Cole LB North Carolina State
    10 7 12 219 Trevor Guyton DE California
    2011 1 1 12 12 Christian Ponder QB Florida State
    2 2 11 43 Kyle Rudolph TE Notre Dame
    3 4 9 106 Christian Ballard DT Iowa
    4 5 8 139 Brandon Burton DB Utah
    5 6 3 168 Demarcus Love G Arkansas
    6 6 5 170 Mistral Raymond DB South Florida
    7 6 7 172 Brandon Fusco C Slippery Rock
    8 6 35 200 Ross Homan LB Ohio State
    9 7 12 215 D'Aundre Reed DE Arizona
    10 7 33 236 Stephen Burton WR West Texas A&M
    2010 1 2 2 34 Chris Cook DB Virginia
    2 2 19 51 Toby Gerhart RB Stanford
    3 4 2 100 Everson Griffin DE USC
    4 5 30 161 Chris DeGeare G Wake Forest
    5 5 36 167 Nathan Triplett LB Minnesota
    6 6 30 199 Joe Webb QB Alabama-Birmingham
    7 7 7 214 Mickey Shuler TE Penn State
    8 7 30 237 Ryan D'Imperio LB Rutgers
    2009 1 1 22 22 Percy Harvin WR Florida
    2 2 22 54 Phil Loadholt T Oklahoma
    3 3 22 86 Asher Allen DB Georgia
    4 5 14 150 Jasper Brinkley LB South Carolina
    5 7 22 231 Jamarca Sanford DB Mississippi
    2008 1 2 12 43 Tyrell Johnson DB Arkansas State
    2 5 2 137 John David Booty QB USC
    3 5 17 152 Letroy Guion DT Florida State
    4 6 21 187 John Sullivan C Notre Dame
    5 6 27 193 Jaymar Johnson WR Jackson State
    2007 1 1 7 7 Adrian Peterson RB Oklahoma
    2 2 12 44 Sidney Rice WR South Carolina
    3 3 8 72 Marcus McCauley DB Fresno State
    4 4 3 102 Brian Robison DE Texas
    5 5 9 146 Aundrae Allison WR East Carolina
    6 6 2 176 Rufus Alexander LB Oklahoma
    7 7 7 217 Tyler Thigpen QB Coastal Carolina
    8 7 23 233 Chandler Williams WR Florida International
    2006 1 1 17 17 Chad Greenway LB Iowa
    2 2 16 48 Cedric Griffin DB Texas
    3 2 19 51 Ryan Cook C New Mexico
    4 2 32 64 Tarvaris Jackson QB Alabama State
    5 4 30 127 Ray Edwards DE Purdue
    6 5 17 149 Greg Blue DB Georgia
    2005 1 1 7 7 Troy Williamson WR South Carolina
    2 1 18 18 Erasmus James DE Wisconsin
    3 2 17 49 Marcus Johnson T Mississippi
    4 3 16 80 Dustin Fox DB Ohio State
    5 4 11 112 Ciatrick Fason RB Florida
    6 6 17 191 C.J. Mosley DT Missouri
    7 7 5 219 Adrian Ward DB Texas-El Paso
    2004 1 1 20 20 Kenechi Udeze DE USC
    2 2 16 48 Dontarrious Thomas LB Auburn
    3 3 25 88 Darrion Scott DE Ohio State
    4 4 19 115 Nat Dorsey T Georgia Tech
    5 4 23 119 Mewelde Moore RB Tulane
    6 5 23 155 Rod Davis LB Southern Mississippi
    7 6 19 184 Deandre Eiland' DB South Carolina
    8 7 19 220 Jeff Dugan TE Maryland
    2003 1 1 9 9 Kevin Williams DE Oklahoma State
    2 2 8 40 E.J. Henderson LB Maryland
    3 3 7 71 Nate Burleson WR Nevada
    4 4 8 105 Onterrio Smith RB Oregon
    5 6 7 180 Eddie Johnson P Idaho State
    6 6 17 190 Michael Nattiel LB Florida
    7 7 7 221 Keenan Howry WR Oregon
    2002 1 1 7 7 Bryant McKinnie T Miami (FL)
    2 2 6 38 Raonall Smith LB Washington State
    3 3 5 70 Willie Offord DB South Carolina
    4 4 7 105 Brian Williams DB North Carolina State
    5 4 34 132 Edward Ta'amu G Utah
    6 6 5 177 Nick Rogers LB Georgia Tech
    7 7 7 218 Chad Beasley DT Virginia Tech
    2001 1 1 27 27 Michael Bennett RB Wisconsin
    2 2 26 57 Willie Howard DT Stanford
    3 3 7 69 Eric Kelly DB Kentucky
    4 4 35 130 Shawn Worthen DT Texas Christian
    5 4 36 131 Cedric James WR Texas Christian
    6 5 26 157 Patrick Chukwurah LB Wyoming
    7 6 26 189 Carey Scott DB Kentucky State
    8 7 25 225 Brian Crawford T Western Oregon
    2000 1 1 25 25 Chris Hovan DT Boston College
    2 2 24 55 Fred Robbins DT Wake Forest
    3 2 25 56 Michael Boireau DE Miami (FL)
    4 3 26 88 Doug Chapman RB Marshall
    5 4 12 106 Antonio Wilson LB Texas A&M-Commerce
    6 4 24 118 Tyrone Carter DB Minnesota
    7 5 36 165 Troy Walters WR Stanford
    8 7 34 240 Mike Malano C San Diego State
    9 7 38 244 Giles Cole TE Texas A&M-Kingsville
    10 7 42 248 Lewis Kelly G South Carolina State
    1999 1 1 11 11 Daunte Culpepper QB Central Florida
    2 1 29 29 Dimitrius Underwood DE Michigan State
    3 2 13 44 Jim Kleinsasser TE North Dakota
    4 4 25 120 Kenny Wright DB Northwestern State (LA)
    5 4 30 125 Jay Humphrey T Texas
    6 5 36 169 Chris Jones LB Clemson
    7 6 16 185 Talance Sawyer DE UNLV
    8 6 30 199 Antico Dalton LB Hampton
    9 7 30 236 Noel Scarlett DE Langston
    1998 1 1 21 21 Randy Moss WR Marshall
    2 2 21 51 Kailee Wong DE Stanford
    3 3 19 80 Ramos McDonald DB New Mexico
    4 4 18 110 Kivuusama Mays LB North Carolina
    5 5 21 144 Kerry Cooks DB Iowa
    6 6 20 173 Matt Birk T Harvard
    7 7 19 208 Chester Burnett LB Arizona
    8 7 36 225 Tony Darden DB Texas Tech
    1997 1 1 20 20 Dwayne Rudd LB Alabama
    2 2 19 49 Torrian Gray DB Virginia Tech
    3 3 18 78 Stalin Colinet DE Boston College
    4 4 17 113 Antonio Banks DB Virginia Tech
    5 5 21 151 Tony Williams DT Memphis
    6 6 20 183 Robert Tate WR Cincinnati
    7 7 19 220 Artie Ulmer LB Valdosta State
    8 7 34 235 Matthew Hatchette WR Langston
    1996 1 1 16 16 Duane Clemons DE California
    2 2 15 45 James Manley DT Vanderbilt
    3 3 14 75 Moe Williams RB Kentucky
    4 4 2 97 Hunter Goodwin G Texas A&M
    5 5 16 148 Sean Boyd DB North Carolina
    6 7 14 223 Jon Merrill T Duke
    1995 1 1 11 11 Derrick Alexander DE Florida State
    2 1 24 24 Korey Stringer T Ohio State
    3 2 10 42 Orlando Thomas DB Southwestern Louisiana
    4 2 23 55 Corey Fuller DB Florida State
    5 4 13 111 Chad May QB Kansas State
    6 5 23 157 James Stewart RB Miami (FL)
    7 6 18 189 John Solomon LB Sam Houston State
    8 7 24 232 Jose White LB Howard
    9 7 35 243 Jason Fisk DT Stanford
    1994 1 1 18 18 DeWayne Washington DB North Carolina State
    2 1 19 19 Todd Steussie T California
    3 2 11 40 David Palmer WR Alabama
    4 2 26 55 Fernando Smith DE Jackson State
    5 4 22 125 Mike Wells DT Iowa
    6 5 3 134 Shelly Hammonds DB Penn State
    7 6 18 179 Andrew Jordan TE Western Carolina
    8 7 17 211 Pete Bercich LB Notre Dame
    1993 1 1 21 21 Robert Smith RB Ohio State
    2 2 23 52 Qadry Ismail WR Syracuse
    3 3 1 57 John Gerak G Penn State
    4 3 23 79 Gilbert Brown DT Kansas
    5 4 22 106 Ashley Sheppard LB Clemson
    6 5 21 133 Everett Lindsay T Mississippi
    7 7 24 192 Gino Torretta QB Miami (FL)
    1992 1 2 11 39 Robert Harris DE Southern
    2 4 14 98 Roy Barker DT North Carolina
    3 5 13 125 Ed McDaniel LB Clemson
    4 6 12 152 Mike Gaddis RB Oklahoma
    5 7 15 183 David Wilson DB California
    6 8 14 210 Luke Fisher TE East Carolina
    7 9 3 227 Brad Johnson QB Florida State
    8 9 13 237 Ronnie West WR Pittsburg State (KS)
    9 10 12 264 Brad Culpepper DT Florida
    10 11 15 295 Charles Evans RB Clark
    11 12 14 322 Joe Randolph WR Elon

    DraftHistory.com
    Last edited by singersp; 12-30-2012 at 09:51 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by digital420 View Post
    i can't tell you who we drafted besides Moss, but I remember all the friends of mine back then laughing as we got a druggie with an attitude.

    DiGiTaL
    We also got Birk & Wong that year.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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