Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 79
  1. #41
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    3,949
    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple View Post
    I'm just buggin you, but yeah.



    Reason why this is, is that we've never really had a dominant defense that could carry a young QB. Furthermore, we've never drafted a good young QB. Ponder is the third first round QB we've ever drafted. Ever.

    Tommy Kramer, Culpepper and now Ponder are it. Beyond that, great QB's we've drafted? Tarkenton. That's about it.
    I know... and unless we take a chance on a free agent Michael Vick... I dont see us getting better at that position unless Ponder turns it around and stops all that dink and dunk BS.

    When has Spielman ever been able to locate QB talent? trading for Sage Rosenfels twice? a second round pick for AJ Feely? Remember Scott Mitchell FA signing from Detroit? TJack? Ponder??

    Good Lord!!...

    If we're not in a position to draft Matt Barkley next year... Vick may be the best option we have... We are about to have a mutany in the locker room as it is with Ponder playing the way he is...

  2. #42
    tastywaves's Avatar
    tastywaves is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    3,869
    Quote Originally Posted by bleedpurple View Post
    I know... and unless we take a chance on a free agent Michael Vick... I dont see us getting better at that position unless Ponder turns it around and stops all that dink and dunk BS.

    When has Spielman ever been able to locate QB talent? trading for Sage Rosenfels twice? a second round pick for AJ Feely? Remember Scott Mitchell FA signing from Detroit? TJack? Ponder??

    Good Lord!!...

    If we're not in a position to draft Matt Barkley next year... Vick may be the best option we have... We are about to have a mutany in the locker room as it is with Ponder playing the way he is...
    I think Vick will take us backwards. He's about to get one of the strongest coaches in the league for the last 13 years fired. Imagine what he would do to Frazier.

    Not sure Barkley is the answer either. Last year had two elite QB's in the class that look to be as advertised. Next year's group looks like more of the norm, where there may not be a single elite QB prospect available.

    Finding an elite QB is what 20-25 NFL teams are trying to do on an annual basis. Unfortunately, not too many come around.

    I don't have the answer, but for now, I think you have to continue to invest in Ponder. Grade him at the end of the year and if you don't think he is going to be a long term answer, then they'll probably take a flyer in the draft. My guess is that if Ponder even shows slight improvement throughout the remainder of the year, then they will more than likely continue to plan around him, but start tightening up the leash and putting Plan B (whatever that may be) in stronger motion.

  3. #43
    kevoncox's Avatar
    kevoncox is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,910
    Quote Originally Posted by tastywaves View Post
    I think Vick will take us backwards. He's about to get one of the strongest coaches in the league for the last 13 years fired. Imagine what he would do to Frazier.

    Not sure Barkley is the answer either. Last year had two elite QB's in the class that look to be as advertised. Next year's group looks like more of the norm, where there may not be a single elite QB prospect available.

    Finding an elite QB is what 20-25 NFL teams are trying to do on an annual basis. Unfortunately, not too many come around.

    I don't have the answer, but for now, I think you have to continue to invest in Ponder. Grade him at the end of the year and if you don't think he is going to be a long term answer, then they'll probably take a flyer in the draft. My guess is that if Ponder even shows slight improvement throughout the remainder of the year, then they will more than likely continue to plan around him, but start tightening up the leash and putting Plan B (whatever that may be) in stronger motion.
    Why would he be taking us backward. 2 years ago he was a front runner for league MVP!!!!
    I get it, people are still asshurt about the Dog killing and hence his abilities will always be down played. However, every single analyst and anyone with a brain and eyes can tell you the biggest issue is the OL. He has no time. None. They have lost two pro- bowls on the OL and have replaced them with a worst LT than we had last year.

    Also, Vick isn't the reason Reid is on the hot seat. He is on the hot seat because he hired an Offensive coach to coach the defense and then canned him when it clearly didn't work out. He has not have an answer to fixing the defense and on offense he REFUSES to run the ball. He ignores a talent like Shady and continues to call 7 step drops when his OL cannot block it. He is a great coach making poor mistakes and not setting his players up for success. You would think if he QB was struggling that he would run the ball to get it out of his hands... Nope... keep chucking it Vick under pressure and blitzing.

  4. #44
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canadialand
    Posts
    16,777
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Why would he be taking us backward. 2 years ago he was a front runner for league MVP!!!!
    Frontrunner eh? He had an above average season, which was a fantastic season FOR him. The Eagles were a good team then. Compared to the other top QB's he was blown away, and voters realize this. Idiot writers wrote about how he should be MVP because of how much he's improved. Well, there's already an award for that, it's called comeback player of the year. Vick should have been that, NOT MVP.
    I get it, people are still asshurt about the Dog killing and hence his abilities will always be down played.
    I could give less than a shit about dogfighting. It's not even illegal in some states. Was it a good idea? No. Was he doing it for fun? Yeah. Does Singer go out for fun and pull hooks through the lips of fish? Yep. Guess that makes him a terrible person too.

    WHat I don't like is that for his entire career he's been overrated, culminating in the pinnacle of overratedness a couple years ago when he threw for 3300 yards, ran for another 600 and was in MVP talks. Talk about a freaking joke. What people forget about is that year he also threw 14 interceptions. The most in his career. He also fumbled 10 times, losing 4 of them. He turned the ball over 18 times in 13 games. on his career he has 120 turnovers in 101 games. That's pretty pathetic.
    However, every single analyst and anyone with a brain and eyes can tell you the biggest issue is the OL. He has no time. None. They have lost two pro- bowls on the OL and have replaced them with a worst LT than we had last year.
    But to sit there claiming Vick isn't magnifying the problem is straight up ignorance. I get that you have a massive hardon for Vick and other flashy superstars.
    Also, Vick isn't the reason Reid is on the hot seat. He is on the hot seat because he hired an Offensive coach to coach the defense and then canned him when it clearly didn't work out. He has not have an answer to fixing the defense and on offense he REFUSES to run the ball.
    You must be referring to that RB they have who is #6 in the league in carries per game. As a team, the Eagles are 11th in the league with 233 carries. But you of course already knew that since I told you, you just ignore it because you like to pretend that the Eagles REFUSE to run the ball.

    I'd like to share an exerpt I found from a Yahoo article that explains Vick's MVP contention quite well:
    Vick's story isn't remarkable. It's unprecedented. A Pro Bowl quarterback commits heinous acts, is imprisoned for almost two years and essentially loses three years of his career (including 2009, during which Vick was a backup). He then gets to start at the beginning of this season due to injury and shows that he's not just the same player he was four years ago.

    He's much better.
    Translation: NEver before has a QB been put in jail, come back, played as a backup for a year then when asked to start, played above average, which is still so much better than any other season he's ever had.

    Vick was not one of hte best players in the league. Maybe he was most valuable to the Eagles, probably. Should he have ever been in MVP contention? Not a chance.
    Last edited by i_bleed_purple; 11-08-2012 at 03:59 PM.

  5. #45
    tastywaves's Avatar
    tastywaves is offline Ring of Fame
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    3,869
    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Why would he be taking us backward. 2 years ago he was a front runner for league MVP!!!!
    I get it, people are still asshurt about the Dog killing and hence his abilities will always be down played. However, every single analyst and anyone with a brain and eyes can tell you the biggest issue is the OL. He has no time. None. They have lost two pro- bowls on the OL and have replaced them with a worst LT than we had last year.

    Also, Vick isn't the reason Reid is on the hot seat. He is on the hot seat because he hired an Offensive coach to coach the defense and then canned him when it clearly didn't work out. He has not have an answer to fixing the defense and on offense he REFUSES to run the ball. He ignores a talent like Shady and continues to call 7 step drops when his OL cannot block it. He is a great coach making poor mistakes and not setting his players up for success. You would think if he QB was struggling that he would run the ball to get it out of his hands... Nope... keep chucking it Vick under pressure and blitzing.
    Sorry Kevon, I just don't think Vick is the answer here. It has nothing to do with what I think of him as a person, I'm strictly talking about his QB skills. There are teams that I think could get a bit of a spark with him, especially vertically oriented offenses with good WR's...but that's not here in Minny. He'd be a great backup to Big Ben.

    Reid is a west coast guy that stresses accuracy and timing on short to intermediate routes. Vick struggles a lot in this area. Where he excels in the passing game is on deep routes where he throws a great ball providing he has time and a receiver to catch it.

    Reid decided to hitch his wagon on Vick, it hasn't worked out, and now he is on the hot seat. You can say Reid is the reason why Vick didn't work out or you can say that Vick didn't fit Reid's system. Either way it appears to be the major reason Reid's job is in jeopardy.

  6. #46
    kevoncox's Avatar
    kevoncox is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,910
    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple View Post
    Frontrunner eh? He had an above average season, which was a fantastic season FOR him. The Eagles were a good team then. Compared to the other top QB's he was blown away, and voters realize this. Idiot writers wrote about how he should be MVP because of how much he's improved. Well, there's already an award for that, it's called comeback player of the year. Vick should have been that, NOT MVP.
    I could give less than a shit about dogfighting. It's not even illegal in some states. Was it a good idea? No. Was he doing it for fun? Yeah. Does Singer go out for fun and pull hooks through the lips of fish? Yep. Guess that makes him a terrible person too.

    WHat I don't like is that for his entire career he's been overrated, culminating in the pinnacle of overratedness a couple years ago when he threw for 3300 yards, ran for another 600 and was in MVP talks. Talk about a freaking joke. What people forget about is that year he also threw 14 interceptions. The most in his career. He also fumbled 10 times, losing 4 of them. He turned the ball over 18 times in 13 games. on his career he has 120 turnovers in 101 games. That's pretty pathetic.

    But to sit there claiming Vick isn't magnifying the problem is straight up ignorance. I get that you have a massive hardon for Vick and other flashy superstars.

    You must be referring to that RB they have who is #6 in the league in carries per game. As a team, the Eagles are 11th in the league with 233 carries. But you of course already knew that since I told you, you just ignore it because you like to pretend that the Eagles REFUSE to run the ball.

    I'd like to share an exerpt I found from a Yahoo article that explains Vick's MVP contention quite well:


    Translation: NEver before has a QB been put in jail, come back, played as a backup for a year then when asked to start, played above average, which is still so much better than any other season he's ever had.

    Vick was not one of hte best players in the league. Maybe he was most valuable to the Eagles, probably. Should he have ever been in MVP contention? Not a chance.
    I know you think that I really like Vick but to be honest, he isn't even in my top 5 favorite Qbs in the league. What I do reconize is that there are certain players that due to their skillsets, makes it easier for all the other players on the field. Shaq, Randy, etc. Players like these forces defenses to do two things...
    1. Play a scheme drafted primarly for them that is not the scheme they are used to running, which in turns makes them more prone to mistakes.

    2. Pay attention to a lone player, making it more difficult to double up on your others Superstars. Adding a QB like Vick will make Lbs freeze more and less likely to commit to the hole that our Star RB is entering into with that ball. Silly thought I know, but I think AP might be able to do some special things with the ball with 1 or more less LBs hitting him at the LOS. Could a team really Spy on Vick, Peterson and Harvin at the same time? What if we add a WR like Woods or Lee from USC to the mix and Rudolph continues to grow as a player. Suddenly, we have a boat load of threats and a QB that isn't going ot be asked to carry the team. Vick as a game manager would be a great QB. He may not be a AROD but when simply asked to hit Harvin in 1 on 1 coverage, scramble for the first or hand off to Peterson, I can't see him failing like Ponder has to do these simply task. Lastly, he uses his TEs. If we are to be competative next year, he is our best choice at QB.

  7. #47
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canadialand
    Posts
    16,777
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    I know you think that I really like Vick but to be honest, he isn't even in my top 5 favorite Qbs in the league. What I do reconize is that there are certain players that due to their skillsets, makes it easier for all the other players on the field. Shaq, Randy, etc. Players like these forces defenses to do two things...
    1. Play a scheme drafted primarly for them that is not the scheme they are used to running, which in turns makes them more prone to mistakes.
    The trouble is you're comparing two very unique players to a Gadget player. Shaq is virtually uncoverable. Inside the key he was unstoppable. Randy same sort of thing. In his prime he was never really not open. He was faster than anybody on the field, and taller and could jump higher than any DB. He had great hands. Those are hall of fame players, who should be so for a reason. They are guys who if on a good team have very real chances of winning championships, not by themselves, but are great. Vick is not that kind of guy. Vick is a gadget player. Hell, two years ago our crappy team shut him down. He's not a guy nearly at th elevel of Moss or Shaq. He's not unstoppable, Running QBs are able to be removed from a game, and when he can't be relied on to throw without running, he's not that good of a weapon.
    2. Pay attention to a lone player, making it more difficult to double up on your others Superstars. Adding a QB like Vick will make Lbs freeze more and less likely to commit to the hole that our Star RB is entering into with that ball.
    Less disciplined Defenses, yes. For a rushing QB, you need to play disciplined and just play your hole. If everyone plays their assignment, a running QB can be shut down. Trust the guy beside you to do his job, and just focus on your job. Teams have shut AP down doing that, teams have shut Vick down doing that. VIck has had McCoy for hte past two years who is one of the better RBs in the league, but they're not unstoppable.
    Silly thought I know, but I think AP might be able to do some special things with the ball with 1 or more less LBs hitting him at the LOS.
    I disagree. AP's best year (his rookie year IMO) came when he regularly faced 8 man fronts and bust all the long gains. Had he not gotten hurt he could have topped 1900-2000 yards easily. He got hurt, and after missing a few games STILL had the league lead in rushing yards. When teams spread out, or hesitate, yeah AP will get more 3-10 yard gains, which is great, but he seems more lethal when he can cut back into wide open space.
    Could a team really Spy on Vick, Peterson and Harvin at the same time? What if we add a WR like Woods or Lee from USC to the mix and Rudolph continues to grow as a player. Suddenly, we have a boat load of threats and a QB that isn't going ot be asked to carry the team. Vick as a game manager would be a great QB.


    Oh that's funny. THey tried that in Atlanta, asking him to be a 'game manager'. It didn't work. THey tried again in Philly, It didn't really work. His best game managing season he still accounted for 18 turnovers.

  8. #48
    kevoncox's Avatar
    kevoncox is offline Jersey Retired
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,910
    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple View Post
    The trouble is you're comparing two very unique players to a Gadget player. Shaq is virtually uncoverable. Inside the key he was unstoppable. Randy same sort of thing. In his prime he was never really not open. He was faster than anybody on the field, and taller and could jump higher than any DB. He had great hands. Those are hall of fame players, who should be so for a reason. They are guys who if on a good team have very real chances of winning championships, not by themselves, but are great. Vick is not that kind of guy. Vick is a gadget player. Hell, two years ago our crappy team shut him down. He's not a guy nearly at th elevel of Moss or Shaq. He's not unstoppable, Running QBs are able to be removed from a game, and when he can't be relied on to throw without running, he's not that good of a weapon.
    Less disciplined Defenses, yes. For a rushing QB, you need to play disciplined and just play your hole. If everyone plays their assignment, a running QB can be shut down. Trust the guy beside you to do his job, and just focus on your job. Teams have shut AP down doing that, teams have shut Vick down doing that. VIck has had McCoy for hte past two years who is one of the better RBs in the league, but they're not unstoppable.

    I disagree. AP's best year (his rookie year IMO) came when he regularly faced 8 man fronts and bust all the long gains. Had he not gotten hurt he could have topped 1900-2000 yards easily. He got hurt, and after missing a few games STILL had the league lead in rushing yards. When teams spread out, or hesitate, yeah AP will get more 3-10 yard gains, which is great, but he seems more lethal when he can cut back into wide open space.


    Oh that's funny. THey tried that in Atlanta, asking him to be a 'game manager'. It didn't work. THey tried again in Philly, It didn't really work. His best game managing season he still accounted for 18 turnovers.
    In Atlanta it didn't work? They made it to the NFC championship
    They you go talking out you arse again my friend.
    In non of those situations was he a game manager. He was the leader of the offense and expected to be a play maker. Again, he's not my favorite player but I reconize that he is a better player than anyone we have on roster. He will never appear great looking simply at stats but when you are able to wrap your mind around what challenges he brings to a defense, along with his skillset, you see the entire picture. No he is never going to throw for 4500 yards but he is going to take your team to the playoffs and if protected win you some games.

  9. #49
    purplepat is offline Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    1,508
    Why would we want Vick, when we already have Vick Light in the form of Joe Webb? Webb offers virtually the same pocket presence, speed, mobility, and passing accuracy of Vick with the following notable exceptions:

    He's much younger
    He's much cheaper
    He isn't left handed
    He doesn't come with baggage that would make him immediately hated

    Based on the above, I see no need to kick Vick's tires.
    SKOL VIKINGS!

  10. #50
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    52,266
    Quote Originally Posted by bleedpurple View Post
    I never said Jeff George was a star... go back and read the post......

    Actually, yes you did. Re-read the first part of your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by bleedpurple
    You ALL know we have our best seasons with X-NFL stars Favre, McMahon, Moon, George, Cunningham etc... why not try vick...
    Looks pretty convincing that you called George an X-NFL star.
    Last edited by singersp; 11-09-2012 at 05:35 AM.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •