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  1. #21
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    Re: Pass Catching Vikings

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "PAvikesfan" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=PurpleTide link=topic=35795.msg603667#msg603667 date=1184589271]

    Thanks Singer, you are ever vigalant in your quest to bring us news.

    You've got to think that Shiancoe with his 4.5 speed will be able to get down the middle better than Wiggin's used to.
    This should occupy a safety, which will open up a WR for single coverage, and you've got to beat single coverage.

    I know in the WCO you pass to estamblish the run, but I think we will run more trying to keep T-Jacks attempts to 30-35. per game.
    Not sure how much the Chiller will cut the playbook down because of his young QB.

    I think alot of it will be how close our D can keep us in the game.
    Hopefully we will be ahead early in the games which will result in a ratio somewere alongs the lines of 40% Pass/60% Run.
    Regardless of the situation I think we will see a consistency with respect to multiple recievers (WR, TE, RB) running routes during the initial phases of the game whatever the percentages are.



    That will then setup the run along with play action in the later rounds to keep the D off balance and eat up the clock.
    You don't run late in the game unless you have the lead (or its a close game), and there is no reason to think our passing offense is good enough to score early and establish the kind of lead which lets us run later in the game. I know the scheme calls for a good mix of passes, but that simply is not the strength of this team talent-wise.

    Run the ball down their throats. All game, every game.
    Ahhhh V, I always love your posts......

    I think you are kindof echoing what I said.
    My assumption/statement is based on the hope that our D will keep us in the game, giving us the ball back in good field position as well as hopefully gettting a few scores themselves this year.

    Additionally, your comment on the strenght of this team....
    I agree on paper we appear to be a run first team, however, I for one think that as with the LB'rs last year, our WR corp is better than some prognosticators think.

    Will it be like the days of Moss, Carter, Reed, probably not, but at least I think it will be good enough to give us a pretty balanced attack and won't be a liability like some believe allowing the Chiller to start showing some of the building blocks of that KAO.

    ;D
    Our best bet to win games is run, run, run, throw.
    My prediction is we will run two downs and throw on the third only to be stopped and punt.
    The steelers were the king of the run and they won a lot.
    they also only let rothlens-wuh? throw 24 times a game during their most successful year.
    maybe childress has that in mind.
    but we will win or lose by the oline and running game.
    i expect tavaris to be sidelined by week eight and only after there is 6 weeks of complaining from the fans.
    Two things......
    A) Run Run Pass is not the WCO.
    B)Predictable offenses are a bad thing my friend.

    Another thing that is chapping my ass a bit is that for over a year I have heard from most posters on here that they are convinced/believe that the Chiller is hard headed and sooooooooooo set in his ways that he won't change the scheme. (I'm not one of them by the way).

    Why all of a sudden does everybody believe he will give up on his WCO because he drafted a RB in the first round?
    Can you say, "Uneducated contridiction".......


    I for one, as I have stated, believe we won't be as predictable as that nor will we be as dependant on the run as most think.
    He will pare the playbook back a bit, but we will see at least a 40/60% ratio regardless of what some of you think about our QB, WR's and Coaches.

    Again, my opinion.
    ;D
    [/quote]

    The point Marrdro is that Chili won't change his ways even though its obvious that he should. Run Run Pass is not the WCO, but at the same time our offense was extremely predictable last year, which is why Chili needs a serious change in scheme for this offense to be effective. Your theories only work if the receivers pan out, and that is a big if. The safer bet, and I have said this many times before, is simply to run more. If that means straying away from the WCO, then we need to stray as much as possible.

    You are suggesting we run the same scheme as last year and let the added talent of Wade, Rice, Peterson, Jackson, and Shiancoe make for an improved offense.

    I am suggesting that the only sure bet in that bunch is Peterson. If we run the same offense as last year we will SUCK.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  2. #22
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Pass Catching Vikings

    I don't one bit about some pas/run ratio,KAO,WCO or any of that crap. What I do want to know is how is the coaching staff going to adjust their gameplan as games go by and as opposing coaches do the same to us.

    Last year we came out and scored on darn near every first possession which tells me we had the talent on the field to score touchdowns and get into field goal range.

    But then on the second series when the opposing defense made their adjustments we would not seem to counter them and the offense would stall for the rest of the game. This came to a head against the Pats and we never got on track for a whole game the rest of the year. The game against the seahawks was as close to a complete game as we got all year.

    So rather than sit and worry about whether we will hit some magical AP ratio or TJ tangent I just want to see the coaching staff prepare the players to go either way depending on what the defense gives them and score some points which ever way they come to us.

  3. #23
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Pass Catching Vikings

    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "PAvikesfan" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=35795.msg603671#msg603671 date=1184589789]
    [quote author=PurpleTide link=topic=35795.msg603667#msg603667 date=1184589271]

    Thanks Singer, you are ever vigalant in your quest to bring us news.

    You've got to think that Shiancoe with his 4.5 speed will be able to get down the middle better than Wiggin's used to.
    This should occupy a safety, which will open up a WR for single coverage, and you've got to beat single coverage.

    I know in the WCO you pass to estamblish the run, but I think we will run more trying to keep T-Jacks attempts to 30-35. per game.
    Not sure how much the Chiller will cut the playbook down because of his young QB.

    I think alot of it will be how close our D can keep us in the game.
    Hopefully we will be ahead early in the games which will result in a ratio somewere alongs the lines of 40% Pass/60% Run.
    Regardless of the situation I think we will see a consistency with respect to multiple recievers (WR, TE, RB) running routes during the initial phases of the game whatever the percentages are.



    That will then setup the run along with play action in the later rounds to keep the D off balance and eat up the clock.
    You don't run late in the game unless you have the lead (or its a close game), and there is no reason to think our passing offense is good enough to score early and establish the kind of lead which lets us run later in the game. I know the scheme calls for a good mix of passes, but that simply is not the strength of this team talent-wise.

    Run the ball down their throats. All game, every game.
    Ahhhh V, I always love your posts......

    I think you are kindof echoing what I said.
    My assumption/statement is based on the hope that our D will keep us in the game, giving us the ball back in good field position as well as hopefully gettting a few scores themselves this year.

    Additionally, your comment on the strenght of this team....
    I agree on paper we appear to be a run first team, however, I for one think that as with the LB'rs last year, our WR corp is better than some prognosticators think.

    Will it be like the days of Moss, Carter, Reed, probably not, but at least I think it will be good enough to give us a pretty balanced attack and won't be a liability like some believe allowing the Chiller to start showing some of the building blocks of that KAO.

    ;D
    Our best bet to win games is run, run, run, throw.
    My prediction is we will run two downs and throw on the third only to be stopped and punt.
    The steelers were the king of the run and they won a lot.
    they also only let rothlens-wuh? throw 24 times a game during their most successful year.
    maybe childress has that in mind.
    but we will win or lose by the oline and running game.
    i expect tavaris to be sidelined by week eight and only after there is 6 weeks of complaining from the fans.
    Two things......
    A) Run Run Pass is not the WCO.
    B)Predictable offenses are a bad thing my friend.

    Another thing that is chapping my jiggly butt a bit is that for over a year I have heard from most posters on here that they are convinced/believe that the Chiller is hard headed and sooooooooooo set in his ways that he won't change the scheme. (I'm not one of them by the way).

    Why all of a sudden does everybody believe he will give up on his WCO because he drafted a RB in the first round?
    Can you say, "Uneducated contridiction".......


    I for one, as I have stated, believe we won't be as predictable as that nor will we be as dependant on the run as most think.
    He will pare the playbook back a bit, but we will see at least a 40/60% ratio regardless of what some of you think about our QB, WR's and Coaches.

    Again, my opinion.
    ;D
    [/quote]

    The point Marrdro is that Chili won't change his ways even though its obvious that he should. Run Run Pass is not the WCO, but at the same time our offense was extremely predictable last year, which is why Chili needs a serious change in scheme for this offense to be effective. Your theories only work if the receivers pan out, and that is a big if. The safer bet, and I have said this many times before, is simply to run more. If that means straying away from the WCO, then we need to stray as much as possible.

    You are suggesting we run the same scheme as last year and let the added talent of Wade, Rice, Peterson, Jackson, and Shiancoe make for an improved offense.

    I am suggesting that the only sure bet in that bunch is Peterson. If we run the same offense as last year we will SUCK.
    [/quote]
    As always, all good points.

    I think the only thing we differ on is the perception of the talent that will be on the field this year and if they can execute the KA WCO as opposed to what happened last year.

    I think this group (and not just one guy) the organization will put on the field this year will be better (reasons already provided) than last years and they won't suck running it.

    By the way, I don't think AD is the only sure bet out of the bunch.
    I for some ungodly reason have alot of hope for him as well as our OL, TJ, Shank and B-wade.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #24
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Pass Catching Vikings

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "PAvikesfan" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=V link=topic=35795.msg603686#msg603686 date=1184592544]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=35795.msg603671#msg603671 date=1184589789]
    [quote author=PurpleTide link=topic=35795.msg603667#msg603667 date=1184589271]

    Thanks Singer, you are ever vigalant in your quest to bring us news.

    You've got to think that Shiancoe with his 4.5 speed will be able to get down the middle better than Wiggin's used to.
    This should occupy a safety, which will open up a WR for single coverage, and you've got to beat single coverage.

    I know in the WCO you pass to estamblish the run, but I think we will run more trying to keep T-Jacks attempts to 30-35. per game.
    Not sure how much the Chiller will cut the playbook down because of his young QB.

    I think alot of it will be how close our D can keep us in the game.
    Hopefully we will be ahead early in the games which will result in a ratio somewere alongs the lines of 40% Pass/60% Run.
    Regardless of the situation I think we will see a consistency with respect to multiple recievers (WR, TE, RB) running routes during the initial phases of the game whatever the percentages are.


    That will then setup the run along with play action in the later rounds to keep the D off balance and eat up the clock.
    You don't run late in the game unless you have the lead (or its a close game), and there is no reason to think our passing offense is good enough to score early and establish the kind of lead which lets us run later in the game. I know the scheme calls for a good mix of passes, but that simply is not the strength of this team talent-wise.

    Run the ball down their throats. All game, every game.
    Ahhhh V, I always love your posts......

    I think you are kindof echoing what I said.
    My assumption/statement is based on the hope that our D will keep us in the game, giving us the ball back in good field position as well as hopefully gettting a few scores themselves this year.

    Additionally, your comment on the strenght of this team....
    I agree on paper we appear to be a run first team, however, I for one think that as with the LB'rs last year, our WR corp is better than some prognosticators think.

    Will it be like the days of Moss, Carter, Reed, probably not, but at least I think it will be good enough to give us a pretty balanced attack and won't be a liability like some believe allowing the Chiller to start showing some of the building blocks of that KAO.
    ;D
    Our best bet to win games is run, run, run, throw.
    My prediction is we will run two downs and throw on the third only to be stopped and punt.
    The steelers were the king of the run and they won a lot.
    they also only let rothlens-wuh? throw 24 times a game during their most successful year.
    maybe childress has that in mind.
    but we will win or lose by the oline and running game.
    i expect tavaris to be sidelined by week eight and only after there is 6 weeks of complaining from the fans.
    Two things......
    A) Run Run Pass is not the WCO.
    B)Predictable offenses are a bad thing my friend.

    Another thing that is chapping my jiggly butt a bit is that for over a year I have heard from most posters on here that they are convinced/believe that the Chiller is hard headed and sooooooooooo set in his ways that he won't change the scheme. (I'm not one of them by the way).

    Why all of a sudden does everybody believe he will give up on his WCO because he drafted a RB in the first round?
    Can you say, "Uneducated contridiction".......


    I for one, as I have stated, believe we won't be as predictable as that nor will we be as dependant on the run as most think.
    He will pare the playbook back a bit, but we will see at least a 40/60% ratio regardless of what some of you think about our QB, WR's and Coaches.

    Again, my opinion.
    ;D
    [/quote]

    The point Marrdro is that Chili won't change his ways even though its obvious that he should. Run Run Pass is not the WCO, but at the same time our offense was extremely predictable last year, which is why Chili needs a serious change in scheme for this offense to be effective. Your theories only work if the receivers pan out, and that is a big if. The safer bet, and I have said this many times before, is simply to run more. If that means straying away from the WCO, then we need to stray as much as possible.

    You are suggesting we run the same scheme as last year and let the added talent of Wade, Rice, Peterson, Jackson, and Shiancoe make for an improved offense.

    I am suggesting that the only sure bet in that bunch is Peterson. If we run the same offense as last year we will SUCK.
    [/quote]
    As always, all good points.

    I think the only thing we differ on is the perception of the talent that will be on the field this year and if they can execute the KA WCO as opposed to what happened last year.

    I think this group (and not just one guy) the organization will put on the field this year will be better (reasons already provided) than last years and they won't suck running it.

    By the way, I don't think AD is the only sure bet out of the bunch.
    I for some ungodly reason have alot of hope for him as well as our OL, TJ, Shank and B-wade.
    [/quote]


    I don't buy into the argument that we didn't have the talent to run the KAO last year. If that were the case we would not have consistently scored on the opening drive of games. What we did not have is the coaching to adjust the formation and execution over the course of the game which is evident by the fact that after the opening drive the offense was pretty much nonexistent and uninspired.

  5. #25
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    Re: Pass Catching Vikings

    I was actually watching the NYG-Philly game from last year on NFL Replay.
    The Giants were behind, and Shockey got injured and left the game late in the fourth quarter and Shank came in as relief.
    The very next play, Shank gets called for a false start.
    Actually, hearing his name called is what made me start paying attention.

    Ater that I began watching him.
    The thing that impressed me the most was his ability to hold a block on running plays.
    They ran to the side Shank was lining up on about 3/4 of the time.
    On passing plays he was running 5 or 6 yard routes, and getting decent separation.
    About the third or fourth play in the drive, Eli Manning shoots up a horrible throw that Shank adjusts on.
    Both Shank and the defender go up, and the defender gets two hands on the ball, where Shank only gets one.
    But Shank was able to hold on to the ball (with his one hand) all the way down to the ground to win possession.
    Awesome catch!
    After that the LBs began to key in on him, which opened up more running room.

    If you look at the game on a stat sheet, you could easily overlook Shank.
    But I loved watching his play during the game.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  6. #26
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: Pass Catching Vikings

    I don't buy into the argument that we didn't have the talent to run the KAO last year. If that were the case we would not have consistently scored on the opening drive of games. What we did not have is the coaching to adjust the formation and execution over the course of the game which is evident by the fact that after the opening drive the offense was pretty much nonexistent and uninspired.
    Great points however, I gotta throw out the bullshit card again and ask, ...... do you honestly think that our coaching staff didn't try to make adjustments?
    This is the NFL and not some pony league we are talking about here.

    I am big enough and intelligent enough to agree that our coaching staff can take some of the blame and needed to work out some bugs when it came to game time decision making, however, you just can't blame the whole thing on the coaches and not look at the team as a whole.

    Was it the coach that was out there on the right side of the line letting everyone through?

    Was it the coach that continually dropped passes when they hit him in the hands?

    Was it the coach that got gunshy and checked down to the back coming out of the backfield all the time.

    Was it the coach who wouldn't step up in the pocket and throw it to a WR?

    Was it the coach that continually got flagged for pre-snap penalties?

    Ultimately the HC is to blame for everything as it is his job to make sure that the team is prepared and that there is a gameplan in place to beat the team, however at some point you need to also agree that maybe the talent wasn't there to execute the plan.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #27
    ItalianStallion's Avatar
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    Re: Pass Catching Vikings

    "singersp" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:

    Everyone is also critical because he wasn't productive in NY.
    Well maybe that is because they hardly used him.
    A person can't be productively statistically unless they are used.

    I agree with that, but based on being hardly used, what did the Vikings base their assesment on to warrant a 5 year deal worth $18.2 mil? 23 receptions in 4 years?

    :-\
    They based it on the fact that they couldn't get through an offseason without signing anyone
    :P


    I m like a Ja Rule poster, cause I'm off the wall.

  8. #28
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Pass Catching Vikings

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    I don't buy into the argument that we didn't have the talent to run the KAO last year. If that were the case we would not have consistently scored on the opening drive of games. What we did not have is the coaching to adjust the formation and execution over the course of the game which is evident by the fact that after the opening drive the offense was pretty much nonexistent and uninspired.
    Great points however, I gotta throw out the bullshit card again and ask, ...... do you honestly think that our coaching staff didn't try to make adjustments?
    This is the NFL and not some pony league we are talking about here.
    I agree that we are definetly more talented than we were last year, but last year we definelty lost to some teams that we had more talent than. The 49ers, Jets, and Packers (twice) come to mind. What happened it those games?

    Childress got outcoached. Whether he tried to make adjustments or not is moot, because nothing he did in those games was effective. Overall, Childress was horrible at mid-game adjustments.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  9. #29
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Pass Catching Vikings

    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    I don't buy into the argument that we didn't have the talent to run the KAO last year. If that were the case we would not have consistently scored on the opening drive of games. What we did not have is the coaching to adjust the formation and execution over the course of the game which is evident by the fact that after the opening drive the offense was pretty much nonexistent and uninspired.
    Great points however, I gotta throw out the kaka del rio card again and ask, ...... do you honestly think that our coaching staff didn't try to make adjustments?
    This is the NFL and not some pony league we are talking about here.
    I agree that we are definetly more talented than we were last year, but last year we definelty lost to some teams that we had more talent than. The 49ers, Jets, and Packers (twice) come to mind. What happened it those games?

    Childress got outcoached. Whether he tried to make adjustments or not is moot, because nothing he did in those games was effective. Overall, Childress was horrible at mid-game adjustments.
    I might be reaching here, so bare with me, but I want to think that the Chiller stuck to a game plan even though he didn't quite have the talent to execute it for a very simple reason.


    Why would he do that some of our not so deep thinking members will ask.

    ;D

    My feeling is that he wanted to expose the players that would be with the team for the long haul to his system (win or loose) so that they would be familiar with it in 2007.
    Throw in the fact that we weren't really out of so many games with the talent we had on the field and the so called scheme that he was running.

    Again, I might be reaching with that statement, however, it is kindof echo'd by alot of the returning players during OTA's when they say how comfortable everyone is and how familiar things are.
    Kindof along the lines of the "See the Big Picture" mentality

    Additionally, I don't think we were as good as some of us (The Chiller included) thought we were gonna be last year.

    I gotta agree with you on the 49rs and Pack (I throw the Bears in there as well) should have been wins but I don't think we were that much better than them.


    The Jets however, (10-6 PF 316 PA 295) suprised alot of people, me included.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Pass Catching Vikings

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:

    Everyone is also critical because he wasn't productive in NY.
    Well maybe that is because they hardly used him.
    A person can't be productively statistically unless they are used.

    I agree with that, but based on being hardly used, what did the Vikings base their assesment on to warrant a 5 year deal worth $18.2 mil? 23 receptions in 4 years?

    :-\
    They based it on the fact that they couldn't get through an offseason without signing anyone
    :P
    That is not a guaranteed contract.
    So, the numbers are fairly irrelevant.

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