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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Teams practice their defensive strategy all week. Most everybody knows teams prepare differently if they are going to face a rookie QB behind center than they would if theif their normal veteran QB is starting.
    So what? You haven't told me what they would have done differently without any film on him.
    So- What exactly would they do to prepare for a guy that they haven't seen play?

    Secondly- Now that he has a week under his belt, how is it going to be any easier for Musgrave to put in a game plan? Does he now lose the element of surprise now that teams had a whole week and a whole games worth of film on him?

    Next you'll be trying to tell us that if the Vikings announced on Monday that AD would be out for the upcoming game due to injury, that team would still practice the rest of the week with the box completely stacked against the run. LOL!

    No, actually I would say that with a new QB that can move a little and hit his WR's that they won't stack the box even if AP is in the game. Now, if TJ or McChunky were playing they would have stacked the box even if we brought back Darrin Nelson because the run would be the only thing we could have a remote chance of burning them with.




    Do you also believe teams don't make half time adjustments?
    Are you talking the Vikings or the league in particular? Because the answer might change depending on how you phrase it.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Teams practice their defensive strategy all week. Most everybody knows teams prepare differently if they are going to face a rookie QB behind center than they would if theif their normal veteran QB is starting.

    Next you'll be trying to tell us that if the Vikings announced on Monday that AD would be out for the upcoming game due to injury, that team would still practice the rest of the week with the box completely stacked against the run. LOL!




    Do you also believe teams don't make half time adjustments?
    I thought teams released their injury reports on Wednesdays and Fridays........why would the Vikings do one Monday now that would not have me laughing

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    So what? You haven't told me what they would have done differently without any film on him.
    So- What exactly would they do to prepare for a guy that they haven't seen play?
    Are you trying to say the Packers never looked once at any film on Ponder to see what his tendencies are? Does he fluster easily? Does he tend to take off running too quickly? Can he throw accurately? Where does he tend to throw. Does he stay in the pocket? Etc....

    To say there's no film on him is ridiculous.

    When a team inserts a rookie QB for the first time, defenses are going to go after the QB & try to get him rattled into making mistakes or throw defensive looks at him that he may not recognize, there by adding confusion. It doesn't matter who that rookie QB happens to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Secondly- Now that he has a week under his belt, how is it going to be any easier for Musgrave to put in a game plan? Does he now lose the element of surprise now that teams had a whole week and a whole games worth of film on him?
    It's not going to be any easier. New week, new opponent. He has to put in a game plan that he feels will work against the Panthers. He'll be able to look at what worked & didn't work against GB as a starting point, but that doesn't mean a play that didn't work against GB, won't work against Carolina.

    In fact, with Ponder throwing better than McNabb, they are looking at trying to throw the ball to AD more.[/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    No, actually I would say that with a new QB that can move a little and hit his WR's that they won't stack the box even if AP is in the game. Now, if TJ or McChunky were playing they would have stacked the box even if we brought back Darrin Nelson because the run would be the only thing we could have a remote chance of burning them with.
    Wait a minute! You just said "with a new QB that can move a little and hit his WR's that they won't stack the box even if AP is in the game."

    That contradicts what you've been saying & backs up my point that defenses will prepare differently & have a different game plan against Ponder than they did McChunky.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Are you talking the Vikings or the league in particular? Because the answer might change depending on how you phrase it.
    In general

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikinggreg View Post
    I thought teams released their injury reports on Wednesdays and Fridays........why would the Vikings do one Monday now that would not have me laughing
    Officially they release their reports on those days, but that doesn't mean it's not known publicly prior to that.

    I.E. If there's an injury to a player on Sunday & it's announced on Monday that the player will miss 3-4 weeks because of it, the public knows about it prior to Wednesday.

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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    Are you trying to say the Packers never looked once at any film on Ponder to see what his tendencies are? Does he fluster easily? Does he tend to take off running too quickly? Can he throw accurately? Where does he tend to throw. Does he stay in the pocket? Etc....

    To say there's no film on him is ridiculous.
    What I am saying- And I will type REAL SLOW for you- Is that there isn't enough film on him playing to be able to give them some unique advantage that they wouldn't have had if the Vikings waited an additional day or 2 to announce him starting. It really isn't that difficult of a concept if you think it through.


    When a team inserts a rookie QB for the first time, defenses are going to go after the QB & try to get him rattled into making mistakes or throw defensive looks at him that he may not recognize, there by adding confusion. It doesn't matter who that rookie QB happens to be.
    That isn't the point. You are blowing out of proportion the idea that an extra day or 2 was going to put the Vikings at a disadvantage in terms of announcing the starting QB. I disagree.



    It's not going to be any easier. New week, new opponent. He has to put in a game plan that he feels will work against the Panthers. He'll be able to look at what worked & didn't work against GB as a starting point, but that doesn't mean a play that didn't work against GB, won't work against Carolina.
    And that statement establishes my point. The Packers may have known the starting QB a day or 2 earlier but that doesn't mean what they game planned for was going to work and so the advantage they were given by the extra day or 2 was not the mountain you made it but rather a mole hill.



    In fact, with Ponder throwing better than McNabb, they are looking at trying to throw the ball to AD more.
    Did the Packers game plan for that scenario? They must have because they had a little extra time to work on it.


    Wait a minute! You just said "with a new QB that can move a little and hit his WR's that they won't stack the box even if AP is in the game."

    That contradicts what you've been saying & backs up my point that defenses will prepare differently & have a different game plan against Ponder than they did McChunky.
    It does? So the Packers actually knew Ponder was going to look better than McChunky when the rest of the world had no idea? and they knew he would be more efficient on third downs?

    If that is the case, as you certainly must be contending, then they sure did a shitty job of stopping him from converting them. So then I have to ask- If they knew he was going to pass better, convert more 3rd downs and pass down the field more- Why didn't their game plan focus on stopping it?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    What I am saying- And I will type REAL SLOW for you- Is that there isn't enough film on him playing to be able to give them some unique advantage that they wouldn't have had if the Vikings waited an additional day or 2 to announce him starting. It really isn't that difficult of a concept if you think it through.
    You'd better go back & read what you said. Read really slow so you comprehend it. You claimed there wasn't "ANY" film on Ponder & I said there was.

    Again, for the umpteenth time, film or no film, defenses will try to go after, fluster & confuse a rookie QB, more than they do a veteran. What part of that don't you understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    That isn't the point. You are blowing out of proportion the idea that an extra day or 2 was going to put the Vikings at a disadvantage in terms of announcing the starting QB. I disagree.
    Um, that isn't the point either. 2 extra days isn't going to put the Vikings at a disadvantage. I never said it will. You pulled that "2 days" out of your ass.

    I said 6 days, count them six. I said not to announce a QB change & march Ponder out there to start on Sunday. That would give the Packers 0 (zero) days to game plan against a rookie QB vs. McNabb.

    And that statement establishes my point. The Packers may have known the starting QB a day or 2 earlier but that doesn't mean what they game planned for was going to work and so the advantage they were given by the extra day or 2 was not the mountain you made it but rather a mole hill.
    There's that "extra day or 2" you invented again. Do you know the difference between 2 & 6? Again, I said 6. Where did you come up with this 2 shit? Quote please!

    If they don't announce Ponder is starting until Sunday, they game plan against McNabb starting & not Ponder.

    Announcing it on Monday gives GB 6 days before the game to make their game plan against a rookie QB instead of a veteran McNabb. Does it mean their game plan will work? No, it's no guarantee, but that isn't the point. The point as originally stated before you twisted it, is it gave them 6 days to prepare differently than they would have if they knew McNabb was starting.

    Knowing which QB your going to face 6 days in advance, rather than finding out on game day is a lot bigger advantage than the mole-hill you are trying to minimize it to be.

    Did the Packers game plan for that scenario? They must have because they had a little extra time to work on it.
    Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Ask GB.

    It does? So the Packers actually knew Ponder was going to look better than McChunky when the rest of the world had no idea? and they knew he would be more efficient on third downs?

    If that is the case, as you certainly must be contending, then they sure did a shitty job of stopping him from converting them. So then I have to ask- If they knew he was going to pass better, convert more 3rd downs and pass down the field more- Why didn't their game plan focus on stopping it?
    Again, they were preparing against a rookie QB, not a veteran. The game is much faster for a rookie in his first game & he'll be easier to rattle than a veteran QB who has been playing for 10+years.

    Last I checked, Ponder was 13-32 (40%). If you want to claim that's a result of piss-poor defensive play & it allowed Ponder to have a great 40% completion percentage, your certainly entitled to that opinion. I won't agree with it.

    What makes you think their game plan didn't focus on stopping Ponder from completing passes? Was it the 13 of 32 that lead you to believe it? In the game I watched, Ponder was running around for his life trying to avoid sacks & make a play.

    Unless I'm mistaken, he was running around because they brought pressure & not because Ponder simply felt like exercising his legs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    You'd better go back & read what you said. Read really slow so you comprehend it. You claimed there wasn't "ANY" film on Ponder & I said there was.
    Leave it to you to believe that film from his time at FSU or in the pre season would give the Packers an edge on how to stop him. Pretty much sums up your whole argument...

    Again, for the umpteenth time, film or no film, defenses will try to go after, fluster & confuse a rookie QB, more than they do a veteran. What part of that don't you understand?
    That isn't the point. The point is whether or no making the announcement on Tuesday instead of Wednesday when Frasier said he would made any difference.


    Um, that isn't the point either. 2 extra days isn't going to put the Vikings at a disadvantage. I never said it will. You pulled that "2 days" out of your ass.

    I said 6 days, count them six. I said not to announce a QB change & march Ponder out there to start on Sunday. That would give the Packers 0 (zero) days to game plan against a rookie QB vs. McNabb.


    There's that "extra day or 2" you invented again. Do you know the difference between 2 & 6? Again, I said 6. Where did you come up with this 2 shit? Quote please!

    If they don't announce Ponder is starting until Sunday, they game plan against McNabb starting & not Ponder



    Announcing it on Monday gives GB 6 days before the game to make their game plan against a rookie QB instead of a veteran McNabb. Does it mean their game plan will work? No, it's no guarantee, but that isn't the point. The point as originally stated before you twisted it, is it gave them 6 days to prepare differently than they would have if they knew McNabb was starting.

    Knowing which QB your going to face 6 days in advance, rather than finding out on game day is a lot bigger advantage than the mole-hill you are trying to minimize it to be.
    That whole "Run him out there right at game time and surprise the packers because they thought McChunky was starting" thing is laughable at best. First that would mean that they would have to secretly bench McNabb, demote him, and elevate Ponder all without nothing leaking out in the Twitter age. That would mean they would have to spend all week defending McChunky to the media and they would have had to close off the practices to the media and to everyone except the core of the team.

    Yeah, that one was going to work.





    Again, they were preparing against a rookie QB, not a veteran. The game is much faster for a rookie in his first game & he'll be easier to rattle than a veteran QB who has been playing for 10+years.
    Yeah, that was abundantly clear when watching the game. Heck, Ponder looked like he was in shambles and much more rattled and confused than McChunky looked in the previous 6 games. Good point.



    Last I checked, Ponder was 13-32 (40%). If you want to claim that's a result of piss-poor defensive play & it allowed Ponder to have a great 40% completion percentage, your certainly entitled to that opinion. I won't agree with it.

    What makes you think their game plan didn't focus on stopping Ponder from completing passes? Was it the 13 of 32 that lead you to believe it? In the game I watched, Ponder was running around for his life trying to avoid sacks & make a play.
    I would tend to believe that his completion % was a result of a terrible OL and a marginal WR group and less about whether the defense had 1,3 or 6 days to prepare for him.
    That being said, I would enjoy hearing from you specifically what things the Packers did differently for Ponder than they would have done for McNabb and how they used the film from his time at FSU and the preseason to put that plan together. Since you have such a great handle on the situation I am not going to even ask for links from extrenal sources. I am going to ask YOU specifically to tell me what you saw that the Packers did that they wouldn't have done had they spent all week preparing for McChunky. Be as specific and detailed as you need to be to support your claim.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Leave it to you to believe that film from his time at FSU or in the pre season would give the Packers an edge on how to stop him. Pretty much sums up your whole argument...
    LMFAO! Leave it to you to think a QB changes the way he plays the moment preseason ends & the regular season begins. If you can't comprehend that film from preseason will show a QB's tendencies, then it's moot to try & show you otherwise.

    Yep, according to you, everything you saw Ponder do in his first start you never saw him do before in your life. He completely changed the way he played. Everything you saw him do before as a Viking was a charade. LOL!


    That isn't the point. The point is whether or no making the announcement on Tuesday instead of Wednesday when Frasier said he would made any difference.
    No, the point is whether or not making the announcement on Tuesday instead of Sunday would made any difference to the way GB would prepare for the game.

    Get it straight SUNDAY, not Tuesday, like you said before, not Wednesday like you are saying now, but a game time change on SUNDAY.

    Say it with me...S-U-N-D-A-Y. Can you glean it now?


    That whole "Run him out there right at game time and surprise the packers because they thought McChunky was starting" thing is laughable at best. First that would mean that they would have to secretly bench McNabb, demote him, and elevate Ponder all without nothing leaking out in the Twitter age. That would mean they would have to spend all week defending McChunky to the media and they would have had to close off the practices to the media and to everyone except the core of the team.

    Yeah, that one was going to work.
    Since when are practices during the week open to the media? If a player tweeted it & blew the plan, pretty sure everyone would know which player did it.

    It's not as difficult to not tweet it as you make it sound. Do you see players tweeting game plans during the week? I don't think so.


    Yeah, that was abundantly clear when watching the game. Heck, Ponder looked like he was in shambles and much more rattled and confused than McChunky looked in the previous 6 games. Good point.
    Ponder was running for his life on several plays. If he wasn't rattled that doesn't mean they didn't try.

    I guess you are a firm believer that if a QB wasn't sacked, he was never blitzed.

    In the game I watched Ponder was 13-32. What game did you watch where GB didn't disrupt his game? What was his completion percentage in the game you watched?


    I would tend to believe that his completion % was a result of a terrible OL and a marginal WR group and less about whether the defense had 1,3 or 6 days to prepare for him.
    That being said, I would enjoy hearing from you specifically what things the Packers did differently for Ponder than they would have done for McNabb and how they used the film from his time at FSU and the preseason to put that plan together. Since you have such a great handle on the situation I am not going to even ask for links from extrenal sources. I am going to ask YOU specifically to tell me what you saw that the Packers did that they wouldn't have done had they spent all week preparing for McChunky. Be as specific and detailed as you need to be to support your claim.
    You mean that same crop of marginal receivers & OL he had against the Panthers when he completed 65% of his passes instead of 40%?

    Sorry, I don't know what the Packers defensive strategy was going to be, so I don't know everything they changed, because it wasn't made public. But feel free to check Twitter & let me know what it was because certainly the GB's players must have leaked it via Twitter sometime during the week before the game.

    IMO they came after him more than they would have McNabb & knew with Ponder in there instead of McNabb, they weren't going to see Ponder skipping balls off the turf. They also knew he could make plays on his feet.

    If the two QB's were a lot alike, the strategy wouldn't have changed much. Being that the two play differently & what you can expect out of each is different, teams are going to prepare against them differently.

    Bottom line is GB had 6 days preparation knowing they would face Ponder instead of McNabb. If you can't grasp by now that defenses prepare differently against a rookie QB vs one that's been in the league 10+ years, there's no point trying.

    Next you'll be trying to convince people that teams would prepare the same against Vick as they would against Kafka.

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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by singersp View Post
    LMFAO! Leave it to you to think a QB changes the way he plays the moment preseason ends & the regular season begins. If you can't comprehend that film from preseason will show a QB's tendencies, then it's moot to try & show you otherwise.
    So let me get this straight- You are really going to put your eggs into the basket that the Packers actually looked at film from when he played college ball in order to game plan against him? That is really the single most preposterous statement I have seen you make. Congrats.


    Yep, according to you, everything you saw Ponder do in his first start you never saw him do before in your life. He completely changed the way he played. Everything you saw him do before as a Viking was a charade. LOL!
    Whoops, the most preposterous statement only lasted a paragraph. Now this one takes the lead.

    LMAO. I bet the even got some pirated vidoe of him walking around in his huggies as a baby just in case he shit his pants from fear just to document how he runs with a full load in his shorts.



    No, the point is whether or not making the announcement on Tuesday instead of Sunday would made any difference to the way GB would prepare for the game.

    Get it straight SUNDAY, not Tuesday, like you said before, not Wednesday like you are saying now, but a game time change on SUNDAY.

    Say it with me...S-U-N-D-A-Y. Can you glean it now?
    Come on Singer. You get out there once in a while but you really lost your mind on this one. There is no way your scenario was EVER going to happen. Never.

    You can sit there and fantasize all day long about shocking the world when they put in a new starter but the truth is the Vikings would have had to expend more energy trying to keep that under wraps than they would have gained by the surprise. We live in the digital age where everything is revealed in real time on too many platforms and in the end it would have gained us nothing.

    In the end Frazier stated very clearly on Monday that he was going to announce a starter on Wednesday. He actually did it on Tuesday which is one day early.

    If he had not made an announcement then the team would have been subjected to the QB controversy question by every reporter every passing second until the game. By making the announcement the coach took all of that away and allowed the team to focus on beating the packers and on building chemistry with the new QB. IMHO that is a far better approach than trying some lame scheme of hide- the-QB all week.




    Since when are practices during the week open to the media? If a player tweeted it & blew the plan, pretty sure everyone would know which player did it.

    It's not as difficult to not tweet it as you make it sound. Do you see players tweeting game plans during the week? I don't think so.
    If you don't see the leap between what you are proposing and the thought that a player would randomly tweet a game plan then this topic is dead.


    Ponder was running for his life on several plays. If he wasn't rattled that doesn't mean they didn't try.

    I guess you are a firm believer that if a QB wasn't sacked, he was never blitzed.

    In the game I watched Ponder was 13-32. What game did you watch where GB didn't disrupt his game? What was his completion percentage in the game you watched?
    LMAO. You are getting as delusional as I have ever seen you on this board. This will be my last post because I think you just might be going over the edge of sanity.

    Did they try to pressure Ponder? Duh.
    Were they helped by knowing on Tuesday instead of Wednesday like Frazier clearly stated? Not really IMHO.
    Was there a snowballs chance in hell that they would try some hair brained scheme of saying all week that McChunky would start only to send Ponder out in some dramatic Trojan Horse scene? Not hardly. That is the type of crap Childress would have maybe tried like when he sent the 3 amigos to Kiln to bring back a QB and we all know how well that one worked out.

    Leslie is a coach who is even tempered and wants everything to be calm and collected and what you proposed is nothing like that.




    You mean that same crop of marginal receivers & OL he had against the Panthers when he completed 65% of his passes instead of 40%?

    Sorry, I don't know what the Packers defensive strategy was going to be, so I don't know everything they changed, because it wasn't made public. But feel free to check Twitter & let me know what it was because certainly the GB's players must have leaked it via Twitter sometime during the week before the game.
    Maybe you can just watch some FSU tape and draw a conclusion from that. Then get back to me.

    IMO they came after him more than they would have McNabb & knew with Ponder in there instead of McNabb, they weren't going to see Ponder skipping balls off the turf. They also knew he could make plays on his feet.
    Well, then we should have let them know sooner because that just left them more vulnerable.


    If the two QB's were a lot alike, the strategy wouldn't have changed much. Being that the two play differently & what you can expect out of each is different, teams are going to prepare against them differently.
    And anyone watching a tape of Ponder playing in 6th grade could clearly see that he was nothing like McNabb.




    Bottom line is GB had 6 days preparation knowing they would face Ponder instead of McNabb. If you can't grasp by now that defenses prepare differently against a rookie QB vs one that's been in the league 10+ years, there's no point trying.
    Yeah, I bet they went back all the way to his pre school film to see whether he went to the slide or the monkey bars and put that in the game plan.

    Next you'll be trying to convince people that teams would prepare the same against Vick as they would against Kafka.
    In your world they would start Kafka on Sunday without announcing it because they felt they could take the opponent by surprise. Run that by Andy and let me know if he buys into it. You just might start a trend.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    So let me get this straight- You are really going to put your eggs into the basket that the Packers actually looked at film from when he played college ball in order to game plan against him? That is really the single most preposterous statement I have seen you make. Congrats.

    Whoops, the most preposterous statement only lasted a paragraph. Now this one takes the lead.

    LMAO. I bet the even got some pirated vidoe of him walking around in his huggies as a baby just in case he shit his pants from fear just to document how he runs with a full load in his shorts.

    Come on Singer. You get out there once in a while but you really lost your mind on this one. There is no way your scenario was EVER going to happen. Never.

    You can sit there and fantasize all day long about shocking the world when they put in a new starter but the truth is the Vikings would have had to expend more energy trying to keep that under wraps than they would have gained by the surprise. We live in the digital age where everything is revealed in real time on too many platforms and in the end it would have gained us nothing.

    In the end Frazier stated very clearly on Monday that he was going to announce a starter on Wednesday. He actually did it on Tuesday which is one day early.

    If he had not made an announcement then the team would have been subjected to the QB controversy question by every reporter every passing second until the game. By making the announcement the coach took all of that away and allowed the team to focus on beating the packers and on building chemistry with the new QB. IMHO that is a far better approach than trying some lame scheme of hide- the-QB all week.

    If you don't see the leap between what you are proposing and the thought that a player would randomly tweet a game plan then this topic is dead.

    LMAO. You are getting as delusional as I have ever seen you on this board. This will be my last post because I think you just might be going over the edge of sanity.

    Did they try to pressure Ponder? Duh.
    Were they helped by knowing on Tuesday instead of Wednesday like Frazier clearly stated? Not really IMHO.

    Was there a snowballs chance in hell that they would try some hair brained scheme of saying all week that McChunky would start only to send Ponder out in some dramatic Trojan Horse scene? Not hardly. That is the type of crap Childress would have maybe tried like when he sent the 3 amigos to Kiln to bring back a QB and we all know how well that one worked out.

    Leslie is a coach who is even tempered and wants everything to be calm and collected and what you proposed is nothing like that.

    Maybe you can just watch some FSU tape and draw a conclusion from that. Then get back to me.

    Well, then we should have let them know sooner because that just left them more vulnerable.

    And anyone watching a tape of Ponder playing in 6th grade could clearly see that he was nothing like McNabb.

    Yeah, I bet they went back all the way to his pre school film to see whether he went to the slide or the monkey bars and put that in the game plan.

    In your world they would start Kafka on Sunday without announcing it because they felt they could take the opponent by surprise. Run that by Andy and let me know if he buys into it. You just might start a trend.
    You keep twisting shit.

    So you're saying Ponder didn't play at all for the Vikings prior to his start? There was not any film of him as a Viking at all prior to his start.

    Then you say GB did absolutely nothing different to prepare for him & watched zero film of him of QB as a Viking. You are the one that's delusional.

    Then you make claims that players are out there tweeting game plans during the week. Do you have any proof of that from any player in the league? Anyone at all? Bueller? Bueller. That's what I thought.

    And still after repeated attempts of clearly telling you Frazier should have not said anything until Sunday, you still confuse that with Wednesday & claim there was only 1 day difference.

    Like I said before, if you feel that GB knowing 6 days ahead of time that a rookie QB was going to start, rather than at game time, gave them absolutely no advantage in preparation for the upcoming game that's your opinion. LOL!

    You're probably right, the announcement didn't change a thing & the Packers prepared as if they were playing McNabb & spent time during the week watching tape of McNabb throwing passes in the dirt as preparation. Couple that with your belief they are checking tweets from our players and getting all our game plans that our players are leaking and it's no wonder they won. *rolls eyes*

    BTW, why did you waste your time spending hours "gleaning" thru highlights of Ponder prior to the draft if you really felt everything you saw, every characteristic, every tendency, every physical attribute & every skill was going to change?
    Last edited by singersp; 11-02-2011 at 08:08 AM.

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