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  1. #41
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Anderson Cut

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    I just can't wait until mid season when all of the cook jock sniffers disappear as he continues to do what he has always done. Suck at pass protection.

    To those who believe he will improve there is one thing that he cannot improve and that is his genetics. The reason he gets blown up in pass protection is because his foot action is too slow and it keeps him from getting in a favorable position against the pass rushers. This is not something that is going to change.
    Did you read the stats that Mars provided?
    :

    http://www.vikingsvalhalla.com/index...d=25&Itemid=48

    How many times did he get blown up last year?
    How was that stat rated against the rest of the league?
    How can you not say that a young player won't get any better?

    Seems to me that if you were to really do some digging you would see that both Big Mac and Cook struggled with the faster edge rushers, but that tracks with the norm across the league but being ranked 15th (Football Outsiders) in the league isn't like either of them was getting blown up my friend.

    Our problem was the whole OL, just not our T's.

    I am sure I will still be around when the season gets going.
    Feel free to come back and revisit this issue if you like, however, I
    would recommend you bring something other than your opinion (or a couple of youtube vids) if you want to change my mind cause the stats don't lie my friend. ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  2. #42
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Anderson Cut

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    I just can't wait until mid season when all of the cook jock sniffers disappear as he continues to do what he has always done. Suck at pass protection.

    To those who believe he will improve there is one thing that he cannot improve and that is his genetics. The reason he gets blown up in pass protection is because his foot action is too slow and it keeps him from getting in a favorable position against the pass rushers. This is not something that is going to change.
    Did you read the stats that Mars provided?
    :

    http://www.vikingsvalhalla.com/index...d=25&Itemid=48

    How many times did he get blown up last year?
    How was that stat rated against the rest of the league?
    How can you not say that a young player won't get any better?

    Seems to me that if you were to really do some digging you would see that both Big Mac and Cook struggled with the faster edge rushers, but that tracks with the norm across the league but being ranked 15th (Football Outsiders) in the league isn't like either of them was getting blown up my friend.

    Our problem was the whole OL, just not our T's.

    I am sure I will still be around when the season gets going.
    Feel free to come back and revisit this issue if you like, however, I
    would recommend you bring something other than your opinion (or a couple of youtube vids) if you want to change my mind cause the stats don't lie my friend. ;D
    He wasn't 15th in the league my friend. When it came to be blown up & giving up sacks, he was 16th out of the 22 full start RT's. 15 full start RT's better than him, only 6 worse.

    McKinnie ranked 12th of the 17 full start LT's. 11 full start LT's better than him, only 5 worse.

    Both gave up 7 sacks.

    Now let's look at the run production;

    Cook ranked 21st (of the 32 teams left tackle position) with a 4.09 yard blocking average of Adjusted Line Yards in each direction.

    McKinnie ranked 19th (of the 32 teams left tackle position) with a 4.21 yard blocking average of Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed.

    To me it doesn't look good for either of them finishing that low considering the fact that the Vikings led the league in total rushing yards & rushing yards per game.

    It tells me that 38 T's had better blocking averages than these two & they did it with their teams rushing for a hell of lot less yards.

    While the stats may show Cook is progressing better than McKinnie, it just means he's slightly better than one of the leagues less than average tackles.




    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  3. #43
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Anderson Cut

    Did you read the stats that Mars provided?

    Roll Eyes
    Yes I did. Did you understand them? :

    How many times did he get blown up last year?
    [size=10pt][glow=red,2,300]Ranked 27th (of 39) with 7 sacks allowed for 37 yards
    Ranked 16th of the 22 full season right tackles with 7 sacks for 37 yards
    [/glow][/size]

    How was that stat rated against the rest of the league?
    [size=10pt][glow=red,2,300]I repeat
    Ranked 27th (of 39) with 7 sacks allowed for 37 yards
    Ranked 16th of the 22 full season right tackles with 7 sacks for 37 yards
    [/glow][/size]

    How can you not say that a young player won't get any better?

    If you would have finished reading my post you would have found the reason . I will requote it:

    because his foot action is too slow and it keeps him from getting in a favorable position against the pass rushers. This is not something that is going to change.
    Unless the staff finds a way to alter his genetics I don't see him getting appreciably faster. And since that is his issue in pass protection, how do you propose that it is going to happen that he will get better? You can't study speed. :

  4. #44
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Anderson Cut

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    I just can't wait until mid season when all of the cook jock sniffers disappear as he continues to do what he has always done. Suck at pass protection.

    To those who believe he will improve there is one thing that he cannot improve and that is his genetics. The reason he gets blown up in pass protection is because his foot action is too slow and it keeps him from getting in a favorable position against the pass rushers. This is not something that is going to change.
    Did you read the stats that Mars provided?

    :

    http://www.vikingsvalhalla.com/index...d=25&Itemid=48

    How many times did he get blown up last year?
    How was that stat rated against the rest of the league?
    How can you not say that a young player won't get any better?

    Seems to me that if you were to really do some digging you would see that both Big Mac and Cook struggled with the faster edge rushers, but that tracks with the norm across the league but being ranked 15th (Football Outsiders) in the league isn't like either of them was getting blown up my friend.

    Our problem was the whole OL, just not our T's.

    I am sure I will still be around when the season gets going.
    Feel free to come back and revisit this issue if you like, however, I
    would recommend you bring something other than your opinion (or a couple of youtube vids) if you want to change my mind cause the stats don't lie my friend. ;D
    Quick question:

    What is it about that article that gives you the warm fuzzy on Cook?

    He is below average in pass protection? ( And by the way, note the part in the article and the formations that they started using after the first few weeks of the season that had at least a TE and also many times a FB in there giving him help in pass protection)
    Did that guy provide a stat for how well he would have done if he had to go Mano-E-Mano against his responsibility like Mac did?

    The fact that we had more production running behind the guards that the tackles?

    As to his run blocking:

    Ranked 21st (of the 32 teams left tackle position) with a 4.09 yard blocking average of Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play, per Football Outsiders.

    I guess that there were 9 teams that were worse, so that is good.

    They recorded that 8% of plays were ran behind him and this gave Cook a 16.75 rating of 32 starting right tackles (15.5 being the middle of a bell curve type graph), almost dead average.
    Hey, almost dead average. That is where I always wish my team to be. Almost dead average.




  5. #45
    Garland Greene's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Anderson Cut

    Here is the problem I have. How many times last year did we hear that one of the "excuses" for TJack was Ryan Cook missing the block. I remember several people here jumping all over people here after the Denver Game when TJack fumbled saying RyanCook missed the block and that was why TJack got hit and fumbled. This was one of several times Ryan Cooks name was mentioned. as a "TJack Excuse" This is kind of the way of The Chilly Sucks and has no idea what he is doing, but then Why would he start TJack if he has no idea what he is doing?
    TJack makes a mistake but everyone is quick to blame hm for the problem, now people are defending Cook? huh? I guess I ma missing the contradiction. IF People want TJack to succeed, then why not give hi the best opportunity to do so?
    Even if Anderson and Cook are equal stat wise would you rather have a Veteran
    pro-Bowler on the OL that can help him develop or a
    second year player still learning his position? Everyone knows I have been, and still am critical of TJack, but at the same time I think that he should be given every opportunity to succeed and if he can't( and won't ) It should beall on him, and not because he did not have the tools to do so.

  6. #46
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Anderson Cut

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol.php

    Here is a good graph that shows where our line ranks against the league and how well each part of the line does against the rest of the league.

    You will note that they scored our line 15th out of 32 teams. You will also note that our interior line( Hutch, Birk and Herrera combined to rank in the 9th position while Mac and Cook ranked 19th and 21st respectively. And remember, this is just ranking how we did in the run game, not the passing game.I the passing game they rated the line 28th out of 32 teams.



    The second table lists each team's Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play, along with rank among the 32 teams. Only five directions are listed because research so far shows no statistically significant difference between how well a team performs on runs listed middle, left guard, and right guard. It's early in the season, so take these numbers with a grain of salt.

    LEFT END LEFT TACKLE MID/GUARD RIGHT TACKLE RIGHT END

    TEAM ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank
    1 NE 4.48 11 4.99 5 4.75 2 4.65 7 4.39 10
    2 NYG 4.85 7 4.37 14 4.70 3 4.46 12 4.87 3
    3 CLE 5.97 1 5.14 3 4.35 8 4.73 3 5.07 2
    4 PHI 5.30 2 6.00 1 4.20 14 4.58 10 3.66 24
    5 IND 3.70 24 5.85 2 4.63 5 4.18 18 4.51 8
    6 TB 4.07 16 4.41 12 4.63 4 4.65 8 4.05 17
    7 NO 4.05 17 3.47 30 4.98 1 3.98 23 3.77 21
    8 ARI 3.80 22 4.40 13 4.29 10 4.72 4 4.27 13
    9 TEN 3.88 20 4.92 6 4.44 7 3.73 27 3.84 20
    10 HOU 4.92 4 4.35 15 4.21 13 4.67 5 4.10 15
    11 SF 3.29 26 4.34 16 4.27 11 4.60 9 4.09 16
    12 CIN 4.09 15 4.20 20 4.60 6 3.24 31 4.82 4
    13 DEN 4.88 5 4.78 8 3.86 25 3.81 26 4.72 6
    14 DAL 2.70 31 4.61 9 3.79 27 4.95 2 5.15 1
    15 MIN 4.68 10 4.21 19 4.32 9 4.09 21 3.40 28
    16 OAK 3.71 23 4.53 11 4.02 20 4.44 13 4.18 14

    LEFT END LEFT TACKLE MID/GUARD RIGHT TACKLE RIGHT END

    TEAM ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank ALY Rank
    17 WAS 4.12 14 4.83 7 4.11 16 4.11 20 3.76 22
    18 JAC 4.85 6 3.73 27 4.13 15 5.06 1 3.26 31
    19 PIT 4.75 9 4.55 10 3.73 28 4.54 11 4.34 12
    20 CAR 5.24 3 3.78 26 3.86 23 4.16 19 4.72 5
    21 NYJ 3.48 25 3.30 31 4.22 12 4.38 15 4.05 18
    22 MIA 3.86 21 5.05 4 3.86 24 3.84 24 4.63 7
    23 DET 4.24 13 4.31 17 3.79 26 4.02 22 3.86 19
    24 SD 4.36 12 3.67 28 3.97 22 3.60 29 4.39 11
    25 BUF 2.80 29 3.90 23 4.02 19 4.65 6 3.48 26
    26 GB 3.98 18 3.98 22 4.10 17 4.23 17 3.45 27
    27 BAL 4.81 8 4.13 21 3.69 31 4.33 16 2.89 32
    28 STL 2.75 30 3.22 32 4.08 18 3.68 28 3.59 25
    29 SEA 3.95 19 3.86 24 3.70 30 3.83 25 3.32 30
    30 CHI 2.83 28 3.61 29 3.70 29 4.43 14 3.74 23
    31 KC 2.32 32 4.30 18 4.01 21 3.42 30 3.40 29
    32 ATL 3.25 27 3.79 25 3.40 32 3.20 32 4.48 9
    x NFL 4.06 x 4.35 x 4.15 x 4.23 x 4.05 x

  7. #47
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Anderson Cut

    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    I just can't wait until mid season when all of the cook jock sniffers disappear as he continues to do what he has always done. Suck at pass protection.

    To those who believe he will improve there is one thing that he cannot improve and that is his genetics. The reason he gets blown up in pass protection is because his foot action is too slow and it keeps him from getting in a favorable position against the pass rushers. This is not something that is going to change.
    Did you read the stats that Mars provided?
    :

    http://www.vikingsvalhalla.com/index...d=25&Itemid=48

    How many times did he get blown up last year?
    How was that stat rated against the rest of the league?
    How can you not say that a young player won't get any better?

    Seems to me that if you were to really do some digging you would see that both Big Mac and Cook struggled with the faster edge rushers, but that tracks with the norm across the league but being ranked 15th (Football Outsiders) in the league isn't like either of them was getting blown up my friend.

    Our problem was the whole OL, just not our T's.

    I am sure I will still be around when the season gets going.
    Feel free to come back and revisit this issue if you like, however, I
    would recommend you bring something other than your opinion (or a couple of youtube vids) if you want to change my mind cause the stats don't lie my friend. ;D
    Quick question:

    What is it about that article that gives you the warm fuzzy on Cook?

    He is below average in pass protection? ( And by the way, note the part in the article and the formations that they started using after the first few weeks of the season that had at least a TE and also many times a FB in there giving him help in pass protection)
    Did that guy provide a stat for how well he would have done if he had to go Mano-E-Mano against his responsibility like Mac did?

    The fact that we had more production running behind the guards that the tackles?

    As to his run blocking:

    Ranked 21st (of the 32 teams left tackle position) with a 4.09 yard blocking average of Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play, per Football Outsiders.

    I guess that there were 9 teams that were worse, so that is good.

    They recorded that 8% of plays were ran behind him and this gave Cook a 16.75 rating of 32 starting right tackles (15.5 being the middle of a bell curve type graph), almost dead average.
    Hey, almost dead average. That is where I always wish my team to be. Almost dead average.
    Meh I disagree with that. I'd say below average. The Vikings rushed for 2,634 last year, tops in the league. Their average of Adjusted Line Yards in each direction should be much higher than a team that rushed for only 1,797 (which is middle of the road)

    13% of the runs were behind McKinnie, 8% behind Cook.

    That means that 79% of all run plays were behind someone else. There's a reason for that.

    I also don't agree with this;

    Total
    Rush Yds Avg
    494 2634 5.3
    Left (tackle, tight end)
    112 554 4.9
    Middle (guard, center, guard)
    163 843 5.2
    Right (tackle, tight end)
    71 520 7.3

    Those numbers only add up to 1,917 YDS, not 2,634 YDS.

    What/who accounts for the other 717 YDS?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #48
    jessejames09's Avatar
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    Re: Willie Anderson Cut

    "singersp" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "UffDaVikes" wrote:
    I just can't wait until mid season when all of the cook jock sniffers disappear as he continues to do what he has always done. Suck at pass protection.

    To those who believe he will improve there is one thing that he cannot improve and that is his genetics. The reason he gets blown up in pass protection is because his foot action is too slow and it keeps him from getting in a favorable position against the pass rushers. This is not something that is going to change.
    Did you read the stats that Mars provided?

    :

    http://www.vikingsvalhalla.com/index...d=25&Itemid=48

    How many times did he get blown up last year?
    How was that stat rated against the rest of the league?
    How can you not say that a young player won't get any better?

    Seems to me that if you were to really do some digging you would see that both Big Mac and Cook struggled with the faster edge rushers, but that tracks with the norm across the league but being ranked 15th (Football Outsiders) in the league isn't like either of them was getting blown up my friend.

    Our problem was the whole OL, just not our T's.

    I am sure I will still be around when the season gets going.
    Feel free to come back and revisit this issue if you like, however, I
    would recommend you bring something other than your opinion (or a couple of youtube vids) if you want to change my mind cause the stats don't lie my friend. ;D
    Quick question:

    What is it about that article that gives you the warm fuzzy on Cook?

    He is below average in pass protection? ( And by the way, note the part in the article and the formations that they started using after the first few weeks of the season that had at least a TE and also many times a FB in there giving him help in pass protection)
    Did that guy provide a stat for how well he would have done if he had to go Mano-E-Mano against his responsibility like Mac did?

    The fact that we had more production running behind the guards that the tackles?

    As to his run blocking:

    Ranked 21st (of the 32 teams left tackle position) with a 4.09 yard blocking average of Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play, per Football Outsiders.

    I guess that there were 9 teams that were worse, so that is good.

    They recorded that 8% of plays were ran behind him and this gave Cook a 16.75 rating of 32 starting right tackles (15.5 being the middle of a bell curve type graph), almost dead average.
    Hey, almost dead average. That is where I always wish my team to be. Almost dead average.
    Meh I disagree with that. I'd say below average. The Vikings rushed for 2,634 last year, tops in the league. Their average of Adjusted Line Yards in each direction should be much higher than a team that rushed for only 1,797 (which is middle of the road)

    13% of the runs were behind McKinnie, 8% behind Cook.

    That means that 79% of all run plays were behind someone else. There's a reason for that.

    I also don't agree with this;

    Total
    Rush Yds Avg
    494 2634 5.3
    Left (tackle, tight end)
    112 554 4.9
    Middle (guard, center, guard)
    163 843 5.2
    Right (tackle, tight end)
    71 520 7.3

    Those numbers only add up to 1,917 YDS, not 2,634 YDS.

    What/who accounts for the other 717 YDS?
    Every team runs the ball more to the inside than the outside. The chance of actually gaining the edge are slim in the NFL, and the chance for loss of yards is a lot higher when your back has to stay in the backfield longer.

  9. #49
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    Re: Willie Anderson Cut

    All the more reason to bring Anderson in here. I agree with Uff said about Cook getting help from the TE or FB. Cook is not the best but McKinnie is slacking too IMO. OT is our weakest position. We need some help.

  10. #50
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    Re: Willie Anderson Cut

    "marstc09" wrote:
    All the more reason to bring Anderson in here. I agree with Uff said about Cook getting help from the TE or FB. Cook is not the best but McKinnie is slacking too IMO. OT is our weakest position. We need some help.
    Our starters are good enough. It's just we won't have one of them for 4 weeks. No way would Willie Anderson starts over Cook or McKinnie for a year, because he will most likely retire after that and we will stick Cook or McKinnie back in.
    Makes no sense.

    If he is willing to be a backup and can fill in for Mt McKinnie for 4 games then he's a good fit. I would rather have Anderson on the right and Cook on the left (I know marrdro two players in new position) then to put Hicks at LT.

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