Thread: Who has a better chance to succeed?

Originally Posted by tastywaves

I would take that bet. And when the season starts, I don't think we will have a less talented team on the field than last year. Unless Zygi gets so frustrated with the state of MN that he throws a big FU at 'em on his way out.

And I don't think Indy would have a less talented team on the field than last year. They draft too you know.

Originally Posted by singersp

And I don't think Indy would have a less talented team on the field than last year. They draft too you know.

They better draft well after releasing the likes of Dallas Clark, Pierre Garcon, Melvin Bullitt, Joseph Addai, Gary Brackett, Jeff Saturday and many others. They have let a much larger group of vets go than what we have and I wouldn't be surprised if they trade Freeney. The Colts are going to a 3-4 this year, taking Freeney into a position he is not excited about.

As bad you may believe the talent level is in MN, it is worse at Indy. They are in a complete rebuilding mode, they will fill the roster with youth to grow around Luck and they will be picking ahead of us again next year.

You want to see a pathetic offensive line, take a loot at the Colts current roster. Luck may never survive his rookie year and could very well be facing the David Carr syndrome.

I agree with Tasty... Indy's talent losses have been staggering. They are in full-blown rebuilding mode now, and it won't happen overnight for them any more than it will for us. They're worse off to start, and have more holes to fill, believe it or not.

As to the actual topic of the thread, I can't really answer without a proper definition of "succeed."
If we're talking individually, then in the short term I'd say Griffin, but over the long haul I'd lay odds on Luck lasting longer and being more productive. If we're talking wins and losses, I'm going with Ponder for this year, but not by much. The Colts are abysmal, and the Redskins play in a division that is nearly as tough as ours. For overall career team success, I'm leaning toward Luck, but that's a long way down the road. Give the three of them a couple of years in the league and then ask me again.

Originally Posted by tastywaves

They better draft well after releasing the likes of Dallas Clark, Pierre Garcon, Melvin Bullitt, Joseph Addai, Gary Brackett, Jeff Saturday and many others. They have let a much larger group of vets go than what we have and I wouldn't be surprised if they trade Freeney. The Colts are going to a 3-4 this year, taking Freeney into a position he is not excited about.

As bad you may believe the talent level is in MN, it is worse at Indy. They are in a complete rebuilding mode, they will fill the roster with youth to grow around Luck and they will be picking ahead of us again next year.

You want to see a pathetic offensive line, take a loot at the Colts current roster. Luck may never survive his rookie year and could very well be facing the David Carr syndrome.

The Colts won 2 of the last 3 games they played with a mediocre Kerry Collins behind center. How many of our last 8 did we win with Ponder under center.

Now remove several vets from that team. We did not get better. We got worse. Yes we both are rebuilding but the Colts have a few more things going for them than we do.

They are building a team around Luck. We we are amassing 1 year contract mediocre players & plugging in Ponder as QB. Next year we will be re-addressing those 1 year contract players. If any of them panned out, they'll be FA's.

As bad as you say their OL was, they gave up 35 sacks. Our OL gave up 49 & that was with Hutch & Herrera. We don't even know who the starting OL men are that will replace those two & we haven't even addressed Charlie Johnson at LT yet. Their rag-tag QB squad still threw for as many yards as our QB's did

You might want to rethink whose OL is worse right now.

Also, their GM is not Rick Spielman. Ours is. He hasn't done anything newsworthy this offseason to improve Ponders odds of success other than bringing in a convicted drug felon WR to see if he might be an upgrade to our WR corp.

My guess is the Colts will do a better job at surrounding their QB with talented personnel than the Vikings will do and while Luck is having success throwing the ball, we will still be trying to pound the ball with AD.

Originally Posted by singersp

The Colts won 2 of the last 3 games they played with a mediocre Kerry Collins behind center. How many of our last 8 did we win with Ponder under center.

Now remove several vets from that team. We did not get better. We got worse. Yes we both are rebuilding but the Colts have a few more things going for them than we do.

They are building a team around Luck. We we are amassing 1 year contract mediocre players & plugging in Ponder as QB. Next year we will be re-addressing those 1 year contract players. If any of them panned out, they'll be FA's.

As bad as you say their OL was, they gave up 35 sacks. Our OL gave up 49 & that was with Hutch & Herrera. We don't even know who the starting OL men are that will replace those two & we haven't even addressed Charlie Johnson at LT yet. Their rag-tag QB squad still threw for as many yards as our QB's did

You might want to rethink whose OL is worse right now.

Also, their GM is not Rick Spielman. Ours is. He hasn't done anything newsworthy this offseason to improve Ponders odds of success other than bringing in a convicted drug felon WR to see if he might be an upgrade to our WR corp.

My guess is the Colts will do a better job at surrounding their QB with talented personnel than the Vikings will do and while Luck is having success throwing the ball, we will still be trying to pound the ball with AD.

Your arguments appear to be directed out beyond next year, where our 1 year contract guys come into effect and whatever talent they surround Luck with starts to develop. The Colts OL has been depleted from last year (Saturday is in GB and Diem has retired), and they are bringing in a rookie QB. Their last remaining OL'man that played solid last year is their rookie LT. Good thing Luck is a big strong guy with good legs, it may just allow him to survive.

Forget about how the Colts finished the season, that team no longer exists.

They are also bringing in a rookie defensive minded head coach who probably will be looking to find a few defensive players in the draft this year to help transition the team to a 3-4. They have a new OC as well, bringing in Arians from Pittsburgh. He is a fan of passing the ball, so would expect them to focus on that aspect of the offense, problem is it takes the longest to put together and there will be a plethora of newbies that are learning on the fly.

I understand how negative you are on the Vikings, but I would still pick the Vikings record over Indy next year. Our shit will shine a little more than Indy's.

I would put Wasington in last place because the Redskins will continue to try to build almost exclusively through free agency. Missing those 2 extra first round picks puts them in a big whole.
Between the Vikings and Colts, I'm going with the Vikings. The Vikings have high draft picks invested in the O-line, TE and RB positions. WR is the big weakness right now. It's really not a fair comparison though, because the Colts are just beginning the rebuild process, where the Vikings are in year 2.

Originally Posted by singersp

I can't believe 4 people think Ponder will be more successful than Luck.

Did we acquire Larry Fitzgerald & Calvin Johnson or something?

Perhaps they feel the Colts might trade Luck plus a draft pick to us for Ponder.

If you read the 1st post he kinda lays out what he is asking. It's not which QB is best, it's what team will do the most to help their QB. At least that's the way I took it.

Originally Posted by tastywaves

Forget about how the Colts finished the season, that team no longer exists.

What a coincidence, neither does ours.

Out of last years OL, we'll be starting only two of the 5 linemen. Sullivan & our "can't believe he's still our RT" Loadholt, who single handily is responsible for almost 20% of the 50 sacks on our QB & numerous penalties.

Originally Posted by jmcdon00

If you read the 1st post he kinda lays out what he is asking. It's not which QB is best, it's what team will do the most to help their QB. At least that's the way I took it.

The way I understand it, It's which QB will have the most success based on the players the team puts around him.

He has never clarified how that QB's success will be measured. Will it be wins-losses or will it be by Passing Yards-TD's_INT's-QB Rating?

One would tend to be the latter, which is a direct result of how good the QB, OL & WR's are.

There is no way to measure the QB's success without taking into account the QB's talent.

As it is, t sounds like it leaves the door open for someone to claim Luck or RGBIII would have done worse than Ponder if they were on our team.

Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple

Remember though, a guy who passed well in College does not mean he'll be a good NFL passer. I have no doubt he'll be a run first guy early on. It's easier to take off after one or two reads than stick in, go through the full progression and then run. If he tries to do the latter, I don't think he'll succeed. He will play to his strengths, which is running right now.

you mean like Ponder was last year??? ponder was def. a run first qb last year... and he couldnt' even throw in college...