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  1. #11
    jmcdon00's Avatar
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    Re: What Do These QB's Have In Common?

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [size=30pt]Patience with Quarterbacks [/size]

    Moral of the story:
    Even after 48 games, you may not know who will will rise to the top.
    To think you know after 16, is just plain dumb. Everyone needs to quit pretending they are an expert and let the professionals do their job.
    When you call for Tavaris Jackson, Donovan McNabb or Brian Griese to be run out of town, realize you also would have called for the heads of half a dozen Hall of Famers.
    Probably more.

    http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/...h-quarterbacks

    Marrdro's comment follows:
    Found this one and it kindof dovetailed with my original question.
    Ironic huh.

    :
    I could be wrong (i'm not) but didn't favre come in for an injured player as a "project" and never looked back?
    Sure, he didn't blow the socks of anyone, but he only twice had a sub-50 QB rating his first season as a starter.
    he went 9-6 as a starter.
    He did, but the following year he threw 24interceptions(lead the nfl) and fumbled 14 times. I'm sure someone in Greenbay at that time was calling for whoever the backup was.

  2. #12
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: What Do These QB's Have In Common?

    Several of those people do not belong on that list.

    Fav-re - never in the same situation as TJack
    Johnson - ummm, he started with the VIkings, remember.
    Then lost his job after an injury.
    Had nothing to do with patience.
    Steve Young - played under Montana for SEVERAL years, and even then looked good as a backup.

    There are more, but the bottom line is that putting QBs who aren't ready into the starting lineup and then having "patience" with them is not the answer.
    Sure, every once in a while you will find a gem.
    But more often than not you will find a rock.
    That is what so many people who AREN'T football coaches fail to understand.

    The ownership, coaches and front office staff, however, do understand it.
    That is why the pwnership, coaches and front office staff in Minnesota traded for Sage and are courting Fav-re.
    It kills me that there are people here who think that they know more than the ownership, coaches, and front office staff, and insist that we need to give TJack yet another try as starter just because they think he improved enough last year.

    I am OK with TJack being a backup, because that is the level of play that he has consistently demonstrated so far in his career.
    I am not OK with him being a starter for the same reason.
    Unfortunately for TJack, he was pushed into a starting spot in his first year, which was at least 3 years too soon IMHO.
    The result was a fan base who had to struggle through the WORST TWO YEARS OF QB PLAY IN VIKINGS HISTORY (or at very least the worst QB play in a decade).
    There is little or nothing TJack can do now to win back the fan base.
    Fair or not, it is the reality of the situation.

    Trade him somewhere that he can have a chance to succeed, because he no longer has that chance here in MN.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  3. #13
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: What Do These QB's Have In Common?

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [size=30pt]Patience with Quarterbacks [/size]

    Moral of the story:
    Even after 48 games, you may not know who will will rise to the top.
    To think you know after 16, is just plain dumb. Everyone needs to quit pretending they are an expert and let the professionals do their job.
    When you call for Tavaris Jackson, Donovan McNabb or Brian Griese to be run out of town, realize you also would have called for the heads of half a dozen Hall of Famers.
    Probably more.

    http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/...h-quarterbacks

    Marrdro's comment follows:
    Found this one and it kindof dovetailed with my original question.
    Ironic huh.

    :
    I could be wrong (i'm not) but didn't favre come in for an injured player as a "project" and never looked back?
    Sure, he didn't blow the socks of anyone, but he only twice had a sub-50 QB rating his first season as a starter.
    he went 9-6 as a starter.
    He did, but the following year he threw 24interceptions(lead the nfl) and fumbled 14 times. I'm sure someone in Greenbay at that time was calling for whoever the backup was.
    I don't know - they were 9-7, made the playoffs that year, and beat the Lions in a comeback win in the first round of the playoffs that year.

    The Packers overcame a 17-7 third quarter deficit as quarterback Brett Favre threw a 40-yard game-winning touchdown pass to wide receiver Sterling Sharpe with 55 seconds left. Favre and Sharpe connected on three scores during the game.
    In the next game, which the Pack lost to the Cowboys, Favre finished the game with 331 passing yards, just 1 yard short of a Packers playoff record.

    After playoff games like that, I bet the calls for his head were quieted quite a bit.
    Had TJack had a game like that against Philly, he wouldn't be facing the adversity he is now.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #14
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re: What Do These QB's Have In Common?

    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [size=30pt]Patience with Quarterbacks [/size]

    Moral of the story:
    Even after 48 games, you may not know who will will rise to the top.
    To think you know after 16, is just plain dumb. Everyone needs to quit pretending they are an expert and let the professionals do their job.
    When you call for Tavaris Jackson, Donovan McNabb or Brian Griese to be run out of town, realize you also would have called for the heads of half a dozen Hall of Famers.
    Probably more.

    http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/...h-quarterbacks

    Marrdro's comment follows:
    Found this one and it kindof dovetailed with my original question.
    Ironic huh.

    :
    I could be wrong (i'm not) but didn't favre come in for an injured player as a "project" and never looked back?
    Sure, he didn't blow the socks of anyone, but he only twice had a sub-50 QB rating his first season as a starter.
    he went 9-6 as a starter.
    He did, but the following year he threw 24interceptions(lead the nfl) and fumbled 14 times. I'm sure someone in Greenbay at that time was calling for whoever the backup was.
    Maybe but he also made the playoffs that year and won a playoff game.

  5. #15
    marstc09's Avatar
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    Re: What Do These QB's Have In Common?

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "jmcdon00" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [size=30pt]Patience with Quarterbacks [/size]

    Moral of the story:
    Even after 48 games, you may not know who will will rise to the top.
    To think you know after 16, is just plain dumb. Everyone needs to quit pretending they are an expert and let the professionals do their job.
    When you call for Tavaris Jackson, Donovan McNabb or Brian Griese to be run out of town, realize you also would have called for the heads of half a dozen Hall of Famers.
    Probably more.

    http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/...h-quarterbacks

    Marrdro's comment follows:
    Found this one and it kindof dovetailed with my original question.
    Ironic huh.

    :
    I could be wrong (i'm not) but didn't favre come in for an injured player as a "project" and never looked back?
    Sure, he didn't blow the socks of anyone, but he only twice had a sub-50 QB rating his first season as a starter.
    he went 9-6 as a starter.
    He did, but the following year he threw 24interceptions(lead the nfl) and fumbled 14 times. I'm sure someone in Greenbay at that time was calling for whoever the backup was.
    I don't know - they were 9-7, made the playoffs that year, and beat the Lions in a comeback win in the first round of the playoffs that year.

    The Packers overcame a 17-7 third quarter deficit as quarterback Brett Favre threw a 40-yard game-winning touchdown pass to wide receiver Sterling Sharpe with 55 seconds left. Favre and Sharpe connected on three scores during the game.
    In the next game, which the Pack lost to the Cowboys, Favre finished the game with 331 passing yards, just 1 yard short of a Packers playoff record.

    After playoff games like that, I bet the calls for his head were quieted quite a bit.
    Had TJack had a game like that against Philly, he wouldn't be facing the adversity he is now.
    That was better than my post. +1

  6. #16
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    Re: What Do These QB's Have In Common?

    "vikes2456" wrote:
    And theres also plenty of QBs who were given patience, and still not succeeded. All depends how you look at it
    +1

    Chargers gave Ryan Leaf 18 starts, would he have gotten better
    Seahawks gave Rick Mirer 4 years and 51 starts, rating 64
    Bengals gave David Klingler, 3 years, 24 starts, never broke 70 rating, down hill the next 3 years

    I'm sure I could have came up with TONS more if I didn't go with high 1st round draft picks.

    That said, TJ could very well mature and become a good QB, but it won't hurt him to sit and learn, like Rodgers did for 3 years.

    [size=12pt]
    Page 148.5 **Doleman 150.5 **Randle 137.5 **Allen 73+
    [/size]

  7. #17
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    Re: What Do These QB's Have In Common?

    "vikes2456" wrote:
    And theres also plenty of QBs who were given patience, and still not succeeded. All depends how you look at it
    Akili Smith
    Tim Couch
    Rick Mier
    David Klingler
    Quincy Carter
    Ryan Leaf

    This argumnet is a mute point as it can easily be twisted any way

  8. #18
    midgensa's Avatar
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    Re: What Do These QB's Have In Common?

    All right you asked for it:

    TARVARIS JACKSON - 3 years, 19 starts, 10-9 record, 3,442 yards, 20 TD, 18 INTs, 76.5 rating

    Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - Didn't sniff the field until he had been in the league for six years, but then proceeded to - throw for 29 TDs and go to a Pro Bowl and make All-Pro with a 98.3 rating in his first season as a starter (T-Jack has already had two seasons as a starter and has not sniffed those numbers)

    Johnny Unitas, Baltimore Colts - In his first season he was the starter, but the time he had played TWO seasons he was a Pro Bowler and three seasons (where T-Jack is) he played in two Pro Bowls, was an All-Pro and won a freakin World Championship (hardly comparable to T-Jack right). Just for shits and giggles ... his three years in the league - 6,000 yards, 52 TDs, 34 INTs. What kind of idiot would write an article saying that the fans would had given up on this guy? And what kind of idiot would then use that article to back up his point without looking up the numbers?


    Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Was not named starter until his third year in the league, promptly went 10-0 (10 and fucking 0! What did T-Jack do in his third year?). Was an All-Pro with a 104 rating!

    Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders - Actually ... what the fuck is he on this list for? He was never an above average QB ... he just happen to win two Super Bowls with a solid cast around him. He was a weak link on that team and never sniffed a Pro Bowl. So personally, if this is the best T-Jack can do, then bye Tarvaris.

    Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins - A decent example because he actually sucked when he was given the reigns and probably should have been run out of town.

    Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - Are you fucking kidding me? What the fuck is this guy doing on the list? He pretty much always sucked as well. Had one good year on a team that pretty much any QB could have done well on. And actually ... his numbers sucked that year too. If T-Jack is only Jim McMahon ... run that little shit out of town.

    Doug Williams, Washington Redskins - Sucked his whole career. Again ... if T-Jack is only as good as Doug Williams ... bye bye.

    Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - Was behind Joe fucking Montana! Do you see T-Jack being held back by Joe fucking Montana? Stupid fucking argument. Everyone knew he was great, but the 49ers had him locked down. He had two years of awfulness in T.Bay ... and was kind of a commodity after they parted ways, the 49ers brought him in an sured up the position through 1998.

    Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - Went to the fucking Pro Bowl in his first season with the Packers. Again, how is this comparable to T-Jack? Favre was great as soon as he got the reigns ... T-Jack has had the reigns twice ... and been pretty shitty both times.

    John Elway, Denver Broncos - John Elway went 12-2 his second year followed by two 11-5 seasons. How is this comparable to T-Jack? Three years into the NFL, Elway had thrown for 8,000 fucking yards. Again ... not comparable.

    Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - The complete anti-argument to this. Warner threw 41 TDs his first year as a starter in the fucking league. T-Jack didn't did he? Hell, I don't know. From some of the T-Jack ball-lickers around here it seems he may have indeed thrown 41 TDs in the Arizona game last season.

    Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - Sucks.

    Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Had been given up on by a couple teams already. Tampa could have won with 1,000 other QBs ... but not T-Jack.

    Eli Manning, New York Giants - A decent comparison. Though by the time he had been in the league three years he had been to the playoffs twice, had accounted for 8,000 yards and 54 TDs. So wait ... not a good comparison at all.

    Why do people keep fucking bringing up players from the past as if they have ANYTHING TO DO WITH TARVARIS JACKSON?
    Tarvaris Jackson is simply Tarvaris Jackson ... not John Elway, not Brett Favre, not Len Dawson, not even Doug fucking Williams.
    If the best argument you have for keeping T-Jack in at QB is that he has not sucked long enough to make a fair assessment because Joe Theismann sucked for 8 years so we should wait until T-Jack has sucked at least that long ... then it is time to come up with a new argument.

  9. #19
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    Re: What Do These QB's Have In Common?

    "midgensa" wrote:
    All right you asked for it:

    TARVARIS JACKSON - 3 years, 19 starts, 10-9 record, 3,442 yards, 20 TD, 18 INTs, 76.5 rating

    Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - Didn't sniff the field until he had been in the league for six years, but then proceeded to - throw for 29 TDs and go to a Pro Bowl and make All-Pro with a 98.3 rating in his first season as a starter (T-Jack has already had two seasons as a starter and has not sniffed those numbers)

    Johnny Unitas, Baltimore Colts - In his first season he was the starter, but the time he had played TWO seasons he was a Pro Bowler and three seasons (where T-Jack is) he played in two Pro Bowls, was an All-Pro and won a freakin World Championship (hardly comparable to T-Jack right). Just for poohies and giggles ... his three years in the league - 6,000 yards, 52 TDs, 34 INTs. What kind of idiot would write an article saying that the fans would had given up on this guy? And what kind of idiot would then use that article to back up his point without looking up the numbers?


    Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Was not named starter until his third year in the league, promptly went 10-0 (10 and fricken 0! What did T-Jack do in his third year?). Was an All-Pro with a 104 rating!

    Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders - Actually ... what the floop is he on this list for? He was never an above average QB ... he just happen to win two Super Bowls with a solid cast around him. He was a weak link on that team and never sniffed a Pro Bowl. So personally, if this is the best T-Jack can do, then bye Tarvaris.

    Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins - A decent example because he actually sucked when he was given the reigns and probably should have been run out of town.

    Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - Are you fricken kidding me? What the floop is this guy doing on the list? He pretty much always sucked as well. Had one good year on a team that pretty much any QB could have done well on. And actually ... his numbers sucked that year too. If T-Jack is only Jim McMahon ... run that little pooh out of town.

    Doug Williams, Washington Redskins - Sucked his hole career. Again ... if T-Jack is only as good as Doug Williams ... bye bye.

    Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - Was behind Joe fricken Montana! Do you see T-Jack being held back by Joe fricken Montana? Stupid fricken argument. Everyone knew he was great, but the 49ers had him locked down. He had two years of awfulness in T.Bay ... and was kind of a commodity after they parted ways, the 49ers brought him in an sured up the position through 1998.

    Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - Went to the fricken Pro Bowl in his first season with the Packers. Again, how is this comparable to T-Jack? Favre was great as soon as he got the reigns ... T-Jack has had the reigns twice ... and been pretty poohie both times.

    John Elway, Denver Broncos - John Elway went 12-2 his second year followed by two 11-5 seasons. How is this comparable to T-Jack? Three years into the NFL, Elway had thrown for 8,000 fricken yards. Again ... not comparable.

    Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - The complete anti-argument to this. Warner threw 41 TDs his first year as a starter in the fricken league. T-Jack didn't did he? Hell, I don't know. From some of the T-Jack ball-lickers around here it seems he may have indeed thrown 41 TDs in the Arizona game last season.

    Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - Sucks.

    Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Had been given up on by a couple teams already. Tampa could have won with 1,000 other QBs ... but not T-Jack.

    Eli Manning, New York Giants - A decent comparison. Though by the time he had been in the league three years he had been to the playoffs twice, had accounted for 8,000 yards and 54 TDs. So wait ... not a good comparison at all.

    Why do people keep fricken bringing up players from the past as if they have ANYTHING TO DO WITH TARVARIS JACKSON?
    Tarvaris Jackson is simply Tarvaris Jackson ... not John Elway, not Brett Favre, not Len Dawson, not even Doug fricken Williams.
    If the best argument you have for keeping T-Jack in at QB is that he has not sucked long enough to make a fair assessment because Joe Theismann sucked for 8 years so we should wait until T-Jack has sucked at least that long ... then it is time to come up with a new argument.
    [size=17pt]+1[/size]

    That was brilliant.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  10. #20
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: What Do These QB's Have In Common?

    "midgensa" wrote:
    All right you asked for it:

    TARVARIS JACKSON - 3 years, 19 starts, 10-9 record, 3,442 yards, 20 TD, 18 INTs, 76.5 rating

    Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - Didn't sniff the field until he had been in the league for six years, but then proceeded to - throw for 29 TDs and go to a Pro Bowl and make All-Pro with a 98.3 rating in his first season as a starter (T-Jack has already had two seasons as a starter and has not sniffed those numbers)

    Johnny Unitas, Baltimore Colts - In his first season he was the starter, but the time he had played TWO seasons he was a Pro Bowler and three seasons (where T-Jack is) he played in two Pro Bowls, was an All-Pro and won a freakin World Championship (hardly comparable to T-Jack right). Just for shits and giggles ... his three years in the league - 6,000 yards, 52 TDs, 34 INTs. What kind of idiot would write an article saying that the fans would had given up on this guy? And what kind of idiot would then use that article to back up his point without looking up the numbers?


    Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - Was not named starter until his third year in the league, promptly went 10-0 (10 and fucking 0! What did T-Jack do in his third year?). Was an All-Pro with a 104 rating!

    Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders - Actually ... what the fuck is he on this list for? He was never an above average QB ... he just happen to win two Super Bowls with a solid cast around him. He was a weak link on that team and never sniffed a Pro Bowl. So personally, if this is the best T-Jack can do, then bye Tarvaris.

    Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins - A decent example because he actually sucked when he was given the reigns and probably should have been run out of town.

    Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - Are you fucking kidding me? What the fuck is this guy doing on the list? He pretty much always sucked as well. Had one good year on a team that pretty much any QB could have done well on. And actually ... his numbers sucked that year too. If T-Jack is only Jim McMahon ... run that little shit out of town.

    Doug Williams, Washington Redskins - Sucked his hole career. Again ... if T-Jack is only as good as Doug Williams ... bye bye.

    Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - Was behind Joe fucking Montana! Do you see T-Jack being held back by Joe fucking Montana? Stupid fucking argument. Everyone knew he was great, but the 49ers had him locked down. He had two years of awfulness in T.Bay ... and was kind of a commodity after they parted ways, the 49ers brought him in an sured up the position through 1998.

    Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - Went to the fucking Pro Bowl in his first season with the Packers. Again, how is this comparable to T-Jack? Favre was great as soon as he got the reigns ... T-Jack has had the reigns twice ... and been pretty shitty both times.

    John Elway, Denver Broncos - John Elway went 12-2 his second year followed by two 11-5 seasons. How is this comparable to T-Jack? Three years into the NFL, Elway had thrown for 8,000 fucking yards. Again ... not comparable.

    Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - The complete anti-argument to this. Warner threw 41 TDs his first year as a starter in the fucking league. T-Jack didn't did he? Hell, I don't know. From some of the T-Jack ball-lickers around here it seems he may have indeed thrown 41 TDs in the Arizona game last season.

    Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - Sucks.

    Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Had been given up on by a couple teams already. Tampa could have won with 1,000 other QBs ... but not T-Jack.

    Eli Manning, New York Giants - A decent comparison. Though by the time he had been in the league three years he had been to the playoffs twice, had accounted for 8,000 yards and 54 TDs. So wait ... not a good comparison at all.

    Why do people keep fucking bringing up players from the past as if they have ANYTHING TO DO WITH TARVARIS JACKSON?
    Tarvaris Jackson is simply Tarvaris Jackson ... not John Elway, not Brett Favre, not Len Dawson, not even Doug fucking Williams.
    If the best argument you have for keeping T-Jack in at QB is that he has not sucked long enough to make a fair assessment because Joe Theismann sucked for 8 years so we should wait until T-Jack has sucked at least that long ... then it is time to come up with a new argument.
    fuck..... +1
    I like

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