View Poll Results: What will be the best DT duo in 2013?

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  • Vikings' Kevin Williams and Sharrif Floyd

    2 22.22%
  • Lions' Ndamukong Suh and Nick Fairley

    4 44.44%
  • Bills' Kyle Williams and Marcell Dareus

    1 11.11%
  • Dolphins' Paul Soliai and Randy Starks

    0 0%
  • Bengals' Geno Atkins and Domata Peko

    2 22.22%
  • Bears' Henry Melton and Stephen Paea

    0 0%
  • Other teams

    0 0%
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Thread: Top 5 DT duos

  1. #1
    HEY's Avatar
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    Top 5 DT duos

    Top 5 defensive tackle tandems in the NFL

    1. Ndamukong Suh and Nick Fairley, Detroit Lions: Even if you disagree, it's hard to argue that the Lions don't have the NFL's best pass-rushing interior tandem.
    5. Henry Melton and Stephen Paea, Chicago Bears: Paea still has room to grow; you get a sense he doesn't use his incredible strength just yet. Melton emerged as one of the NFL's best interior pass rushers.
    After this season, there will be another NFC North team on that list! It's time to reclaim the title of best DT tandem in the NFL. It wasn't too long ago since the Vikings' Williams Wall dominated for many years.

    - - - - -

    While we're on the subject of defensive linemen, of all the positions in the NFL, the Minnesota Vikings have perhaps the NFL's most proud history at that position. With Hall of Famers like Allan Page and John Randle who both make a good case for the "greatest of all-time" title, it's hard to argue otherwise. Allen Page is probably the best DT there has ever been. He's the only defensive lineman to have been the NFL MVP. John Randle is my all-time favorite DT and perhaps the greatest pass-rushing DT of all-time, arguably even better than Allan Page.

    As for the best defensive tackle duos of all-time, Gary Larsen and Allen Page have my vote. I also believe Pat Williams and Kevin Williams make a strong case as the best duo of the 21st century. I really believe the Vikings can reclaim the tittle they had a few years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HEY View Post
    Top 5 defensive tackle tandems in the NFL

    [COLOR="#000000"]


    After this season, there will be another NFC North team on that list! It's time to reclaim the title of best DT tandem in the NFL. It wasn't too long ago since the Vikings' Williams Wall dominated for many years.
    Doubtful. Not because we've got two good players, but becasue KW and Floyd play the same position. They won't be on the field on the same time most of the time.

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    jmcdon00's Avatar
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    People want to act like Floyd was a top 5 pick, but he wasn't, he was picked 23, the third DT taken. I think we need to lower our expectations a little bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmcdon00 View Post
    People want to act like Floyd was a top 5 pick, but he wasn't, he was picked 23, the third DT taken. I think we need to lower our expectations a little bit.
    Exactly. YEah, he's got potential, but don't expect Randle in his prime on game one. Maybe he'll turn into a good player, but remember, there are DTs drafted in the first year evey year. Sometimes more. They don't always turn into complete studs.

    Let's wait a bit an dsee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_bleed_purple View Post
    KW and Floyd play the same position. They won't be on the field on the same time most of the time.
    How can you be sure that they both won't be the starting DT's?
    1. Just because they both play the 3-technique the best does not mean they can't play any other position.
    2. Just because a DT doesn't fit the 330+ pound criteria doesn't mean he can't be a force against the run. There's other way to beat double teams than with just power.
    3. Let's say Floyd and Williams start. I'm fine with giving up a little edge against the running back if it gives us an edge against the QB.
    3a. This is a QB league.
    3b. Minnesota as a team is designed to score early and play prevent defense. That was at least the recipe last year. This makes for far more pass-rushing situation.
    3c. The Vikings play in an extremely pass-happy division.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmcdon00 View Post
    People want to act like Floyd was a top 5 pick, but he wasn't, he was picked 23, the third DT taken. I think we need to lower our expectations a little bit.
    I don't base my evaluation on where a guy is drafted. Scouts and GM's make mistakes all the time (e.g. Tom Brady in the sixth round).
    1. Floyd was projected to go in the top 5 by many highly respected experts. Mayock for example had him gone at number 3 to the Raiders.
    2. I don't really care what other people say. Watch film on Floyd and then tell me number 23 was a fair spot for him to be drafted!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HEY View Post
    [COLOR="#000000"]How can you be sure that they both won't be the starting DT's?
    1. Just because they both play the 3-technique the best does not mean they can't play any other position.
    True, but doesn't mean they will be effective at it. Joe Webb can play receiver, but he sucks at it.
    2. Just because a DT doesn't fit the 330+ pound criteria doesn't mean he can't be a force against the run. There's other way to beat double teams than with just power.
    The point of a nosetackle isn't to beat a doubleteam, it's to clog the middle of the line. With Pat, he'd line up off the Center, and push him back into the A gap, filling up both A gaps with one guy. We haven't had a guy who can do that well in a long time. THey're not going to ask Floyd to do that right away as a rookie. There will be sets where they're both in at the same time, but don't expect a ton of it right away.

    3. Let's say Floyd and Williams start. I'm fine with giving up a little edge against the running back if it gives us an edge against the QB.
    We've had no edge against the run. We have played relatively poorly against the run in the past few years. In games against teams like the Redskins, Panthers, or other teams with a fast QB, giving up holes in the middle is the way to lose
    3a. This is a QB league.
    So stick 4 DEs out there at all times?
    3b. Minnesota as a team is designed to score early and play prevent defense. That was at least the recipe last year. This makes for far more pass-rushing situation.
    Except we often didn't come out early and score, and the prevent is an awful way to play defense. We came out early against the redskins.. they ran it up our gut, then sealed the deal with a long RGIII run.




    I don't base my evaluation on where a guy is drafted. Scouts and GM's make mistakes all the time (e.g. Tom Brady in the sixth round).
    1. Floyd was projected to go in the top 5 by many highly respected experts. Mayock for example had him gone at number 3 to the Raiders.
    2. I don't really care what other people say. Watch film on Floyd and then tell me number 23 was a fair spot for him to be drafted!
    Nobody's saying we didn't get a goodp layer. The point is to see what we have. There are busts all over. Players that 'can't fail' sometimes just suck. I don't expect that, but hopefully his statistical production in college isn't an indication of what he'll do in the pros. I'm not doubting it, I"m not being pessimistic, I'm just saying to pump the brakes a bit and let the kid take a single snap in training camp before crowing him the cat's ass.

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    Normally, I think you make intelligent comments and I like reading your posts, i_bleed_purple,
    This time, however, well... I digress.

    1. I practically asked only one question: what makes you apparently so sure that both Sharrif Floyd and Kevin Williams can't play the majority of the snaps together? You didn't really answer that throughout your whole post. I'm just curious of what you see from Kevin Williams and Sharrif Floyd that is so obvious that I'm missing it. That's all!

    You don't have to go all-out commenting all my points. Don't get me wrong here, I always like to hear others' point of views, but those were just my point of views, not questions. I would have liked that you answered what I actually questioned if you were to reply at all.

    2. What are you talking about!? The point of the nose tackle is to take on double-teams. Wow, if you really think the NT goes one-on-one against the center all the time then you are really far behind on this subject. Thus, I'll stay away from commenting more on this.

    3. You're saying "we have played relatively poorly against the run" is totally bogus! And we're not even talking about opinion here, but actual facts. As far as I can recall, the Vikings have been among the top run-stoppers for the last 10 years. It's a statistical fact that the Vikings were a top 10 run-stopping team last year, even with a downgrade at DT. Again, you are wrong.

    The ironic thing is that your bringing up scrambling QB's as another point. First of all, a running QB versus a conventional inside hand-off are two very different situations for a DT. Many QB's we play get room to step up in the middle because our DT's do not get good penetration. How will a slow fat DT help with that when you can have Floyd there instead who is superb at penetrating the line? Using fast QB's as your case is just shooting yourself in the foot.

    3. I guess (and hope) you're trying to be funny when saying "stick 4 DEs out there at all times?", but at this point there's not even worth having an intelligent discussion if you're intending to make such irrelevant remark that clearly are meant to spoof rather than contribute to the discussion.

    3b. Sorry, I went a little ahead of myself here! I said that the Vikings score early which is not really my point. My point is (ironically) that the Vikings score slowly. In other words, our philosophy is the run-game. We are not a high-scoring offense, instead we rely on wearing down the opponent's defense while our defense prevent the opposing team from reaching the end-zone.

    .. But back to what you said: "we often didn't come out early and score". I remember otherwise. I don't have the statistics so I might be wrong, but it seemed that the Vikings took the lead early last season. Find the stats and I'll eat my words of course. I could look it up myself, but I'm a bit lazy today, plus I feel bad for putting you on blast so much already.

    As for brining up the Readskins game, that was also the only game last year I remember where our defense really struggled against the run. I actually was shocked over how our unit played in that game, which brings me to my point: Bringing up one bad day and disregarding 10 other good days is not a reasonable process of thought. Everyone has a bad day!

    I don't crown Floyd anything! I simply envision how his play most likely will translate to the NFL.

    I commented on jmcdon00's post because he basically said we need to lower our expectations based on where a player was drafted. Which, in my opinion, is a ridiculous reason. Why lower my opinion based on a draft selection order when I can personally form my own opinion from actually researching the player myself. So many fans are blinded by shallow facts. Is it because of laziness... I don't know. I don't care if Floyd was the first player drafted (which was a good possibility) and there's always players who fall in the draft. Everyone should take such things with a grain of salt and do some research themselves if they want to express their opinion.

    You bring up Sharrif Floyd's college stats, but I've yet to hear one single comment on how he perform on the field. Again, you're arguing against yourself because a nose tackle is the ultimate example of how you can't judge a player based of his statistics.
    Last edited by HEY; 05-16-2013 at 10:37 PM.

  8. #8
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    I almost went with Williams and Dareus but stuck with Atkins and my boy Peko. And not because I'm a closet Bengals fan either. Anyone who appreciates two bigs working together in the middle will grab ahold of those two in an instant and give them your vote.

    Those two up in there in Bills country are a close second.

    As to the whole Vikings discussion. Look fellas, you don't have to weigh 587 lbs to be a warpig. A warpig is a guy who can get in there, demand a double and beat it more times than not either at the 1 or the 3 tech.

    The reason why our current candidate to carry the title of "Warpig" slipped in this draft has nothing to do with his piggedness. It had everything to do with what his coaching staff did to him by playing him all over the line.
    Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

    For the Vikings, this was a good thing because I think some of the staffs that needed DT's were a bit confused in how to grade the kid out.

    In the end, you don't get that many tackles for loss (playing in the middle) if you can't beat a double team

    I think that over the first quarter of the season you will see him in rotation duty behind K-dubb, but as the season goes on I think you wills see that he is played at both the 3 and the 1 tech and he will do good in both places.

    Maybe he won't have the "Glaring Stats" that most of you will look for to give him a passing grade for the year, but for those that love to watch that position, I think he is going to be damn fun to watch especially with the likes of Ballard and Guion next to him as the season wears on and with K-dubb if they can keep him fresh.

    I for one can't wait to see the following front four strap it on and bow up......

    RDE Griff 3 Tech Ballard 1 Tech Shariff LDE Rob

    Throw this one in as the second most wanted to see for me....

    RDE JA 3 Tech Guion 1 Tech Shariff (flip flop your 1 and 3 pre-snap) LDE Griff

    Yowzer......

    I think it will take a few games for Guion, Ballard and Shariff to get it all together but those three in the middle are going to be fun to watch for years to come my friends.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrdro View Post
    I almost went with Williams and Dareus but stuck with Atkins and my boy Peko. And not because I'm a closet Bengals fan either. Anyone who appreciates two bigs working together in the middle will grab ahold of those two in an instant and give them your vote.
    Those two up in there in Bills country are a close second.

    As to the whole Vikings discussion. Look fellas, you don't have to weigh 587 lbs to be a warpig. A warpig is a guy who can get in there, demand a double and beat it more times than not either at the 1 or the 3 tech.

    The reason why our current candidate to carry the title of "Warpig" slipped in this draft has nothing to do with his piggedness. It had everything to do with what his coaching staff did to him by playing him all over the line.
    Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

    For the Vikings, this was a good thing because I think some of the staffs that needed DT's were a bit confused in how to grade the kid out.

    In the end, you don't get that many tackles for loss (playing in the middle) if you can't beat a double team

    I think that over the first quarter of the season you will see him in rotation duty behind K-dubb, but as the season goes on I think you wills see that he is played at both the 3 and the 1 tech and he will do good in both places.

    Maybe he won't have the "Glaring Stats" that most of you will look for to give him a passing grade for the year, but for those that love to watch that position, I think he is going to be damn fun to watch especially with the likes of Ballard and Guion next to him as the season wears on and with K-dubb if they can keep him fresh.

    I for one can't wait to see the following front four strap it on and bow up......

    RDE Griff 3 Tech Ballard 1 Tech Shariff LDE Rob

    Throw this one in as the second most wanted to see for me....

    RDE JA 3 Tech Guion 1 Tech Shariff (flip flop your 1 and 3 pre-snap) LDE Griff

    Yowzer......

    I think it will take a few games for Guion, Ballard and Shariff to get it all together but those three in the middle are going to be fun to watch for years to come my friends.
    Jerry Ball was a warpig. Pat Williams was a warpig. Ted Washington was a warpig. I know you coined the phrase on here,but I am taking control of it now since you seem to have lost your focus on this one. Floyd is a 3 tech, not a warpig. Your move marr.
    Why must you defend everything this FO does....to the point of making your self look like a yes man.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEY View Post
    Top 5 defensive tackle tandems in the NFL




    After this season, there will be another NFC North team on that list! It's time to reclaim the title of best DT tandem in the NFL. It wasn't too long ago since the Vikings' Williams Wall dominated for many years.

    - - - - -

    While we're on the subject of defensive linemen, of all the positions in the NFL, the Minnesota Vikings have perhaps the NFL's most proud history at that position. With Hall of Famers like Allan Page and John Randle who both make a good case for the "greatest of all-time" title, it's hard to argue otherwise. Allen Page is probably the best DT there has ever been. He's the only defensive lineman to have been the NFL MVP. John Randle is my all-time favorite DT and perhaps the greatest pass-rushing DT of all-time, arguably even better than Allan Page.

    As for the best defensive tackle duos of all-time, Gary Larsen and Allen Page have my vote. I also believe Pat Williams and Kevin Williams make a strong case as the best duo of the 21st century. I really believe the Vikings can reclaim the tittle they had a few years ago.

    I am surprised you left the combo of Henry Thomas and Keith Millard off your list. They were hell on wheels.

    I still say the 1989 defensive line was the best overall we ever had and was one of the best in the history of the NFL.

    Chris Doleman- 21 sacks
    Al Noga- 11.5 Sacks
    Kieth Millard-18 Sacks as a DT
    Henry Thomas- 9 sacks as a DT

    And while Hardware Hank ONLY had 9 sacks, he was a beast, routinely taking two OL out of the equation and allowing the other 3 to get their numbers. 71 sacks by the defense in 1 year.

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