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  1. #11
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Tight ends a better decade than any position group

    Caine wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Remember when most on here (Except me and my good friend Singer) thought Shanc sucked...........
    Ummmm....in year one, Shanc DID suck. 27 receptions and 1 TD...

    In year two he did much better.

    Isn't it odd how his stats might just reflect WHO was throwing him the ball?

    Year 1: Jackson throwing...Shanc sucks bag.

    Year 2: Jackson benched, Frerotte comes in and Shanc catches 42 with 7 TDs.

    Year 3: Favre throwing, Shanc catches 56 with 11 TDs.

    .....hmmm....must be the O-line's fault that first year....

    :blink:

    Caine
    In all fairness Gus was good for only 4 of those TDs and TJ for 3.

    I am pretty sure if you looked at the frequencey on a per pass basis that Shanc was more productive with TJ than Gus in 2008.

    In 2008, Gus completed 178 passes - 27 of them to Shiancoe.
    Jackson completed 88 passes - 15 of them to Shiancoe.

    Based upon completions, Gus hit him 15% of the time to Jackson's 17%...a measely 2% difference. Not really all that impressive.

    However, it's worth noting that Jackson only hit Shiancoe 4 times in the first two games. And aside from the anomaly game (Atlanta, where Jackson hit Shiancoe 7 times), Jackson averaged less than 2 receptions per game with Shiancoe.

    Gus, meanwhile, was consistently hitting Visanthe @ 2.3 times per game, deviating between 1 and 4 receptions per game.

    So, no, Jackson wasn't really the more effective passer.

    The ONLY way you can construe this as a pro-Jackson point is to claim that Jackson's TD percentage with Shiancoe was better than Frerotte's - which is true. But his overall level of suck in '08 makes that rather irrelevant.

    And, as has already been stated in other threads, if Jackson's highest level of accomplishment is to be "almost as good" in 2008 as a now retired Gus Frerotte, then he really isn't all that good.

    Caine
    The main point being Gus did not throw 7 TD passes as inferred. B)
    None

  2. #12
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re:Tight ends a better decade than any position group

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Remember when most on here (Except me and my good friend Singer) thought Shanc sucked...........
    Ummmm....in year one, Shanc DID suck. 27 receptions and 1 TD...

    In year two he did much better.

    Isn't it odd how his stats might just reflect WHO was throwing him the ball?

    Year 1: Jackson throwing...Shanc sucks bag.

    Year 2: Jackson benched, Frerotte comes in and Shanc catches 42 with 7 TDs.

    Year 3: Favre throwing, Shanc catches 56 with 11 TDs.

    .....hmmm....must be the O-line's fault that first year....

    :blink:

    Caine
    In all fairness Gus was good for only 4 of those TDs and TJ for 3.

    I am pretty sure if you looked at the frequencey on a per pass basis that Shanc was more productive with TJ than Gus in 2008.

    In 2008, Gus completed 178 passes - 27 of them to Shiancoe.
    Jackson completed 88 passes - 15 of them to Shiancoe.

    Based upon completions, Gus hit him 15% of the time to Jackson's 17%...a measely 2% difference. Not really all that impressive.

    However, it's worth noting that Jackson only hit Shiancoe 4 times in the first two games. And aside from the anomaly game (Atlanta, where Jackson hit Shiancoe 7 times), Jackson averaged less than 2 receptions per game with Shiancoe.

    Gus, meanwhile, was consistently hitting Visanthe @ 2.3 times per game, deviating between 1 and 4 receptions per game.

    So, no, Jackson wasn't really the more effective passer.

    The ONLY way you can construe this as a pro-Jackson point is to claim that Jackson's TD percentage with Shiancoe was better than Frerotte's - which is true. But his overall level of suck in '08 makes that rather irrelevant.

    And, as has already been stated in other threads, if Jackson's highest level of accomplishment is to be "almost as good" in 2008 as a now retired Gus Frerotte, then he really isn't all that good.

    Caine
    The main point being Gus did not throw 7 TD passes as inferred. B)
    Funny, I thought the main point was that Shiancoe sucked his first season here...

    ...the not-so-subtle secondary point was that perhaps Jackson contributed to that sucking...

    Caine

  3. #13
    bsmithberkley is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re:Tight ends a better decade than any position group

    Caine wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Remember when most on here (Except me and my good friend Singer) thought Shanc sucked...........
    Ummmm....in year one, Shanc DID suck. 27 receptions and 1 TD...

    In year two he did much better.

    Isn't it odd how his stats might just reflect WHO was throwing him the ball?

    Year 1: Jackson throwing...Shanc sucks bag.

    Year 2: Jackson benched, Frerotte comes in and Shanc catches 42 with 7 TDs.

    Year 3: Favre throwing, Shanc catches 56 with 11 TDs.

    .....hmmm....must be the O-line's fault that first year....

    :blink:

    Caine
    In all fairness Gus was good for only 4 of those TDs and TJ for 3.

    I am pretty sure if you looked at the frequencey on a per pass basis that Shanc was more productive with TJ than Gus in 2008.

    In 2008, Gus completed 178 passes - 27 of them to Shiancoe.
    Jackson completed 88 passes - 15 of them to Shiancoe.

    Based upon completions, Gus hit him 15% of the time to Jackson's 17%...a measely 2% difference. Not really all that impressive.

    However, it's worth noting that Jackson only hit Shiancoe 4 times in the first two games. And aside from the anomaly game (Atlanta, where Jackson hit Shiancoe 7 times), Jackson averaged less than 2 receptions per game with Shiancoe.

    Gus, meanwhile, was consistently hitting Visanthe @ 2.3 times per game, deviating between 1 and 4 receptions per game.

    So, no, Jackson wasn't really the more effective passer.

    The ONLY way you can construe this as a pro-Jackson point is to claim that Jackson's TD percentage with Shiancoe was better than Frerotte's - which is true. But his overall level of suck in '08 makes that rather irrelevant.

    And, as has already been stated in other threads, if Jackson's highest level of accomplishment is to be "almost as good" in 2008 as a now retired Gus Frerotte, then he really isn't all that good.

    Caine
    The main point being Gus did not throw 7 TD passes as inferred. B)
    Funny, I thought the main point was that Shiancoe sucked his first season here...

    ...the not-so-subtle secondary point was that perhaps Jackson contributed to that sucking...

    Caine
    I was talking about the misrepresentation of TD distribution in 2008.
    None

  4. #14
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Tight ends a better decade than any position group

    bsmithberkley wrote:
    I liked the article and I think it underscores the importance of "Versatile" TEs in the NFL.

    Here is hoping that the rumblings about Shuler's pass catching abilities from OTA's and Minicamp are sustained in training camp and pre-season. He is a ridiculous sound TE/H-Back in the fundamentals and is much more powerful than given credit for. If it turns out that his pass catching skills were just "underexposed" as the blocking half of the Penn St duo with Quarles he could really be a nice surprise.
    He looks to be one of those "In Line" TE's. Blocks first, catches the ball second.

    I for one hope he can block.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #15
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Tight ends a better decade than any position group

    i_bleed_purple wrote:
    I think all here have accepted and enjoy watching Shank play well, but do you really believe he didn't suck his first year? Its pretty much common knowledge.
    Common knowledge?

    I thought it was common knowledge that he spent more time in blocking than he did running routes.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #16
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Tight ends a better decade than any position group

    Caine wrote:
    bsmithberkley wrote:
    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    Remember when most on here (Except me and my good friend Singer) thought Shanc sucked...........
    Ummmm....in year one, Shanc DID suck. 27 receptions and 1 TD...

    In year two he did much better.

    Isn't it odd how his stats might just reflect WHO was throwing him the ball?

    Year 1: Jackson throwing...Shanc sucks bag.

    Year 2: Jackson benched, Frerotte comes in and Shanc catches 42 with 7 TDs.

    Year 3: Favre throwing, Shanc catches 56 with 11 TDs.

    .....hmmm....must be the O-line's fault that first year....

    :blink:

    Caine
    In all fairness Gus was good for only 4 of those TDs and TJ for 3.

    I am pretty sure if you looked at the frequencey on a per pass basis that Shanc was more productive with TJ than Gus in 2008.

    In 2008, Gus completed 178 passes - 27 of them to Shiancoe.
    Jackson completed 88 passes - 15 of them to Shiancoe.

    Based upon completions, Gus hit him 15% of the time to Jackson's 17%...a measely 2% difference. Not really all that impressive.

    However, it's worth noting that Jackson only hit Shiancoe 4 times in the first two games. And aside from the anomaly game (Atlanta, where Jackson hit Shiancoe 7 times), Jackson averaged less than 2 receptions per game with Shiancoe.

    Gus, meanwhile, was consistently hitting Visanthe @ 2.3 times per game, deviating between 1 and 4 receptions per game.

    So, no, Jackson wasn't really the more effective passer.

    The ONLY way you can construe this as a pro-Jackson point is to claim that Jackson's TD percentage with Shiancoe was better than Frerotte's - which is true. But his overall level of suck in '08 makes that rather irrelevant.

    And, as has already been stated in other threads, if Jackson's highest level of accomplishment is to be "almost as good" in 2008 as a now retired Gus Frerotte, then he really isn't all that good.

    Caine
    LOL, one day you will come over to the TJ side my friend.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  7. #17
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re:Tight ends a better decade than any position group

    Lol. That's like saying you'll come to the Favre side.

  8. #18
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re:Tight ends a better decade than any position group


    I think I need to go get all the pics of all the TD receptions this year.

    LOL
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #19
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    Re:Tight ends a better decade than any position group

    I still see a lot of Donald Lee in Visante Shiancoe.

    You can make a lot of TEs look really good when you have a veteran QB who likes to throw it to his TE.

    Lee's 2007 numbers are nearly the same as Visante's, except for the amount of TD catches.

    Now I'm not saying that Shiancoe isn't a good TE. A lot of teams would love to have him as their starter. I do think that he's a bit overrated, though, and that his production will take a sharp decline as soon as Favre walks away.

    But at least you can blame it on his age at that point.
    "You can look pretty smart if you have a knack for planning ahead. That's Ted. The Packers are in good hands." - Ron Wolf


  10. #20
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re:Tight ends a better decade than any position group

    Umm.. you might recall Shank had a decent year last year too.

    more yards, with 7 TD's (not bad for a TE)

    Donald Lee my ass. The dude's a bum.

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