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  1. #71
    gagarr's Avatar
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    Re: Thank God we didn't draft Crabtree

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "gagarr" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "gagarr" wrote:
    [quote author=Mr Anderson link=topic=52664.msg980186#msg980186 date=1249658808]
    I think rookie pay should be totally structured, and they should be paid:
    More if they finish school.
    Based on where they are selected, decreasing with each pick.
    More for any awards received as a college player, earning the most for the Heisman.
    The rookie contract may not be negotiated until the rookie season(including playoffs) is completed.

    That would eliminate this kaka del rio, get rid of rookie holdouts, they'd know what they're gonna make the minute they're picked.
    What?
    Finishing school has little to do with a guys talent.
    I'd agree.
    They don't make you go to trade school if you're becoming a secretary.



    I think the NFL's rule about having to be 2 yrs out of HS is good enough.
    The players that stay in school are the ones that are hoping they can increase their draft position by having a better year.

    Based on where they are selected?
    That's what they are doing now for the most part.
    Again, agreed.
    College to most players, is how you get noticed.
    get your name out there.
    They should not be forced to stay, nor should they be penalized for not staying.

    Awards???
    These are Gino Torretta's awards, what is he really worth?
    He wasn't even worth a 7th round pick.
    Awards: 1992 Heisman Trophy
    1992 Davey O'Brien Award
    1992 Johnny Unitas Award
    1992 Maxwell Award
    1992 Walter Camp Award
    1992 Harley Award
    more good stuff.
    Pay based on awards is pointless.
    How many guys have won the heisman?
    out of those players, who have become well-known, successful NFL players?

    Not a whole lot.

    No negotiations until after the season?
    So how would you negotiate with a Chad Greenway, who didn't play a down?
    Is he worth squat because he got injured?
    What about a guy like Rivers, who although drafted at #4, was behind Brees, so Rivers didn't play his first 2 years.
    I think he means, no negotiations when you're drafted.

    You get paid x amount, and thats it, same for everyone.
    After that point, you can re-negotiate based on how you did and whether the team wants to keep you.
    In cases like Greenway, he'd probably do anothe ryear base salary.
    But in cases like Rivers, he'd be free to sign elsewhere that would offer him more money (which would be the bad thing about that idea)
    I think they should be encouraged in every way to stay in school all 4 years. The average NFL career is only 3 and a half seasons. Why not have a degree to fall back on?

    Awards earn more because they earned it playing college ball. College athletes get screwed out of some jobs because of NCAA restrictions on how much they can make, and what they can get paid for. Why not get them paid to play, even if it is down the road? Again, incentives to stay in school.

    And I don't mean that they can negotiate with other teams after their rookie seasons. I think they should be signed to a 3-4 year deal based on the things listed above, and they may negotiate a new contract with that team following their rookie season.
    Stay in school and earn a degree to fall back on?

    Even if they only have 1 yr in the NFL, the minimum rookie salary is $310,000.
    More than enough to finance a college education after football.
    If they can get the 3 years, the minimum take would be $1,185,000.
    For that I say "We no need a stinking degree"
    Especially, when most of their degrees would get them around $30K a year.

    Awards? How much should have Gino Tarretta earn for the Heisman? Who should pay it?
    Missing out on Jobs? The NCAA restrictions are to stop some booster paying a top player, $500/hr to wash his Corvette by taking it 500 miles to Vegas to run it through a automatic car washer.
    It's not to get $15/hr to do computer programming.

    Post rookie negotiation?
    It would be a bigger mess.
    What leverage would someone like Rodgers have?
    He was behind Favre.
    Then because of injury a guy like Flacco gets to play and does well, so he gets a pay day, because he was lucky enough to play.
    Given that system, if I was Rodgers I would have "Tonya Harding" Favre first day of camp.

    I don't think there is anything really wrong with the current system.
    I think it's kinda unfair that a rookie like Ryan and Stafford can come in and earn more than McNabb, Brees, Cutler, Rodgers, Delhomme, Pennington, etc..


    The only thing I don't like is increased player salaries gets passed on in increased ticket prices.
    I think there's no doubt it needs to change, but not a massive re-structure.
    I'd say all you need to do is put a cap on salary and signing bonuses.
    Thats it.
    No more 40 million dollar bonuses.

    [/quote]

    The reason the NFL has a salary cap is to create a competitive league.

    What is the purpose of a rookie salary cap?
    So a rookie doesn't get LOTS of money and the rich owner gets to keep the $$$.
    Do you think the owner will take that savings and decrease ticket prices?
    Think again.

    If the owners don't want to pay the huge rookie contracts they can JUST STOP!
    I'm not sure, but I think the only thing the CBA says on a rookies salary is it has to be at least the minimum, $310,000.
    After that it's up to the owners.
    I imagine a rookie salary cap would have to be part of the new CBA.
    Upshaw hated the idea because a rookie QB getting a 5yr $50mill contract means a good vet QB can ask for more.
    Otherwise if the rookie was capped and could only get a 5yr $20mill, then a vet already making $20, won't have much leverage other than to compare themselves to other vets and their contracts.

    I think the only way the NFLPA would agree to a rookie cap is if the owners were required to distribute all cap space $$$ to the players as a bonus.
    Thus, Tampa currently has $46mill in cap space, they would have to distribute it to the players.
    Thus, the saving on a rookie contract wouldn't save the owners a penny and would benefit the players.
    [size=12pt]
    Page 148.5 **Doleman 150.5 **Randle 137.5 **Allen 73+
    [/size]

  2. #72
    Caine's Avatar
    Caine is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Thank God we didn't draft Crabtree

    "gagarr" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "gagarr" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    [quote author=gagarr link=topic=52664.msg980365#msg980365 date=1249679441]
    [quote author=Mr Anderson link=topic=52664.msg980186#msg980186 date=1249658808]
    I think rookie pay should be totally structured, and they should be paid:
    More if they finish school.
    Based on where they are selected, decreasing with each pick.
    More for any awards received as a college player, earning the most for the Heisman.
    The rookie contract may not be negotiated until the rookie season(including playoffs) is completed.

    That would eliminate this kaka del rio, get rid of rookie holdouts, they'd know what they're gonna make the minute they're picked.
    What?
    Finishing school has little to do with a guys talent.
    I'd agree.
    They don't make you go to trade school if you're becoming a secretary.



    I think the NFL's rule about having to be 2 yrs out of HS is good enough.
    The players that stay in school are the ones that are hoping they can increase their draft position by having a better year.

    Based on where they are selected?
    That's what they are doing now for the most part.
    Again, agreed.
    College to most players, is how you get noticed.
    get your name out there.
    They should not be forced to stay, nor should they be penalized for not staying.

    Awards???
    These are Gino Torretta's awards, what is he really worth?
    He wasn't even worth a 7th round pick.
    Awards: 1992 Heisman Trophy
    1992 Davey O'Brien Award
    1992 Johnny Unitas Award
    1992 Maxwell Award
    1992 Walter Camp Award
    1992 Harley Award
    more good stuff.
    Pay based on awards is pointless.
    How many guys have won the heisman?
    out of those players, who have become well-known, successful NFL players?

    Not a whole lot.

    No negotiations until after the season?
    So how would you negotiate with a Chad Greenway, who didn't play a down?
    Is he worth squat because he got injured?
    What about a guy like Rivers, who although drafted at #4, was behind Brees, so Rivers didn't play his first 2 years.
    I think he means, no negotiations when you're drafted.

    You get paid x amount, and thats it, same for everyone.
    After that point, you can re-negotiate based on how you did and whether the team wants to keep you.
    In cases like Greenway, he'd probably do anothe ryear base salary.
    But in cases like Rivers, he'd be free to sign elsewhere that would offer him more money (which would be the bad thing about that idea)
    I think they should be encouraged in every way to stay in school all 4 years. The average NFL career is only 3 and a half seasons. Why not have a degree to fall back on?

    Awards earn more because they earned it playing college ball. College athletes get screwed out of some jobs because of NCAA restrictions on how much they can make, and what they can get paid for. Why not get them paid to play, even if it is down the road? Again, incentives to stay in school.

    And I don't mean that they can negotiate with other teams after their rookie seasons. I think they should be signed to a 3-4 year deal based on the things listed above, and they may negotiate a new contract with that team following their rookie season.
    Stay in school and earn a degree to fall back on?

    Even if they only have 1 yr in the NFL, the minimum rookie salary is $310,000.
    More than enough to finance a college education after football.
    If they can get the 3 years, the minimum take would be $1,185,000.
    For that I say "We no need a stinking degree"
    Especially, when most of their degrees would get them around $30K a year.

    Awards? How much should have Gino Tarretta earn for the Heisman? Who should pay it?
    Missing out on Jobs? The NCAA restrictions are to stop some booster paying a top player, $500/hr to wash his Corvette by taking it 500 miles to Vegas to run it through a automatic car washer.
    It's not to get $15/hr to do computer programming.

    Post rookie negotiation?
    It would be a bigger mess.
    What leverage would someone like Rodgers have?
    He was behind Favre.
    Then because of injury a guy like Flacco gets to play and does well, so he gets a pay day, because he was lucky enough to play.
    Given that system, if I was Rodgers I would have "Tonya Harding" Favre first day of camp.

    I don't think there is anything really wrong with the current system.
    I think it's kinda unfair that a rookie like Ryan and Stafford can come in and earn more than McNabb, Brees, Cutler, Rodgers, Delhomme, Pennington, etc..


    The only thing I don't like is increased player salaries gets passed on in increased ticket prices.
    I think there's no doubt it needs to change, but not a massive re-structure.
    I'd say all you need to do is put a cap on salary and signing bonuses.
    Thats it.
    No more 40 million dollar bonuses.

    [/quote]

    The reason the NFL has a salary cap is to create a competitive league.

    What is the purpose of a rookie salary cap?
    So a rookie doesn't get LOTS of money and the rich owner gets to keep the $$$.
    Do you think the owner will take that savings and decrease ticket prices?
    Think again.

    If the owners don't want to pay the huge rookie contracts they can JUST STOP!
    I'm not sure, but I think the only thing the CBA says on a rookies salary is it has to be at least the minimum, $310,000.
    After that it's up to the owners.
    I imagine a rookie salary cap would have to be part of the new CBA.
    Upshaw hated the idea because a rookie QB getting a 5yr $50mill contract means a good vet QB can ask for more.
    Otherwise if the rookie was capped and could only get a 5yr $20mill, then a vet already making $20, won't have much leverage other than to compare themselves to other vets and their contracts.

    I think the only way the NFLPA would agree to a rookie cap is if the owners were required to distribute all cap space $$$ to the players as a bonus.
    Thus, Tampa currently has $46mill in cap space, they would have to distribute it to the players.
    Thus, the saving on a rookie contract wouldn't save the owners a penny and would benefit the players.
    [/quote]

    Look, I think we all agree - for the most part - that rookie salaries are out of line.
    Every year we get the news that the guaranteed money cap has been pushed another step by yet another player who hasn't proven a thing.
    Here's a list of the #1 draftees since 1980:"

    2008 Jake Long - 1 Pro Bowl
    2007 JaMarcus Russell QB - 0 Pro Bowls
    2006 Mario Williams DE
    -
    1
    Pro Bowl
    2005 Alex Smith QB - 0 Pro Bowls
    2004 Eli Manning QB - 1
    Pro Bowl
    2003 Carson Palmer QB - 2 Pro Bowls

    2002 David Carr QB - 0 Pro Bowls

    2001 Michael Vick QB - 3
    Pro Bowls
    2000 Courtney Brown DE - 0 Pro Bowls
    1999 Tim Couch QB - 0 Pro Bowls
    1998 Peyton Manning QB - 9 Pro Bowls
    1997 Orlando Pace OT - 7 Pro Bowls
    1996 Keyshawn Johnson WR - 4 Pro Bowls
    1995 Ki-Jana Carter RB - 0 Pro Bowls
    1994 Dan Wilkinson DT - 0 Pro Bowls
    1993 Drew Bledsoe QB - 4 Pro Bowls
    1992 Steve Emtman DT - 0 Pro Bowls
    1991 Russell Maryland DT - 1 Pro Bowl
    1990 Jeff George QB - 0 Pro Bowls
    1989 *Troy Aikman QB - 6 Pro Bowls
    1988 Aundray Bruce LB - 0 Pro Bowls
    1987 Vinny Testaverde QB - 2 Pro Bowls
    1986 Bo Jackson RB - 1 Pro Bowl

    1985 Bruce Smith DE - 11 Pro Bowls
    1984 Irving Fryar WR - 5 Pro Bowls
    1983 *John Elway QB - 10 Pro Bowls
    1982 Kenneth Sims DT - 0 Pro Bowls
    1981 George Rogers RB - 2 Pro Bowls
    1980 Bill Sims RB - 3 Pro Bowls

    Sure, once in awhile you get a John Elway, or a Bruce Smith...but how many more times is it Tim Couch or Steve Emtman?

    In my opinion, it really is a slap in the face of every proven Vet when "Joe College" walks in to his very first training camp worth more money already than that Vet has made over his career...especially when teh Rook tanks.

    And it isn't like they have to pay back that money if they bomb.

    Will the NFL cap the Rookie contracts?
    I doubt it.
    Will the owners "grow a set" and reduce them?
    Nope, because the NFLPA will sue them for bargaining in bad faith after breaking past precedent.
    Will we be treated to this debate year after year?
    Yup.

    It's just another stupid reality that no one with the POWER to change has the BALLS to change.
    Too bad I'm not the Commisioner.

    Caine

  3. #73
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Thank God we didn't draft Crabtree

    "gagarr" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "gagarr" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    [quote author=gagarr link=topic=52664.msg980365#msg980365 date=1249679441]
    [quote author=Mr Anderson link=topic=52664.msg980186#msg980186 date=1249658808]
    I think rookie pay should be totally structured, and they should be paid:
    More if they finish school.
    Based on where they are selected, decreasing with each pick.
    More for any awards received as a college player, earning the most for the Heisman.
    The rookie contract may not be negotiated until the rookie season(including playoffs) is completed.

    That would eliminate this kaka del rio, get rid of rookie holdouts, they'd know what they're gonna make the minute they're picked.
    What?
    Finishing school has little to do with a guys talent.
    I'd agree.
    They don't make you go to trade school if you're becoming a secretary.



    I think the NFL's rule about having to be 2 yrs out of HS is good enough.
    The players that stay in school are the ones that are hoping they can increase their draft position by having a better year.

    Based on where they are selected?
    That's what they are doing now for the most part.
    Again, agreed.
    College to most players, is how you get noticed.
    get your name out there.
    They should not be forced to stay, nor should they be penalized for not staying.

    Awards???
    These are Gino Torretta's awards, what is he really worth?
    He wasn't even worth a 7th round pick.
    Awards: 1992 Heisman Trophy
    1992 Davey O'Brien Award
    1992 Johnny Unitas Award
    1992 Maxwell Award
    1992 Walter Camp Award
    1992 Harley Award
    more good stuff.
    Pay based on awards is pointless.
    How many guys have won the heisman?
    out of those players, who have become well-known, successful NFL players?

    Not a whole lot.

    No negotiations until after the season?
    So how would you negotiate with a Chad Greenway, who didn't play a down?
    Is he worth squat because he got injured?
    What about a guy like Rivers, who although drafted at #4, was behind Brees, so Rivers didn't play his first 2 years.
    I think he means, no negotiations when you're drafted.

    You get paid x amount, and thats it, same for everyone.
    After that point, you can re-negotiate based on how you did and whether the team wants to keep you.
    In cases like Greenway, he'd probably do anothe ryear base salary.
    But in cases like Rivers, he'd be free to sign elsewhere that would offer him more money (which would be the bad thing about that idea)
    I think they should be encouraged in every way to stay in school all 4 years. The average NFL career is only 3 and a half seasons. Why not have a degree to fall back on?

    Awards earn more because they earned it playing college ball. College athletes get screwed out of some jobs because of NCAA restrictions on how much they can make, and what they can get paid for. Why not get them paid to play, even if it is down the road? Again, incentives to stay in school.

    And I don't mean that they can negotiate with other teams after their rookie seasons. I think they should be signed to a 3-4 year deal based on the things listed above, and they may negotiate a new contract with that team following their rookie season.
    Stay in school and earn a degree to fall back on?

    Even if they only have 1 yr in the NFL, the minimum rookie salary is $310,000.
    More than enough to finance a college education after football.
    If they can get the 3 years, the minimum take would be $1,185,000.
    For that I say "We no need a stinking degree"
    Especially, when most of their degrees would get them around $30K a year.

    Awards? How much should have Gino Tarretta earn for the Heisman? Who should pay it?
    Missing out on Jobs? The NCAA restrictions are to stop some booster paying a top player, $500/hr to wash his Corvette by taking it 500 miles to Vegas to run it through a automatic car washer.
    It's not to get $15/hr to do computer programming.

    Post rookie negotiation?
    It would be a bigger mess.
    What leverage would someone like Rodgers have?
    He was behind Favre.
    Then because of injury a guy like Flacco gets to play and does well, so he gets a pay day, because he was lucky enough to play.
    Given that system, if I was Rodgers I would have "Tonya Harding" Favre first day of camp.

    I don't think there is anything really wrong with the current system.
    I think it's kinda unfair that a rookie like Ryan and Stafford can come in and earn more than McNabb, Brees, Cutler, Rodgers, Delhomme, Pennington, etc..


    The only thing I don't like is increased player salaries gets passed on in increased ticket prices.
    I think there's no doubt it needs to change, but not a massive re-structure.
    I'd say all you need to do is put a cap on salary and signing bonuses.
    Thats it.
    No more 40 million dollar bonuses.

    [/quote]

    The reason the NFL has a salary cap is to create a competitive league.

    What is the purpose of a rookie salary cap?
    So a rookie doesn't get LOTS of money and the rich owner gets to keep the $$$.
    Do you think the owner will take that savings and decrease ticket prices?
    Think again.[/quote]Why would they do that?
    The point of this is to save cap space, not save the owner some cash.
    If instead of paying a $40 mil signing bonus, they gave a $10 mil, that gives them a nice little cap cushion that they can use to sign some impact players.
    Teams that pick first overall, lots of the time don't have lots of cap space, and can't afford to go out and sign those impact players.

    If the owners don't want to pay the huge rookie contracts they can JUST STOP!
    No, they can't.
    If Harvin said "I want 25 mil bonus" and Wilf flat out refused, harvin could find another team thats willing to pay him.
    For every owner that won'g pay up, there's 3 that will.


    I think the only way the NFLPA would agree to a rookie cap is if the owners were required to distribute all cap space $$$ to the players as a bonus.
    What good will that do?
    Tie up all remaining cap space so you can't make any mid-season aquisitions?
    Can't re-work contracts?
    That really screws teams over.

    Thus, Tampa currently has $46mill in cap space, they would have to distribute it to the players.
    Thus, the saving on a rookie contract wouldn't save the owners a penny and would benefit the players.
    Again, the point isn't to save the owners cash, its to save cap space.

  4. #74
    BloodyHorns82's Avatar
    BloodyHorns82 is offline Jersey Retired Feed The Frog Champion
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    Re: Thank God we didn't draft Crabtree

    So did this bum sign yet?

  5. #75
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Thank God we didn't draft Crabtree

    "BloodyHorns82" wrote:
    So did this bum sign yet?
    NOpe what a deusche bag... sign your millions dollar contract and go play... crying like a baby over a few million bc he thinks he's better than some other guy... get over it.. i doubt he signs anytime soon!

  6. #76
    vikinggreg's Avatar
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    Re: Thank God we didn't draft Crabtree

    [size=10pt]Deion wades into the Crabtree fiasco[/size]

    Posted by Mike Florio on September 4, 2009 11:00 PM ET

    Sanders also said that two teams contacted the 49ers regarding a trade for Crabtree, that the teams were willing to pay Crabtree, and that Crabtree knows it.
    Though Sanders didn't say so directly, he implied that the other teams were willing to pay Crabtree a contract worth $40 million.
    (And if the player became aware of the intended offers via communications with the interested teams, the 49ers should be filing tampering charges.)
    After watching the link to the NFL video clip of Deion, and Deion having ties to Crabtree's agent....is he one of the people give Crabtree advice?
    It kinda sounds like it but I have a hard time following what Deion says sometimes......I think he may have gone to some Jesse Jackson speech seminars.

  7. #77
    vikinggreg's Avatar
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    Re: Thank God we didn't draft Crabtree

    [size=10pt]Niners should insist on tampering investigation[/size]

    Posted by Mike Florio on September 6, 2009 10:50 AM ET

    So the approach here is simple.
    The 49ers should demand that Commissioner Roger Goodell demand that Deion spill his guts about the teams that supposedly were willing to do a trade-and-pay deal for Crabtree.
    If Deion declines, then Deion moves on to the pursuit of other interests.

    The Niners also should express concern to the league regarding whether a business relationship exists between Sanders and Parker.
    Though there's presently no evidence that they are anything other than agent and former client, the NFL should want to know whether Deion was merely expressing his views when he talked about the Crabtree situation on Total Access, or whether Deion was carrying water for Parker and, in turn, for Crabtree.
    Deion spilling his guts?
    That could be interesting to hear but understanding what he's talking about....could be a different story.

  8. #78
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    Re: Thank God we didn't draft Crabtree

    What a little sissy pants. Seriously take the money play the game and show the world what a superhero you really are. Then...when you have proven your worth, sign your 1.2 trillion dollar deal with the team that is willing to pay it for a superhuman receiver(who is yet to prove anything in the NFL). What happened to the love of the game/the days when you could hit the QB/play without heated socks/hot chocolate and cookies on the sidelines...etc. :-[
    I bet you could use a cool one huh Clark...Now you're talkin Eddie...

  9. #79
    whackthepack is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Thank God we didn't draft Crabtree

    Need a rookie pay structure in the next CBA.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

  10. #80
    Johnson14's Avatar
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    Re: Thank God we didn't draft Crabtree

    This douche still holding out?!..

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