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  1. #31
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    Re: Tebow to #3 behind Quinn on the Depth Charts?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1104073
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1104069
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1104061
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1104022
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1103982
    Look, my stance has been that he shined in 09 and sucked in 10. Most say it was cause he carried the WR's in 09 so then I retort with why couldn't he do it in 10? If he carried the recievers in 09 he should have been able to do that again in 10.
    He probably would have except that his body was IMHO still not ready to go at the beginning of the season and the pummeling he took as the season went on prevented him from getting any better.

    This is pretty well supported by looking at how Jackson did when he came in and took over for Brett. After all he had ( Check with JMCDon) a crap ton of yards and touchdowns in a few select games in 2008 so he clearly should have been able to duplicate those numbers too. Instead he got beat to a pulp and ended up on IR. Webb took a beating too.
    I'm pretty sure when he took over for Brett when he got knocked the fuck out of the Bills game, Jackson came in & we won it.

    He didn't get injured until the following week.


    BTW, behind our front line in the past 5 years

    Johnson got injured

    TJ got injured

    Bollinger got injured

    Frerotte got injured

    Favre got injured

    Webb got injured

    Starting to see a pattern here? At some point, people need to realize, "Hey! Perhaps it's not simply the QB, perhaps the front line has something to do with it".

    Ya think????
    I see a pattern, its called the WCO. Ever watch other teams that run it? They get knocked down alot.

    I like the story Marshall Faulk told about Warner and how Green got hurt and watching Warner stand in there like that.

    In the end, the offense doesn't run right if the QB doesn't stand in there.
    It seems to me GB runs the WCO as does Indy and NE. Apart from Brady losing time due to his knee injury how many combined games have their QB's missed due to injury in say the past decade? My guess is less than the Vikings had in just last year.
    And what happened to Rodgers last year. He went down and almost cost them their run at the SB.

    I don't think I know what Peyton runs in Indy. I suppose you could call it a WCO but he is smart enough to get rid of the ball quickly as does Brady.

    The cats that want to stand in there and hold the ball for long stems (i.e. the greatest show on turf) will get hit. It happens. Again, they lost their starter that year (Green) and only cause Warner was a tough SOB did he make it through.
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  2. #32
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Tebow to #3 behind Quinn on the Depth Charts?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1104079
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1104073
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1104069
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1104061
    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1104022
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1103982
    Look, my stance has been that he shined in 09 and sucked in 10. Most say it was cause he carried the WR's in 09 so then I retort with why couldn't he do it in 10? If he carried the recievers in 09 he should have been able to do that again in 10.
    He probably would have except that his body was IMHO still not ready to go at the beginning of the season and the pummeling he took as the season went on prevented him from getting any better.

    This is pretty well supported by looking at how Jackson did when he came in and took over for Brett. After all he had ( Check with JMCDon) a crap ton of yards and touchdowns in a few select games in 2008 so he clearly should have been able to duplicate those numbers too. Instead he got beat to a pulp and ended up on IR. Webb took a beating too.
    I'm pretty sure when he took over for Brett when he got knocked the fuck out of the Bills game, Jackson came in & we won it.

    He didn't get injured until the following week.


    BTW, behind our front line in the past 5 years

    Johnson got injured

    TJ got injured

    Bollinger got injured

    Frerotte got injured

    Favre got injured

    Webb got injured

    Starting to see a pattern here? At some point, people need to realize, "Hey! Perhaps it's not simply the QB, perhaps the front line has something to do with it".

    Ya think????
    I see a pattern, its called the WCO. Ever watch other teams that run it? They get knocked down alot.

    I like the story Marshall Faulk told about Warner and how Green got hurt and watching Warner stand in there like that.

    In the end, the offense doesn't run right if the QB doesn't stand in there.
    It seems to me GB runs the WCO as does Indy and NE. Apart from Brady losing time due to his knee injury how many combined games have their QB's missed due to injury in say the past decade? My guess is less than the Vikings had in just last year.
    And what happened to Rodgers last year. He went down and almost cost them their run at the SB.
    You might recall Rodgers got hurt running, not standing in the pocket makign a pass, so try again

    I don't think I know what Peyton runs in Indy. I suppose you could call it a WCO but he is smart enough to get rid of the ball quickly as does Brady.
    Or.. you know they get the protection they need

  3. #33
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    Re: Tebow to #3 behind Quinn on the Depth Charts?

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1104081
    You might recall Rodgers got hurt running, not standing in the pocket makign a pass, so try again

    Or.. you know they get the protection they need
    Are you saying that the OL in PUKERville is sound?

    Hell two years ago thats all they talked about was how bad it was and now its great after only adding one rook. Same goes for the Colts. You know why Peyton isn't practicing? His neck is one thing, but the OL is really the issue.

    By the way, no one said anything about were Rodgers was hit. Another part of the WCO is to roll out/move around unless of course your to fricken old to do it. :P
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  4. #34
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    Re: Tebow to #3 behind Quinn on the Depth Charts?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1104085
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1104081
    You might recall Rodgers got hurt running, not standing in the pocket makign a pass, so try again

    Or.. you know they get the protection they need
    Are you saying that the OL in PUKERville is sound?

    Hell two years ago thats all they talked about was how bad it was and now its great after only adding one rook. Same goes for the Colts. You know why Peyton isn't practicing? His neck is one thing, but the OL is really the issue.
    Not what I was saying (but yes, they have gotten much better than they were in 09). When you go off listing QB's that run the WCO who got hurt, make sure they at least support the point you're trying to make. Rodgers did not get hurt standing in the pocket, he got hurt rushing downfield
    By the way, no one said anything about were Rodgers was hit. Another part of the WCO is to roll out/move around unless of course your to fricken old to do it. :P
    yeah, and another part of the WCO is not to take on LB's/S's head on if you're a QB. Sliding is your friend.

  5. #35
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    Re: Tebow to #3 behind Quinn on the Depth Charts?

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1104086
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1104085
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1104081
    You might recall Rodgers got hurt running, not standing in the pocket makign a pass, so try again

    Or.. you know they get the protection they need
    Are you saying that the OL in PUKERville is sound?

    Hell two years ago thats all they talked about was how bad it was and now its great after only adding one rook. Same goes for the Colts. You know why Peyton isn't practicing? His neck is one thing, but the OL is really the issue.
    Not what I was saying (but yes, they have gotten much better than they were in 09). When you go off listing QB's that run the WCO who got hurt, make sure they at least support the point you're trying to make. Rodgers did not get hurt standing in the pocket, he got hurt rushing downfield
    By the way, no one said anything about were Rodgers was hit. Another part of the WCO is to roll out/move around unless of course your to fricken old to do it. :P
    yeah, and another part of the WCO is not to take on LB's/S's head on if you're a QB. Sliding is your friend.
    And the fact that he was running for his life has nothing to do with anything. LOL

    How about you trying to atleast understand the point I am trying to make once. :P

    And if you get rid of the ball quickly (staple of variations we used to run pre Noodle) you don't have to take on LB'rs and S's. You get rid of the ball right away and you don't get hit.

    Again, unless of course your an old man trying to pad your stats.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Tebow to #3 behind Quinn on the Depth Charts?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1104089
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1104086
    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1104085
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1104081
    You might recall Rodgers got hurt running, not standing in the pocket makign a pass, so try again

    Or.. you know they get the protection they need
    Are you saying that the OL in PUKERville is sound?

    Hell two years ago thats all they talked about was how bad it was and now its great after only adding one rook. Same goes for the Colts. You know why Peyton isn't practicing? His neck is one thing, but the OL is really the issue.
    Not what I was saying (but yes, they have gotten much better than they were in 09). When you go off listing QB's that run the WCO who got hurt, make sure they at least support the point you're trying to make. Rodgers did not get hurt standing in the pocket, he got hurt rushing downfield
    By the way, no one said anything about were Rodgers was hit. Another part of the WCO is to roll out/move around unless of course your to fricken old to do it. :P
    yeah, and another part of the WCO is not to take on LB's/S's head on if you're a QB. Sliding is your friend.
    And the fact that he was running for his life has nothing to do with anything. LOL
    So anytime a QB runs for yards means he's "Running for his life?" Ok there.

    How about you trying to atleast understand the point I am trying to make once. :P

    And if you get rid of the ball quickly (staple of variations we used to run pre Noodle) you don't have to take on LB'rs and S's. You get rid of the ball right away and you don't get hit.
    Sure, or, you know, if you can use your feet as a weapon, and your first couple receivers are not open, you can run (seems to be a common trend in the NFL). Despite what you seem to believe, QB's don't hold onto the ball just because they like to.

    Do you really believe a QB sits there saying "well, 5 yard dumpoff is open, but I'm gonna wait it out for my guy 40 yards downfield" all while a DE is barreling down on him? No. If they call a play with short and long routes, and the short is a primary receiver, they try and go to the shorts, if covered, then they go through their progressions.

    But of course, you'd rather believe a QB stands there just for the sake of standing there and getting hit to support Marrdro's theory.

    Quick question, I thought you were saying before the pocket passer is a dying breed because they're getting hit so much. Now you're saying guys like Rodgers are getting hit so much because they move around and "Run for their life"? Which is it?

  7. #37
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    Re: Tebow to #3 behind Quinn on the Depth Charts?

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1104091
    Do you really believe a QB sits there saying "well, 5 yard dumpoff is open, but I'm gonna wait it out for my guy 40 yards downfield" all while a DE is barreling down on him? No. If they call a play with short and long routes, and the short is a primary receiver, they try and go to the shorts, if covered, then they go through their progressions.

    But of course, you'd rather believe a QB stands there just for the sake of standing there and getting hit to support Marrdro's theory.

    Quick question, I thought you were saying before the pocket passer is a dying breed because they're getting hit so much. Now you're saying guys like Rodgers are getting hit so much because they move around and "Run for their life"? Which is it?
    Two answers........

    1. In the WCO variant we run the short read is the first read and in almost all instances a 3 step drop is the chosen drop, 5 step follows with very few 7 step drops.

    With multiple TE sets, and alot of dumpoffs to RB's, that will hold true for this year. Not Marrdro's theory, right out of Walsh's book.

    2. I never said Rodgers was getting hurt cause he runs. Show me one place were I said that. Again, you take what I said and completely misunderstand it and then come up with some wild theory that I somehow dreamed up.

    What I said was "A WCO QB gets hit more because of the scheme" and related a couple of storys/events that supported that. Nothing more, nothing less.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Tebow to #3 behind Quinn on the Depth Charts?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1104093
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1104091
    Do you really believe a QB sits there saying "well, 5 yard dumpoff is open, but I'm gonna wait it out for my guy 40 yards downfield" all while a DE is barreling down on him? No. If they call a play with short and long routes, and the short is a primary receiver, they try and go to the shorts, if covered, then they go through their progressions.

    But of course, you'd rather believe a QB stands there just for the sake of standing there and getting hit to support Marrdro's theory.

    Quick question, I thought you were saying before the pocket passer is a dying breed because they're getting hit so much. Now you're saying guys like Rodgers are getting hit so much because they move around and "Run for their life"? Which is it?
    Two answers........

    1. In the WCO variant we run the short read is the first read and in almost all instances a 3 step drop is the chosen drop, 5 step follows with very few 7 step drops.

    With multiple TE sets, and alot of dumpoffs to RB's, that will hold true for this year. Not Marrdro's theory, right out of Walsh's book.
    soo... that is different than what I was saying in what way? Short is often our first read, progressing deeper as the play develops.

    Again, they won't often call a deep route as a primary receiver unless they a) need the yards or b) are trying to catch the D off guard. In order to cash in, the deep guy needs to be open, and make the catch. If he's covered, that's where the dumpoffs come in handy.
    2. I never said Rodgers was getting hurt cause he runs. Show me one place were I said that. Again, you take what I said and completely misunderstand it and then come up with some wild theory that I somehow dreamed up.
    You pointed to Rogers getting hurt because he runs the WCO, Rodgers wasn't hurt int he pocket or behind the LOS, he was running for positive yards, a characteristic of playing football, not the WCO. QB's with speed in any scheme take off, it's not just a WCO thing.

    What I said was "A WCO QB gets hit more because of the scheme" and related a couple of storys/events that supported that. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Relating Rodgers to it, which isn't the case. Yes, he runs the WCO. was he hurt executing a play unique to the WCO? No.

  9. #39
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    Re: Tebow to #3 behind Quinn on the Depth Charts?

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1104094
    soo... that is different than what I was saying in what way? Short is often our first read, progressing deeper as the play develops.

    Again, they won't often call a deep route as a primary receiver unless they a) need the yards or b) are trying to catch the D off guard. In order to cash in, the deep guy needs to be open, and make the catch. If he's covered, that's where the dumpoffs come in handy.

    You pointed to Rogers getting hurt because he runs the WCO, Rodgers wasn't hurt int he pocket or behind the LOS, he was running for positive yards, a characteristic of playing football, not the WCO. QB's with speed in any scheme take off, it's not just a WCO thing.

    Relating Rodgers to it, which isn't the case. Yes, he runs the WCO. was he hurt executing a play unique to the WCO? No.
    Assumption is they a) have a deep route called which isn't always the case and b)a deep router reciever is on the field. Again, this isn't always the case.

    I think if you watch this year, you will see alot of times were they have 2 TE's along with a Z and a Y with no deep route run at all.

    As to Rodgers, go back, watch the tape.
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  10. #40
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    Re: Tebow to #3 behind Quinn on the Depth Charts?

    Quote Originally Posted by "Marrdro" #1104096
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1104094
    soo... that is different than what I was saying in what way? Short is often our first read, progressing deeper as the play develops.

    Again, they won't often call a deep route as a primary receiver unless they a) need the yards or b) are trying to catch the D off guard. In order to cash in, the deep guy needs to be open, and make the catch. If he's covered, that's where the dumpoffs come in handy.

    You pointed to Rogers getting hurt because he runs the WCO, Rodgers wasn't hurt int he pocket or behind the LOS, he was running for positive yards, a characteristic of playing football, not the WCO. QB's with speed in any scheme take off, it's not just a WCO thing.

    Relating Rodgers to it, which isn't the case. Yes, he runs the WCO. was he hurt executing a play unique to the WCO? No.
    Assumption is they a) have a deep route called which isn't always the case and b)a deep router reciever is on the field. Again, this isn't always the case.
    You know what happens when you assume right?
    I think if you watch this year, you will see alot of times were they have 2 TE's along with a Z and a Y with no deep route run at all.

    As to Rodgers, go back, watch the tape.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Y6t8KG8Aw

    he's 18 yards downfield, and once he avoided the first rusher, he had room to throw. He chose to run. Not going to fault him for that, as it got a big gain, but I'd hardly call it running for his life.

    hell, looks alot similar to the protection on this particular play:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-gY3OrHFPg

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