09-07-2012, 02:48 PM #121
I'm not saying Jackson is a good QB or bad QB... I'm saying he played better than Ponder when you compare their first years as starts, yet Jackson had much more venom thrown at him on PPO than Ponder has.... it's not even close. You can try to make this into a Jackson argument (yet again...) but I'm simply trying to point out the hypocrisy of some on these boards. The focus is the hypocrites... not Jackson.
After you read this, don't immediately respond. Give it some time to sink it. You'll get it eventually.Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.
09-07-2012, 02:58 PM #122
1: Jackson didn't get beat up on as badly as Singer makes it out. Not in year 2. Not until the carousel of terrible QB's began and there was NO APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE between any of them. The following year, he failed to outplay Gus Frerotte. But those of us who were clamoring for change - those of us who were clearly stating our opposition to continuing the Jackson project - we were all labeled "haters"...despite being RIGHT.
2: Again, it isn't just the stats. It's the WAY they play. Do I think Ponder is the answer? Not sure. Did I think Jackson was the answer after the same number of starts? No. What's different? their STYLE of play.
It isn't hypocrisy. It's different players under different circumstances being judge on their INDIVIDUAL playing style. The fact that you and Singer choose to ignore that and focus ONLY on stats doesn't alter the validity of it. Simply put, stats aren't the whole story. They NEVER are. If they were, than Jackson '09 would have been a lock as a starter with his garbage-time stats.
And MY response was that virtually every HC in the NFL agrees with us that Jackson simply isn't a very good QB.
take a moment....you'll get there....
09-07-2012, 03:06 PM #123
09-07-2012, 03:53 PM #124
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09-08-2012, 03:12 AM #125
I like you Caine. Didn't mean anything towards you personally, despite originally quoting your comment. Just sharing an observation. The condescension in my posts is similar to how I talk to my friends when we're shooting the sh*t over a beer.
But look who I'm talking to. You already know how to deal with me.
Last edited by C Mac D; 09-08-2012 at 03:16 AM.Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.
09-08-2012, 09:16 AM #126
If anything, Jackson got beat up worse. Go ahead & ask Webby how many Jackson bashing threads were deleted just this year.
Plenty of them were started in 2007 starting with game 1, not including those started in 2006 after we lost to GB.
There were threads started & or posts made bashing him....
...after his first INT. How many threads were started bashing Ponder for any of his 13 INT's?
...for his accuracy because it was less than the apparently acceptable 60%. How many threads were started/posts made bashing Ponder for any of his 7 performances of under 60%?
...for a bad throw that was off target. How many threads were started bashing Ponder for any of his off target throws?
...for being injury prone. How many threads were started bashing Ponder after he got knocked out of his second game?
...for sliding head first instead of feet first? How many threads/posts were started bashing Ponder after he repeatedly slid head first?
...for inconsistency. Remember the graphs that were made showing Jackson's inconsistency? How many threads were started/posts made bashing Ponder for his inconsistency?
...for not having a games with over 300 passing yards. How many threads were started/posts made bashing Ponder for not having a 300 yd game prior to his first one?
...for his eyes.
...for fumbling a snap. How many threads were started/posts made bashing Ponder when he fumbled a snap?
...for a jump pass. I'm not sure if Ponder threw one, but if he did, there wasn't a thread started bashing him for it.
This may refresh your memory now. There were others, as well as repeats to the ones above.
They most certainly started in year 2. There were others started in year 1. And no, the bashing didn't start only after a carousel of QB's played. They started before any other QB took the field. As CmacD is referring to, nothing even remotely close took place with as much venom towards Ponder as there was against Jackson so early in their careers.
In fact, only 1 other QB played prior to the infamous, "Anyone tired of the TJ project" & that was Kelly Holcomb who played 2 games while Jackson was injured.
Anyone else tired of the TJ project?
That thread didn't get started after the 2007 season, nor did it get started after the carousel of terrible QB's began, in fact it was started after Jackson had started 4 games that year.
After the year was said & done, Jackson was 8-4 & the carousel of other QB's that was Holcomb & Bollinger (some carousel) were 0-4. In those latter 4 losses, the offense never mustered more than 1 TD & never scored more than 16 points.
That's a difference there, whether you choose to agree or not.
Apparently, AD & the defense must have only showed up when Jackson played.
There were several people clamoring for change after those 4 games, some even prior to that.
Sure, they ended up being right, but that was only proven out later after he started several more games. That guess could be made on most of the QB's coming out of college. Only a few pan out. As history has shown, you can't accurately judge a QB based on a few games. Those who feel they can would have dumped a lot a good QB's.
Hell, many of those who claim they can, can't do the same with Ponder, even after they seen him play in 11 games. They want to see 16 more.
And that's where they & I agree. Unless the QB's a total basket case, you need to give him ample time behind center. IMO, 12 games behind center is & was not enough. He was up & down just like Ponder is. Jury is still out. Do you believe if we lose the first two games of the season we should bench Ponder? I'll bet most here say no, but that's what we did in 2008.
We should have, like I said back then, stick with Jackson win or loose all season long & then decide what to do with him at years end. Had we done that, rather then bench him, we would have been done with the TJ project in 2008, rather than keeping him on the roster 2 additional years & been two years into rebuilding a team with younger talent the way it should have been done. Slowly bring them in amongst a veteran team & slowly weed out the older player, rather than come in two years later, cut almost all the older veteran players & throw in a hodge-podge of no name FA players and see who sticks.
Even if Ponder goes 0-6, we still need to keep him in their playing to see how he will pan out by years end. Knee-jerking QB's in & out of games provides no benefit to the QB's.
"If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"
09-09-2012, 11:17 AM #127
09-09-2012, 12:05 PM #128
But I'm calling BS on the '06 bashing. No one bashing him his rookie year would have been taken seriously.
Now, be careful about differentiating between "criticism" and "BASHING". I "CRITICIZED" Jackson early and often - and was RIGHT. I have CRITICIZED Ponder too.
...sort of like how McNabb got beat up for the same thing.
Ponder doesn't have those same issues, therefore he doesn't get beat up for it.
Yup...completely undeserved criticism there. I apologize to Tarvaris and all the Apologists for picking on him about that....
FYI, POnder got HIS first 300+ yard game in game 7. Four YEARS earlier than Jackson did...
Ponder...not the case.
So, who was doing all the WORK?
You keep making a big production about Ponders TD-INT ratio...Jackson's was WORSE!!!
Fact is, the only way we won games that season was if AP tore it up and the Defense shut 'em down. When AP got stuffed, we lost. Why? Because JACKSON SUCKED.
Ponder has shown more promise, more potential, and has LEAD the team. AP and the Defense have not "bailed him out" or "carried" him as they did Jackson because AP was out and the "D" sucked.
We were RIGHT. You were Wrong. It doesn't matter that it only took most of us a handful of games to realize that Chiller had screwed the pooch, and that Jackson wasn't going to be what Chiller claimed.
Actually, he was. Chiller claimed he was the next Donovan McNabb...and he sucks just as bad.
Now, we wait to see if Ponder has put the pieces together and is ready to become a real NFL QB.
If so, yay, we have a piece of the puzzle. If not, we will criticize his play as well. Just like we did to Jackson, to Culpepper, to Mcnabb, to Holcomb, to Rosenfels, to.....every QB that isn't here anymore.
Childress set the stage for this atrocity we call a team. He screwed us harder than Red "molests marsupials" McCombs did. One of the ways he screwed us was by STAYING WITH JACKSON.
09-12-2012, 10:08 AM #129
Hmmmm, doesn't that kindof differ from your stance when we opted to let him go in that you said he would never make it onto a roster or let a lone be a starter in the NFL.Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.
09-12-2012, 10:12 AM #130