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  1. #221
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: T-Jack vs Whitehurst

    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1104455
    MY OPEN PLEA TO EVERY VIKINGS FAN:

    Can we PLEASE stop arguing about a QB who isn't on our team anymore? Holy crap. We have plenty things on the Vikings to argue about right now, let's stop concerning ourselves with a QB who - for whatever reason - did not succeed in purple.
    Hell, there are still new Culpepper threads out there.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  2. #222
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: T-Jack vs Whitehurst

    Quote Originally Posted by "Prophet" #1104559
    I can hardly wait for the sequel thread. I propose Justin Bieber vs Charlie Sheen.
    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1104455
    MY OPEN PLEA TO EVERY VIKINGS FAN:

    Can we PLEASE stop arguing about a QB who isn't on our team anymore? Holy crap. We have plenty things on the Vikings to argue about right now, let's stop concerning ourselves with a QB who - for whatever reason - did not succeed in purple.
    So.....after which week in the NFL do you two feel the "Bench McNabb, Start Ponder" threads will start?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  3. #223
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: T-Jack vs Whitehurst

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1104573
    Quote Originally Posted by "Prophet" #1104559
    I can hardly wait for the sequel thread. I propose Justin Bieber vs Charlie Sheen.
    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1104455
    MY OPEN PLEA TO EVERY VIKINGS FAN:

    Can we PLEASE stop arguing about a QB who isn't on our team anymore? Holy crap. We have plenty things on the Vikings to argue about right now, let's stop concerning ourselves with a QB who - for whatever reason - did not succeed in purple.
    So.....after which week in the NFL do you two feel the "Bench McNabb, Start Ponder" threads will start?
    LOL, I know a few on here that will start as soon as Ponder lights it up in preseason.

    If I were to guess, I would vote for this weekend after watching the Seachickens defense week one. They can stop the run but sure have/had troubles with stopping the pass, especially routes of the 6, 7, 8 and 9 nature.

    I think our QB's are gonna wear our TE's out in the middle with BB and JJ getting a few on the outside.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  4. #224
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: T-Jack vs Whitehurst

    Seahawks quarterback Charlie Whitehurst remains a mystery

    Arguements aside......A very interesting article.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #225
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re: T-Jack vs Whitehurst

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1104571
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1104411
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1104325
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1104305
    When I judge Jackson ON HIS OWN this season, it will not be by referencing Preseason numbers.

    Caine
    We all know you won't judge him fairly even if he does manage a good season. (Based on the Seahawks Oline play I witnessed, none of their QB's will. I don't even think Brady could pull it off.)

    Marrdro will never win that bet IYO.

    First off, you said "legitimate" QB. If TJ had a good year you'd still claim he had no competition in camp & was gifted the starting role, ergo no legitimacy.

    2ndly in any game he won, we'd hear once again how the receivers caught balls thrown to them, ergo it was a bailout. If the Seahawks defense happened to stop their opponents from scoring on any drives, you'd once again call that a bailout. If a FG is kicked...bailout! "Bailout" is your way of discrediting anytime Jackson did good. "Bailout" is a term you've used against 1 QB & 1 QB only in all your years on PP.O, even though the things you are calling bailouts have happened to every Vikings starting QB since their existence.

    Sorry Marty, no free beer.
    Thank you for having such a low opinion of my personal integrity. I appreciate it.

    For the record, I never used "Bailout" to discredit Jackson doing good, I used it when it was warranted - when Jackson rode someone else's coat tails.

    Let's see, when I started here, Culpepper was the QB...I stated many times that Moss made Culpepper. That's a lot like saying "bailout".

    Then we had Johnson...I flat out stated Johnson sucked in '06. Not sure that I made any excuses for him.

    In '07, I hacked on all the QBs...because they all sucked.

    Then we went with Jackson for a few more games in '08...then Frerotte. Frerotte actually LEAD the team, despite not being noted for spectacular play. Jackson, meanwhile, sucked.

    Then there was Favre in '09...go ahead, tell me who bailed him out?

    Then Favre in '10 - who I said sucked, repeatedly.

    Then Jackson came back -after MONTHS of hype and build up by YOU...and sucked.

    So...where's the smoking gun?

    Bottom line here is that you hitched your wagon to Jackson a long time ago..and I didn't. And you can't seem to get past the fact that you have been fundamentally wrong on that issue for years. Apparently it galls you so badly that you've now sunk to disparaging my character in order to try and prove a (false) point.

    Here's the thing...there are 5 opinions in the world that I give a shit about...and you aren't on that list. If Marrdro has any doubts about my ability to give Jackson a fair shake, I will let him out of the bet right now.

    Further, if I were to pull the douche-move you are claiming I will, don't you think I'll reap it here? Or are you now so far gone that you believe that I have all of PPO under my power? Maybe people agree with me because there's some truth in what I'm saying...

    Caine
    I don't have a low opinion of you're integrity at all. I just find your view point towards Jackson biased towards hatred and trying to minimize anything positive he has done, little as it may be and credit others for the win.

    There were times when Favre was "bailed out" in 09 using similar criteria you used in the Bills game. Despite the loss, the championship game was one of those times.

    Frerotte definitely had his share of "bail outs".

    BTW, I haven't hitched my wagon to TJ in the sense that you believe. I know he can do bad & good. You believe he does bad & its others that make him look good. That's where we differ.

    I never said Jackson would be great or even successful. All I ever maintained was we needed to play him, find out & move on. You don't find out while he's sitting on the bench. IMO, they should have played him the entire year in 2008 & then moved on without him in 2009 if he wasn't going to pan out.

    You don't have to value my opinion, even though you & I usually agree on most other things outside of TJ. Not asking you to. But many of those "issues" you claim I was fundamentally wrong on that you called excuses, were still inherent on the team last year. Once they occurred with Favre under center, they became more apparent.

    The HC issue may have been resolved. The OL & receiving corp issues that were there in 2008 still are there today.
    Let me try and clarify my position, once and for all, so we can stop the silliness and get back to agreeing on most issues.

    I never hated Jackson. To this day, I don't "hate" Jackson. I wanted him to succeed. In fact, if you recall in his 2nd season, it was ME who was the loudest advocate of NOT putting him in and letting him learn behind Holcomb and whats-his-face. I got shouted down for my trouble.

    When Jackson misfired in year 2, as I was afraid he would, I kept saying he needed more time on the bench. Again, I got shouted down.

    When year 3 rolled in, I had seen all I needed to of Jackson. I had a pretty good idea of what to expect from him, and I wasn't disappointed - he was NOT starting material. This was reinforced by his benching and being replaced by Frerotte.

    Here's what I saw of Jackson - and what I still see today: A guy who doesn't take charge of the team. If the Defense folds, Jackson doesn't compensate. If Peterson misfires, Jackson doesn't rise above. Jackson took the team on his shoulders ONCE (In my opinion)...and despite losing that game, he impressed me....and then never did it again.

    So, when I look at his win loss record, I see a guy who rode other people to victory. When you talk about his completion percentage, I see a guy who threw a lot of quick outs and 5-10 yard hitch routes. When you talk about his QB rating, I see a guy who never seems to put it all on the line.

    Frerotte played his ass off. Yeah, sometimes he sucked, but he left it all on the field.

    Favre played his ass off. Sometimes he sucked, but he tired desperately to win every game.

    Jackson....not so much.

    To me, he's simply not a guy who will motivate a team to victory. He's not a guy that people rally around. He's not a LEADER.

    And we needed a leader.

    Now that he's in Seattle, I really doubt he's going to shift gears and play lights out football. He has once again landed in a position where he is the best of a crappy lot of QB's...and he might lose that job still.

    So, does Marrdro have a shot at winning the bet? Sure he does. But not a very good one. And it won't be because I "hate" Jackson or because I write off all of his accomplishments...it'll be because Jackson won't perform. And when it's all said and done, whichever way I decide, the vast majority will agree with me.

    Caine

  6. #226
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    Re: T-Jack vs Whitehurst

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1104573
    Quote Originally Posted by "Prophet" #1104559
    I can hardly wait for the sequel thread. I propose Justin Bieber vs Charlie Sheen.
    Quote Originally Posted by "NodakPaul" #1104455
    MY OPEN PLEA TO EVERY VIKINGS FAN:

    Can we PLEASE stop arguing about a QB who isn't on our team anymore? Holy crap. We have plenty things on the Vikings to argue about right now, let's stop concerning ourselves with a QB who - for whatever reason - did not succeed in purple.
    So.....after which week in the NFL do you two feel the "Bench McNabb, Start Ponder" threads will start?
    I hope they don't. Let McNabb earn his 5 mill...and let Ponder develop a bit. All indications right now are that he's not quite ready to take over...let him learn.

    Caine

  7. #227
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: T-Jack vs Whitehurst

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1104734
    So, does Marrdro have a shot at winning the bet? Sure he does. But not a very good one. And it won't be because I "hate" Jackson or because I write off all of his accomplishments...it'll be because Jackson won't perform. And when it's all said and done, whichever way I decide, the vast majority will agree with me.
    Caine
    Was this "legitimate starting QB" bet made for 2011 only or was it for "ever again", meaning this could drag out for years?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #228
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: T-Jack vs Whitehurst

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1104773
    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1104734
    So, does Marrdro have a shot at winning the bet? Sure he does. But not a very good one. And it won't be because I "hate" Jackson or because I write off all of his accomplishments...it'll be because Jackson won't perform. And when it's all said and done, whichever way I decide, the vast majority will agree with me.
    Caine
    Was this "legitimate starting QB" bet made for 2011 only or was it for "ever again", meaning this could drag out for years?
    I limited it to end this year. Even I will admit that if he isn't ready this year (which I think he was in 2009) then he never will be as I believe he is going to get a real chance at starting with the Seachickens.

    On a side note, when I say given a chance, I don't mean run out there as a rook for 2 games or run out there injured for 2 games either. I mean actually given a chance to start for the best part of the season.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #229
    Brad C. is offline Waterboy
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    Re: T-Jack vs Whitehurst

    They should really give TJack a chance. That kid has got it.
    None

  10. #230
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    Re: T-Jack vs Whitehurst

    Quote Originally Posted by "Brad C." #1104798
    They should really give TJack a chance. That kid has got it.
    Welcome back.

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