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  1. #11
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
    i_bleed_purple is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Stand up if you’re the best team in the NFC North (not so fast, Bears and Li

    "V" wrote:
    "NordicNed" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "BleedinPandG" wrote:
    Does this guy have any idea what he's talking about?

    At left tackle, things were quite a bit closer in the battle between Chad Clifton (Packers) and Bryant McKinnie (Vikings). Funny thing about these two players: Both are considered to be amongst the best left tackles in the league, yet neither has been voted to a Pro Bowl (although Clifton has gone as an alternate). That doesn’t mean they’re not very good, it’s just something that strikes me as interesting.

    That being the case, I am giving the overall advantage to Clifton because, while both are very good in pass protection, Clifton is a better run blocker.
    McKinnie is a good pass protector but Clifton is a better run blocker?
    McKinnie is lousy at pass protection and a dominating run blocker...

    Also, Herrera did nothing to impress him?
    I think he's off his rocker in terms of analyzing the offensive lines.

    Other then that, the rest of the article wasn't bad.
    I would have to agree.

    Maybe he missed the games were Herrera actually pulled, made his block and still stayed with our RB's going into the endzone.



    I'm going to disagree with his statement that, if TJ goes down and GF has to come in for any long period of time, we are done....This is total bullshit, and it wouldn't suprise me if the Vikings players rallyed around Gus and we went on one hell of a winning streak and yes, I believe in a big game like the SB, Gus's Veteran leadership could even shine thru and lead us to victory.......

    Advantage: Vikings big time.


    Who the hell does GB
    have for a backup?....It sure isn't Fumblepepper, not that he would do them any good either..... ;D
    I don't see how you can see Gus Frerotte any differently than Bollinger, Holcomb, or Johnson at this point in the offseason. All those guys had "veteran leadership" too. Last year, when TJ went down, we didn't rally, we went 0-4. They have the talent to offset our experience, making the QB position a tie.
    I still can't bring myself to call Bollinger a "veteran leader"
    Often, "veteran leaders" would need to both be around for a while, and be capable of producing.
    Bollinger was only around 3 years whe he joined the vikings, so he would still be in the learning phase.
    Holcomb has had some better games, and has been around for a while for a few different teams, so I would consider him more of a leader, but still not who I'd want mentoring my young guys.

    Frerrotte has been around for many years (since 94)
    played for many teams, and has put up some ok numbers in the process.
    There's a reason that he's lasted so long in the league, Its not for his playing ability, but more for his VETERAN LEADERSHIP.
    (minus the headbutting incident, which if anyone could find a video of that would be awesome)

  2. #12
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Stand up if you’re the best team in the NFC North (not so fast, Bears and Lions)

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    If I Had to draw my own comparison, it would go like this

    QB- Tie
    RB- Vikings
    FB- Packers
    TE- Packers
    LT- Packers
    LG- Vikings
    C - Vikings
    RG- Vikings
    RT- Packers
    WR1- Packers
    WR2- Packers

    Offense: Packers 6-4-1

    LDE- Packers
    RDE- Vikings
    DT1- Vikings
    DT2- Vikings
    CB1- VIkings
    CB2- Packers
    SLB- Packers
    (can't remember which one Hawk plays, but i'm matching up Hawk and Leber)
    MLB- Vikigns
    WLB- Vikings
    FS
    -
    Vikigns
    SS -

    Vikings

    Defense:
    Vikings 8-3

    P - Vikings
    K - Vikings

    Special Teams: Vikings 2-0

    Coaches

    DC
    -Vikings
    OC
    - Packers
    HC - Packers
    (not a chilly hater, but you need a good coach to make a team that young make a serious run at the superbowl like they did last year)

    Coaches Packers 2-1

    Overall
    VIkings 15-11-1
    Very good breakdown, but to be honest I would give the edge to the Packers in QB, as well as Punting.
    That would make it Vikings 14-13, which sounds about right to me.
    Two very closely matched teams.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  3. #13
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Stand up if you’re the best team in the NFC North (not so fast, Bears and Lions)

    I want to know how he determined the Packers had a solid off season.
    Favre retired.
    I'm not sure what FAs they brought in.
    I think they had a decent draft but that's always a question mark.
    I'd like to find out how he made that determination.

  4. #14
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Stand up if you’re the best team in the NFC North (not so fast, Bears and Lions)

    "ejmat" wrote:
    I want to know how he determined the Packers had a solid off season.
    Favre retired.
    I'm not sure what FAs they brought in.
    I think they had a decent draft but that's always a question mark.
    I'd like to find out how he made that determination.
    I think Green Bay had a good offseason because they didn't bring in a lot of new people.
    Outside losing Fav-re, they are pretty much the same team that went 13-3 last season.
    And while Rodgers is no Fav-re, they had the advantage of grooming him for several years before thrusting him in the spotlight.

    Sometimes your offseason is measured not by how many new players you bring in, but by how many you didn't.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  5. #15
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Stand up if you’re the best team in the NFC North (not so fast, Bears and Lions)

    "ejmat" wrote:
    I want to know how he determined the Packers had a solid off season.
    Favre retired.
    I'm not sure what FAs they brought in.
    I think they had a decent draft but that's always a question mark.
    I'd like to find out how he made that determination.
    They only lost one key guy, that being Favre. Huge loss, but with every other starter from a 13-3 team returning that equates to a good FA (retaining good young players).

    Also, they had a great draft. Jordy Nelson, Brian Brohm, Patrick Lee, and Jermichael Finley.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  6. #16
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: Stand up if you’re the best team in the NFC North (not so fast, Bears and Li

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "NordicNed" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "BleedinPandG" wrote:
    Does this guy have any idea what he's talking about?

    At left tackle, things were quite a bit closer in the battle between Chad Clifton (Packers) and Bryant McKinnie (Vikings). Funny thing about these two players: Both are considered to be amongst the best left tackles in the league, yet neither has been voted to a Pro Bowl (although Clifton has gone as an alternate). That doesn’t mean they’re not very good, it’s just something that strikes me as interesting.

    That being the case, I am giving the overall advantage to Clifton because, while both are very good in pass protection, Clifton is a better run blocker.
    McKinnie is a good pass protector but Clifton is a better run blocker?
    McKinnie is lousy at pass protection and a dominating run blocker...

    Also, Herrera did nothing to impress him?
    I think he's off his rocker in terms of analyzing the offensive lines.

    Other then that, the rest of the article wasn't bad.
    I would have to agree.

    Maybe he missed the games were Herrera actually pulled, made his block and still stayed with our RB's going into the endzone.



    I'm going to disagree with his statement that, if TJ goes down and GF has to come in for any long period of time, we are done....This is total bullshit, and it wouldn't suprise me if the Vikings players rallyed around Gus and we went on one hell of a winning streak and yes, I believe in a big game like the SB, Gus's Veteran leadership could even shine thru and lead us to victory.......

    Advantage: Vikings big time.


    Who the hell does GB
    have for a backup?....It sure isn't Fumblepepper, not that he would do them any good either..... ;D
    I don't see how you can see Gus Frerotte any differently than Bollinger, Holcomb, or Johnson at this point in the offseason. All those guys had "veteran leadership" too. Last year, when TJ went down, we didn't rally, we went 0-4. They have the talent to offset our experience, making the QB position a tie.
    I still can't bring myself to call Bollinger a "veteran leader"
    Often, "veteran leaders" would need to both be around for a while, and be capable of producing.
    Bollinger was only around 3 years whe he joined the vikings, so he would still be in the learning phase.

    Holcomb has had some better games, and has been around for a while for a few different teams, so I would consider him more of a leader, but still not who I'd want mentoring my young guys.

    Frerrotte has been around for many years (since 94)
    played for many teams, and has put up some ok numbers in the process.
    There's a reason that he's lasted so long in the league, Its not for his playing ability, but more for his VETERAN LEADERSHIP.
    (minus the headbutting incident, which if anyone could find a video of that would be awesome)
    I see where you're coming from, but I just don't see how Frerotte's veteran leadership will translate to wins on the field. Johnson's didn't. Holcomb's didn't. I hope things are different but I honestle can't find a good reason for doing so. We are better off than we were last year if TJ goes down, but I still don't expect wins, let alone winning streaks, or SB wins, from Gus Frerotte.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  7. #17
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    Re: Stand up if you’re the best team in the NFC North (not so fast, Bears and Li

    "V" wrote:
    I see where you're coming from, but I just don't see how Frerotte's veteran leadership will translate to wins on the field. Johnson's didn't. Holcomb's didn't. I hope things are different but I honestle can't find a good reason for doing so. We are better off than we were last year if TJ goes down, but I still don't expect wins, let alone winning streaks, or SB wins, from Gus Frerotte.
    Frerotte has embraced the role of being a mentor though.
    Johnson still wanted to start, and Holcomb never got it to begin with.
    Frerotte said in an interview that when he finally accepted that he was no longer a starter and embraced the idea of being a mentor, he realized how much he could contribute.
    That was in 2004 - the year the DC had MVP like numbers...
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  8. #18
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    Re: Stand up if you’re the best team in the NFC North (not so fast, Bears and Lions)

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    I want to know how he determined the Packers had a solid off season.
    Favre retired.
    I'm not sure what FAs they brought in.
    I think they had a decent draft but that's always a question mark.
    I'd like to find out how he made that determination.
    I think Green Bay had a good offseason because they didn't bring in a lot of new people.
    Outside losing Fav-re, they are pretty much the same team that went 13-3 last season.
    And while Rodgers is no Fav-re, they had the advantage of grooming him for several years before thrusting him in the spotlight.

    Sometimes your offseason is measured not by how many new players you bring in, but by how many you didn't.
    That's all well and good...but their main rival for the division crown (VIKINGS) DID bring in a ton of new talent, namely someone (Allen) who can get to the one player that they DID replace.
    Ask Tom Brady about how much a constant pass rush can disrupt a game plan. Watch the difference that it makes for the Vikings when they play Green Bay!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  9. #19
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Stand up if you’re the best team in the NFC North (not so fast, Bears and Lions)

    "cajunvike" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    I want to know how he determined the Packers had a solid off season.
    Favre retired.
    I'm not sure what FAs they brought in.
    I think they had a decent draft but that's always a question mark.
    I'd like to find out how he made that determination.
    I think Green Bay had a good offseason because they didn't bring in a lot of new people.
    Outside losing Fav-re, they are pretty much the same team that went 13-3 last season.
    And while Rodgers is no Fav-re, they had the advantage of grooming him for several years before thrusting him in the spotlight.

    Sometimes your offseason is measured not by how many new players you bring in, but by how many you didn't.
    That's all well and good...but their main rival for the division crown (VIKINGS) DID bring in a ton of new talent, namely someone (Allen) who can get to the one player that they DID replace.
    Ask Tom Brady about how much a constant pass rush can disrupt a game plan. Watch the difference that it makes for the Vikings when they play Green Bay!
    I agree, but the fact that we had a good offseason doesn't change the fact that they did too, albeit for different reasons.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  10. #20
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    Re: Stand up if you’re the best team in the NFC North (not so fast, Bears and Lions)

    These paper matchups are entertaining in the off season.

    Fact is. Green Bay was 13-3 and missed going to the superbowl by 3 points in overtime last season.
    The Vikings were a team far short of that level of play. In fact the Vikings haven't beat Green bay the past two years; and got trounced in their most recent meeting(bye bye Bollinger).

    So the Vikings are only a paper contender at this point. Despite losing Favre, Green Bay is likely to be a very solid team.

    The road to the championship goes through Green Bay.I don't expect it will be easy.
    But I believe it will get done. We saw glimpses of potential against the Giants and San Diego last year.
    This year we will see more than a glimpse.
    What takes a quarterback to the next level is not arm strength or mobility or any of that stuff. Its the ability to play on critical downs. Manage third downs, or red zones or four-minute or two-minute situations"
    Dilfer

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