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  1. #101
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Stallworth over legal limit when he hit and killed pedestrian

    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    Drivers on Cell Phones Kill Thousands, Snarl Traffic

    Cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths and 330,000 injuries in the United States every year, according to the journal's publisher, the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society.
    So let's see...
    according to the link you provided, cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths per year.
    And drunk driving causes 13,000+ deaths per year.

    And yet you say that talking on the cell phone is more dangerous than driving drunk...
    I don't see it.
    Unless I am mistaken, 13,000 > 2600.

    And where in the hell do you get the idea that a DWI is punishable by up to 15 years in jail?
    Involuntary Manslaughter, which is a felony, doesn't even carry that kind of a sentence. The punishment in Minnesota for a first time DWI is a maximum of 90 days in jail or $1000 or both.
    And no, I don't think that is punishment enough.

    http://www1.umn.edu/usls/pdfs/DWI.pdf
    If you are found guilty or plead to DWI or a lesser offense, you are guilty of a misdemeanor. The maximum sentence for a misdemeanor is up to 90 days in jail and a $1,000 fine or both. If you have had more than one DWI in the past ten years or have a test reading of point .20 or greater, you may be charged with a gross misdemeanor, which carries a maximum penalty of up to one year in jail and fine of up to $3,000.
    I personally support making it illegal to talk on cell phones while driving.
    But I fail to see how anyone can compare it in seriousness to driving while intoxicated.
    This is a false analogy anyways.
    There are considerable differences between people driving under the influence of alcohol and people talking on cell phones while driving.
    For instance, people on a cell phone have the ability to stop talking on the cell phone in the event that traffic becomes bad or road conditions worsen, while people who are intoxicated do not have the ability to "stop being drunk".
    QFT
    it isn't driving while talking being the problem, as you do that with ppl in the same car as you...

    it's the dialing and texting and reading emails that are the problem.

  2. #102
    Vikes_King's Avatar
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    Re: Stallworth over legal limit when he hit and killed pedestrian

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    Drivers on Cell Phones Kill Thousands, Snarl Traffic

    Cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths and 330,000 injuries in the United States every year, according to the journal's publisher, the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society.
    So let's see...
    according to the link you provided, cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths per year.
    And drunk driving causes 13,000+ deaths per year.

    And yet you say that talking on the cell phone is more dangerous than driving drunk...
    I don't see it.
    Unless I am mistaken, 13,000 > 2600.

    And where in the hell do you get the idea that a DWI is punishable by up to 15 years in jail?
    Involuntary Manslaughter, which is a felony, doesn't even carry that kind of a sentence. The punishment in Minnesota for a first time DWI is a maximum of 90 days in jail or $1000 or both.
    And no, I don't think that is punishment enough.

    http://www1.umn.edu/usls/pdfs/DWI.pdf
    If you are found guilty or plead to DWI or a lesser offense, you are guilty of a misdemeanor. The maximum sentence for a misdemeanor is up to 90 days in jail and a $1,000 fine or both. If you have had more than one DWI in the past ten years or have a test reading of point .20 or greater, you may be charged with a gross misdemeanor, which carries a maximum penalty of up to one year in jail and fine of up to $3,000.
    I personally support making it illegal to talk on cell phones while driving.
    But I fail to see how anyone can compare it in seriousness to driving while intoxicated.
    This is a false analogy anyways.
    There are considerable differences between people driving under the influence of alcohol and people talking on cell phones while driving.
    For instance, people on a cell phone have the ability to stop talking on the cell phone in the event that traffic becomes bad or road conditions worsen, while people who are intoxicated do not have the ability to "stop being drunk".
    I didn't say cell phones caused more deaths, as said its as dangerous as driving while intoxicated.
    If you read some of those links, all of them say that.
    You brain can not comprehend so many things at once, carrying on a conversation while driving means you're not focusing on the road - you may be looking at it, but you're not collecting the information properly.


    Ignore my "15 years" thing on that post, that is from the manslaughter thing, I threw that in there when i shouldn't have :P I was just arguing that a DUI shouldn't be felony, and if it is, so should talking on the phone while driving


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    - Dan Calabrese

  3. #103
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Stallworth over legal limit when he hit and killed pedestrian

    BTW, there IS a felony DWI law in Minnesota - if you have more than 3 DWIs in a 10 year period you can be charged with felony DWI.
    Want to know what the average jail time is?

    http://www.doc.state.mn.us/publications/legislativereports/documents/DWI_2007FINAL.pdf

    216 days.

    Just over seven months for willingly endangering the lives of people around you at least four times in ten years (most likely much more).
    Yeah, those poor poor people convicted of felony DWIs.
    What a harsh punishment...

    The life they take the next time they get behind the wheel drunk could be your mother, or sister, or child, or husband, etc...

    In Minnestoa, 85% of the people who are arrested for DWI are never arrested for DWI again.
    One of the reasons is because the penalty for second DWI in a ten year period are so much harsher.
    Move the harsh penalties to the initial DWI, and you will drastically reduce inital number.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  4. #104
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    Re: Stallworth over legal limit when he hit and killed pedestrian

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    BTW, there IS a felony DWI law in Minnesota - if you have more than 3 DWIs in a 10 year period you can be charged with felony DWI.
    Want to know what the average jail time is?

    http://www.doc.state.mn.us/publications/legislativereports/documents/DWI_2007FINAL.pdf

    216 days.

    Just over seven months for willingly endangering the lives of people around you at least four times in ten years (most likely much more).
    Yeah, those poor poor people convicted of felony DWIs.
    What a harsh punishment...

    The life they take the next time they get behind the wheel drunk could be your mother, or sister, or child, or husband, etc...

    In Minnestoa, 85% of the people who are arrested for DWI are never arrested for DWI again.
    One of the reasons is because the penalty for second DWI in a ten year period are so much harsher.
    Move the harsh penalties to the initial DWI, and you will drastically reduce inital number.
    I know there is.
    I'm very familiar with Minnesota law.
    If you want to argue how severe the punishment should be for multiple offenders, that's a different story.
    People make stupid mistakes, I don't believe a first offense should be felony, I believe the law is pretty decent for first time DUI.
    I do agree that people who get 2, 3,+ DWI's should be punished severely.
    Driving while intoxicated once can be a mistake, two or more is habit.


    http://vikesking.blogspot.com/

    "We’ll win our own Super Bowl, with our own players. Real Vikings. Something Brett Favre can never be."

    - Dan Calabrese

  5. #105
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    Re: Stallworth over legal limit when he hit and killed pedestrian

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    Drivers on Cell Phones Kill Thousands, Snarl Traffic

    Cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths and 330,000 injuries in the United States every year, according to the journal's publisher, the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society.
    So let's see...
    according to the link you provided, cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths per year.
    And drunk driving causes 13,000+ deaths per year.

    And yet you say that talking on the cell phone is more dangerous than driving drunk...
    I don't see it.
    Unless I am mistaken, 13,000 > 2600.

    And where in the hell do you get the idea that a DWI is punishable by up to 15 years in jail?
    Involuntary Manslaughter, which is a felony, doesn't even carry that kind of a sentence. The punishment in Minnesota for a first time DWI is a maximum of 90 days in jail or $1000 or both.
    And no, I don't think that is punishment enough.

    http://www1.umn.edu/usls/pdfs/DWI.pdf
    If you are found guilty or plead to DWI or a lesser offense, you are guilty of a misdemeanor. The maximum sentence for a misdemeanor is up to 90 days in jail and a $1,000 fine or both. If you have had more than one DWI in the past ten years or have a test reading of point .20 or greater, you may be charged with a gross misdemeanor, which carries a maximum penalty of up to one year in jail and fine of up to $3,000.
    I personally support making it illegal to talk on cell phones while driving.
    But I fail to see how anyone can compare it in seriousness to driving while intoxicated.
    This is a false analogy anyways.
    There are considerable differences between people driving under the influence of alcohol and people talking on cell phones while driving.
    For instance, people on a cell phone have the ability to stop talking on the cell phone in the event that traffic becomes bad or road conditions worsen, while people who are intoxicated do not have the ability to "stop being drunk".
    QFT
    it isn't driving while talking being the problem, as you do that with ppl in the same car as you...

    it's the dialing and texting and reading emails that are the problem.
    and actually, no.
    Dialing/texting/reading emails is worse than just talking, but talking is still a problem

    read some of those links that discuss having a conversation with someone in the car, otherwise I can provide more.
    Carrying on a conversation with anyone - either on the phone or in the car, can be just as distracting as driving under the influence of alcohol or marijuana, it reduces your ability to concentrate on the road.
    You "look but don't see", as it says in one of the links.

    The whole reason I'm bringing cell phones/chatting into the argument is just to back my reasoning why I say a first offense DWI shouldn't be a felony.
    But, I've got to get to class now, see you guys in a couple hours :P just arguing to pass time


    http://vikesking.blogspot.com/

    "We’ll win our own Super Bowl, with our own players. Real Vikings. Something Brett Favre can never be."

    - Dan Calabrese

  6. #106
    NodakPaul's Avatar
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    Re: Stallworth over legal limit when he hit and killed pedestrian

    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    I didn't say cell phones caused more deaths, as said its as dangerous as driving while intoxicated.
    If you read some of those links, all of them say that.
    You brain can not comprehend so many things at once, carrying on a conversation while driving means you're not focusing on the road - you may be looking at it, but you're not collecting the information properly.
    I don't dispute that at all.
    In fact, I think most people are beginning to understand that nationally.
    That is one of the reasons that it has come into the national spotlight, especially with teenagers.

    But an important thing to look at in these studies is that you are comparing a lack of focus to the inability to focus and a decreased response time.
    When you stop talking on the phone, you regain your focus.
    Sobering up is the only way to regain your response time and ability to focus.

    You also have to look at the proportion of time that the driver is engaged in the cell phone conversation as opposed to the proportion of time a driver is drunk.
    How long is a driver distracted by his or her conversation while driving?
    10%? 35%? 50%?
    I don't know what the number is, but I can guarantee that it is not 100%, and truth be told I would expect it to be far less than half of the total drive.
    Yet a drunk driver is impaired 100% of the time that they are driving.
    Talking on the cell phone may be as dangerous as drunk driving - but it will still result in far less deaths because overall impact is simply less.


    Using the lack of support for a felony "driving while phoning" law to support your stance that there shouldn't be a felony DWI law isn't going to fly.
    There are many reasons while the two simply are not comparable.
    Zeus wrote:
    When are you going to realize that picking out the 20 bad throws this year and ignoring the 300 good ones does not make your point?

    =Z=

  7. #107
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Stallworth over legal limit when he hit and killed pedestrian

    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    Drivers on Cell Phones Kill Thousands, Snarl Traffic

    Cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths and 330,000 injuries in the United States every year, according to the journal's publisher, the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society.
    So let's see...
    according to the link you provided, cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths per year.
    And drunk driving causes 13,000+ deaths per year.

    And yet you say that talking on the cell phone is more dangerous than driving drunk...
    I don't see it.
    Unless I am mistaken, 13,000 > 2600.

    And where in the hell do you get the idea that a DWI is punishable by up to 15 years in jail?
    Involuntary Manslaughter, which is a felony, doesn't even carry that kind of a sentence. The punishment in Minnesota for a first time DWI is a maximum of 90 days in jail or $1000 or both.
    And no, I don't think that is punishment enough.

    http://www1.umn.edu/usls/pdfs/DWI.pdf
    If you are found guilty or plead to DWI or a lesser offense, you are guilty of a misdemeanor. The maximum sentence for a misdemeanor is up to 90 days in jail and a $1,000 fine or both. If you have had more than one DWI in the past ten years or have a test reading of point .20 or greater, you may be charged with a gross misdemeanor, which carries a maximum penalty of up to one year in jail and fine of up to $3,000.
    I personally support making it illegal to talk on cell phones while driving.
    But I fail to see how anyone can compare it in seriousness to driving while intoxicated.
    This is a false analogy anyways.
    There are considerable differences between people driving under the influence of alcohol and people talking on cell phones while driving.
    For instance, people on a cell phone have the ability to stop talking on the cell phone in the event that traffic becomes bad or road conditions worsen, while people who are intoxicated do not have the ability to "stop being drunk".
    QFT
    it isn't driving while talking being the problem, as you do that with ppl in the same car as you...

    it's the dialing and texting and reading emails that are the problem.
    and actually, no.
    Dialing/texting/reading emails is worse than just talking, but talking is still a problem


    read some of those links that discuss having a conversation with someone in the car, otherwise I can provide more.
    Carrying on a conversation with anyone - either on the phone or in the car, can be just as distracting as driving under the influence of alcohol or marijuana, it reduces your ability to concentrate on the road.
    You "look but don't see", as it says in one of the links.

    The whole reason I'm bringing cell phones/chatting into the argument is just to back my reasoning why I say a first offense DWI shouldn't be a felony.

    But, I've got to get to class now, see you guys in a couple hours :P just arguing to pass time

    i don't think talking on the phone or with someone in the car is that serious.... driving impaired or texting/reading dialing is far worse bc it takes your eyes off the road..

    I've never heard of anyone getting into an accident bc they were talking to someone in the passenger seat...



  8. #108
    jessejames09's Avatar
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    Re: Stallworth over legal limit when he hit and killed pedestrian

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    [quote author=Vikes_King link=topic=51093.msg925744#msg925744 date=1237834540]
    Drivers on Cell Phones Kill Thousands, Snarl Traffic

    Cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths and 330,000 injuries in the United States every year, according to the journal's publisher, the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society.
    So let's see...
    according to the link you provided, cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths per year.
    And drunk driving causes 13,000+ deaths per year.

    And yet you say that talking on the cell phone is more dangerous than driving drunk...
    I don't see it.
    Unless I am mistaken, 13,000 > 2600.

    And where in the hell do you get the idea that a DWI is punishable by up to 15 years in jail?
    Involuntary Manslaughter, which is a felony, doesn't even carry that kind of a sentence. The punishment in Minnesota for a first time DWI is a maximum of 90 days in jail or $1000 or both.
    And no, I don't think that is punishment enough.

    http://www1.umn.edu/usls/pdfs/DWI.pdf
    If you are found guilty or plead to DWI or a lesser offense, you are guilty of a misdemeanor. The maximum sentence for a misdemeanor is up to 90 days in jail and a $1,000 fine or both. If you have had more than one DWI in the past ten years or have a test reading of point .20 or greater, you may be charged with a gross misdemeanor, which carries a maximum penalty of up to one year in jail and fine of up to $3,000.
    I personally support making it illegal to talk on cell phones while driving.
    But I fail to see how anyone can compare it in seriousness to driving while intoxicated.
    This is a false analogy anyways.
    There are considerable differences between people driving under the influence of alcohol and people talking on cell phones while driving.
    For instance, people on a cell phone have the ability to stop talking on the cell phone in the event that traffic becomes bad or road conditions worsen, while people who are intoxicated do not have the ability to "stop being drunk".
    QFT
    it isn't driving while talking being the problem, as you do that with ppl in the same car as you...

    it's the dialing and texting and reading emails that are the problem.
    and actually, no.
    Dialing/texting/reading emails is worse than just talking, but talking is still a problem


    read some of those links that discuss having a conversation with someone in the car, otherwise I can provide more.
    Carrying on a conversation with anyone - either on the phone or in the car, can be just as distracting as driving under the influence of alcohol or marijuana, it reduces your ability to concentrate on the road.
    You "look but don't see", as it says in one of the links.

    The whole reason I'm bringing cell phones/chatting into the argument is just to back my reasoning why I say a first offense DWI shouldn't be a felony.

    But, I've got to get to class now, see you guys in a couple hours :P just arguing to pass time

    i don't think talking on the phone or with someone in the car is that serious.... driving impaired or texting/reading dialing is far worse bc it takes your eyes off the road..

    I've never heard of anyone getting into an accident bc they were talking to someone in the passenger seat...



    [/quote]

    It's not the talking on the phone. It's the fact that you are distracting yourself as well as using one hand to hold your phone.

    I'm pretty sure hands-free phones are legal while driving in most places.

  9. #109
    bleedpurple is offline Ring of Fame
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    Re: Stallworth over legal limit when he hit and killed pedestrian

    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "jargomcfargo" wrote:
    [quote author=NodakPaul link=topic=51093.msg925781#msg925781 date=1237835814]
    [quote author=Vikes_King link=topic=51093.msg925744#msg925744 date=1237834540]
    Drivers on Cell Phones Kill Thousands, Snarl Traffic

    Cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths and 330,000 injuries in the United States every year, according to the journal's publisher, the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society.
    So let's see...
    according to the link you provided, cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths per year.
    And drunk driving causes 13,000+ deaths per year.

    And yet you say that talking on the cell phone is more dangerous than driving drunk...
    I don't see it.
    Unless I am mistaken, 13,000 > 2600.

    And where in the hell do you get the idea that a DWI is punishable by up to 15 years in jail?
    Involuntary Manslaughter, which is a felony, doesn't even carry that kind of a sentence. The punishment in Minnesota for a first time DWI is a maximum of 90 days in jail or $1000 or both.
    And no, I don't think that is punishment enough.

    http://www1.umn.edu/usls/pdfs/DWI.pdf
    If you are found guilty or plead to DWI or a lesser offense, you are guilty of a misdemeanor. The maximum sentence for a misdemeanor is up to 90 days in jail and a $1,000 fine or both. If you have had more than one DWI in the past ten years or have a test reading of point .20 or greater, you may be charged with a gross misdemeanor, which carries a maximum penalty of up to one year in jail and fine of up to $3,000.
    I personally support making it illegal to talk on cell phones while driving.
    But I fail to see how anyone can compare it in seriousness to driving while intoxicated.
    This is a false analogy anyways.
    There are considerable differences between people driving under the influence of alcohol and people talking on cell phones while driving.
    For instance, people on a cell phone have the ability to stop talking on the cell phone in the event that traffic becomes bad or road conditions worsen, while people who are intoxicated do not have the ability to "stop being drunk".
    QFT
    it isn't driving while talking being the problem, as you do that with ppl in the same car as you...

    it's the dialing and texting and reading emails that are the problem.
    and actually, no.
    Dialing/texting/reading emails is worse than just talking, but talking is still a problem


    read some of those links that discuss having a conversation with someone in the car, otherwise I can provide more.
    Carrying on a conversation with anyone - either on the phone or in the car, can be just as distracting as driving under the influence of alcohol or marijuana, it reduces your ability to concentrate on the road.
    You "look but don't see", as it says in one of the links.

    The whole reason I'm bringing cell phones/chatting into the argument is just to back my reasoning why I say a first offense DWI shouldn't be a felony.

    But, I've got to get to class now, see you guys in a couple hours :P just arguing to pass time

    i don't think talking on the phone or with someone in the car is that serious.... driving impaired or texting/reading dialing is far worse bc it takes your eyes off the road..

    I've never heard of anyone getting into an accident bc they were talking to someone in the passenger seat...



    [/quote]

    It's not the talking on the phone. It's the fact that you are distracting yourself as well as using one hand to hold your phone.

    I'm pretty sure hands-free phones are legal while driving in most places.
    [/quote]

    I agree.. but let's be honest... how many ppl do you know that actually have both hands on the wheel all the time with the exception of turning or hitting a corner on the highway or off-ramp...

    hands free i agree..

  10. #110
    jessejames09's Avatar
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    Re: Stallworth over legal limit when he hit and killed pedestrian

    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "jessejames09" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    "Vikes_King" wrote:
    "bleedpurple" wrote:
    [quote author=jargomcfargo link=topic=51093.msg925789#msg925789 date=1237836036]
    [quote author=NodakPaul link=topic=51093.msg925781#msg925781 date=1237835814]
    [quote author=Vikes_King link=topic=51093.msg925744#msg925744 date=1237834540]
    Drivers on Cell Phones Kill Thousands, Snarl Traffic

    Cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths and 330,000 injuries in the United States every year, according to the journal's publisher, the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society.
    So let's see...
    according to the link you provided, cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths per year.
    And drunk driving causes 13,000+ deaths per year.

    And yet you say that talking on the cell phone is more dangerous than driving drunk...
    I don't see it.
    Unless I am mistaken, 13,000 > 2600.

    And where in the hell do you get the idea that a DWI is punishable by up to 15 years in jail?
    Involuntary Manslaughter, which is a felony, doesn't even carry that kind of a sentence. The punishment in Minnesota for a first time DWI is a maximum of 90 days in jail or $1000 or both.
    And no, I don't think that is punishment enough.

    http://www1.umn.edu/usls/pdfs/DWI.pdf
    If you are found guilty or plead to DWI or a lesser offense, you are guilty of a misdemeanor. The maximum sentence for a misdemeanor is up to 90 days in jail and a $1,000 fine or both. If you have had more than one DWI in the past ten years or have a test reading of point .20 or greater, you may be charged with a gross misdemeanor, which carries a maximum penalty of up to one year in jail and fine of up to $3,000.
    I personally support making it illegal to talk on cell phones while driving.
    But I fail to see how anyone can compare it in seriousness to driving while intoxicated.
    This is a false analogy anyways.
    There are considerable differences between people driving under the influence of alcohol and people talking on cell phones while driving.
    For instance, people on a cell phone have the ability to stop talking on the cell phone in the event that traffic becomes bad or road conditions worsen, while people who are intoxicated do not have the ability to "stop being drunk".
    QFT
    it isn't driving while talking being the problem, as you do that with ppl in the same car as you...

    it's the dialing and texting and reading emails that are the problem.
    and actually, no.
    Dialing/texting/reading emails is worse than just talking, but talking is still a problem


    read some of those links that discuss having a conversation with someone in the car, otherwise I can provide more.
    Carrying on a conversation with anyone - either on the phone or in the car, can be just as distracting as driving under the influence of alcohol or marijuana, it reduces your ability to concentrate on the road.
    You "look but don't see", as it says in one of the links.

    The whole reason I'm bringing cell phones/chatting into the argument is just to back my reasoning why I say a first offense DWI shouldn't be a felony.

    But, I've got to get to class now, see you guys in a couple hours :P just arguing to pass time

    i don't think talking on the phone or with someone in the car is that serious.... driving impaired or texting/reading dialing is far worse bc it takes your eyes off the road..

    I've never heard of anyone getting into an accident bc they were talking to someone in the passenger seat...



    [/quote]

    It's not the talking on the phone. It's the fact that you are distracting yourself as well as using one hand to hold your phone.

    I'm pretty sure hands-free phones are legal while driving in most places.
    [/quote]

    I agree.. but let's be honest... how many ppl do you know that actually have both hands on the wheel all the time with the exception of turning or hitting a corner on the highway or off-ramp...

    hands free i agree..
    [/quote]

    Sometimes you have to turn when you don't necessarily know it. If there's some debris on the highway or a deer decides to cross in front you, it's best that you have both hands on, or at least near the wheel instead of jammed up your ear hole.

    I have no idea why I chose deer as an example, must be wishful thinking. mmmm backstraps.

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