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  1. #231
    tb04512's Avatar
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    Re: Sharper could stay in division and talking to Saints

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Bubba" wrote:
    I too wish that Sharper could've stayed in MN.
    Now especially with Longwell and Favre on the team.
    But what's done is done for a reason whether we like it or not.
    I know that we need to work on open field tackling in regards to Madieu Williams and Johnson.
    But there are others that need work too, but our defnese looked pretty damn good last night.
    Like I said though we need to work on our open field tackling especially against the stronger part of the schedule coming up.
    except for 3 or 4 plays, our D was outstanding.
    Fraizer needs a slap in the face too though, yes, its on TJ and Madieu not to fuck up, but they shouldn't be in a position to be the only man within 30 yards of the tight end on an intermediate throw over the middle.
    this is something i was saying last night.. where the fuck is everyone else? our safeties are playing so far back that they have to come up and make the tackle because
    no one else is around, part of the TE getting open is EJ's responsibility he needs to drop deeper in the zone.

    Thanks josdin00

  2. #232
    i_bleed_purple's Avatar
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    Re: Sharper could stay in division and talking to Saints

    "tb04512" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Bubba" wrote:
    I too wish that Sharper could've stayed in MN.
    Now especially with Longwell and Favre on the team.
    But what's done is done for a reason whether we like it or not.
    I know that we need to work on open field tackling in regards to Madieu Williams and Johnson.
    But there are others that need work too, but our defnese looked pretty damn good last night.
    Like I said though we need to work on our open field tackling especially against the stronger part of the schedule coming up.
    except for 3 or 4 plays, our D was outstanding.
    Fraizer needs a slap in the face too though, yes, its on TJ and Madieu not to fuck up, but they shouldn't be in a position to be the only man within 30 yards of the tight end on an intermediate throw over the middle.
    this is something i was saying last night.. where the fuck is everyone else? our safeties are playing so far back that they have to come up and make the tackle because
    no one else is around, part of the TE getting open is EJ's responsibility he needs to drop deeper in the zone.
    I believe they were blitzing, or something, because they weren't even close.
    That wasn't a slow drop by the linebackers, it wasn't a drop at all.
    either that, or they were playing some type of man coverage with a cover 2 over the top and the TE was not accounted for.

  3. #233
    Braddock's Avatar
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    Re: Sharper could stay in division and talking to Saints

    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "tb04512" wrote:
    "V4L" wrote:
    "tb04512" wrote:
    "V4L" wrote:
    [quote author=i_bleed_purple link=topic=50761.msg1002944#msg1002944 date=1254847087]
    [quote author=V4L link=topic=50761.msg1002943#msg1002943 date=1254846870]
    Im really starting to not like the Johnson move yet

    Reasoning: when he took over for a games last year he sucked.. Came in during the Philly game.. he sucked.. wanted him to learn for a couple more years.. He's doing the same shit he did last year

    Sharper even out of position and aging and having to play back in a zone.. Is much better then TJ


    The Birk deal.. Wasn't particuarly happy.. But he wanted to move on.. Really not much to do

    only a matter of minutes until Zeus comes in asking for the msised tackles stat, which we all know doesn't exist, so he can't be proven right or wrong, but will keep thinking he's right.

    Well thus far Johnson has done his best to be atop that stat
    ? he has 17 tackles this year, the problem is madieu with trying to tackle

    Doesn't mean he hasn't whiffed any

    I saw 2 last night.. including a huge play to a TE

    Oh and Sharper has 14 tackles
    didn't say he
    hasn't missed any, he isn't missing as many as you are portraying.
    Sharper didn't fit here so that point is meaningless
    [/quote]

    he didn't fit here, but still played much better than TJ here.
    I wouldn't expect him to have 5 picks if he were still here, but his coverage would be a litle tighter than TJ's was.
    He's becoming a huge liability.
    [/quote]

    And despite that, we're still winning games. Shows just HOW MUCH this team and accomplish.

    The KAO is actually starting to Kick Ass...

    I'm not missing Sharper. HE did well for us for years, but Johnson will come around eventually.
    Trying to bring rationale to an irrational site

  4. #234
    BleedinPandG is offline Coach
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    Re: Sharper could stay in division and talking to Saints

    "tb04512" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Bubba" wrote:
    I too wish that Sharper could've stayed in MN.
    Now especially with Longwell and Favre on the team.
    But what's done is done for a reason whether we like it or not.
    I know that we need to work on open field tackling in regards to Madieu Williams and Johnson.
    But there are others that need work too, but our defnese looked pretty gol 'darnit good last night.
    Like I said though we need to work on our open field tackling especially against the stronger part of the schedule coming up.
    except for 3 or 4 plays, our D was outstanding.
    Fraizer needs a slap in the face too though, yes, its on TJ and Madieu not to floop up, but they shouldn't be in a position to be the only man within 30 yards of the tight end on an intermediate throw over the middle.
    this is something i was saying last night.. where the floop is everyone else? our safeties are playing so far back that they have to come up and make the tackle because
    no one else is around, part of the TE getting open is EJ's responsibility he needs to drop deeper in the zone.
    At least 1 of them was a zone blitz (Allen made the tackle)... Someone blitzed on that side and Allen was supposed to drop into coverage... the issue was the TE beat him off the line and got behind him... the TE simply was faster than the DE trying to cover him.
    Frankly, with the front 4 we have, I'm not a big fan of zone blitzing.
    The D Line is good at rushing the passer, let them do that... LBs are better (and faster) at covering open space, let them do that.
    Trying to create confusion is over-rated when you have a team that has members who can each independently execute their position at an elite level.
    The true measure of a man is what he'd do knowing he'd never be found out.

  5. #235
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    Re: Sharper could stay in division and talking to Saints

    How many times do I have to say it? The Cover 2 scheme strategically lets a TE beat them. Please stop complaining about us getting beat by TEs when:

    1. Driver is contained and Jennings is shut down
    2. We win.
    3. We make badass goal line stands.
    4. Safeties are not getting beat deep.

    Our LBs are amazing and our Safeties are doing their jobs, even if a TE is getting free.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  6. #236
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    Re: Sharper could stay in division and talking to Saints

    "V" wrote:
    How many times do I have to say it? The Cover 2 scheme strategically lets a TE beat them. Please stop complaining about us getting beat by TEs when:

    1. Driver is contained and Jennings is shut down
    2. We win.
    3. We make badass goal line stands.
    4. Safeties are not getting beat deep.

    Our LBs are amazing and our Safeties are doing their jobs, even if a TE is getting free.
    So the goal of the defense is to allow tight ends to score 60+-yard TDs? C'mon now.
    Obviously it is working fairly well, but the Cover 2 scheme is not meant to "let TEs beat them" ... it just is a spot where the scheme is weak. Ours is VERY weak there and is cause for concern.
    It is not a huge deal when there are a few plays made by the TE, but for TEs to constantly have the cushions they had last night and constantly be able to make the big play they were able to make last night, it is definitely worth noting and trying to fix.

  7. #237
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    Re: Sharper could stay in division and talking to Saints

    "midgensa" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "kspurplepride" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "kevoncox" wrote:
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=50761.msg1002613#msg1002613 date=1254765798]
    [quote author=V link=topic=50761.msg1002580#msg1002580 date=1254760806]
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=50761.msg1002542#msg1002542 date=1254751170]
    [quote author=purple_glory_dreamer link=topic=50761.msg1002531#msg1002531 date=1254750111]
    Its like someone said earlier.
    A coach either has to be a system coach or a player coach.
    Sean Peyton is the epitomy of player coach.
    And right now they look to be one of the best teams in the league.
    I dont know about keeping Sharper as good for us, but I definitely agree about keeping Birk...that was a bonehead move.


    As for Sharper I hate that we couldnt use him the way the Saints are, but in our system we need someone that will bat a ball or make a tackle before trying to pick the ball.
    Birk and Sharper are two different scenarios.
    Birk was offered a contract from MN but he opted to leave.
    Sharper was not offered a new contract and a lot of that is because he didn't fit the cover 2 scheme too well.
    He did want to stay in MN from what he had stated prior.

    We need to stop dwelling on the past.
    Both Birk and Sharper are gone.
    We have Sullivan and Johnson starting in those spots.
    It doesn't matter now what people think of the "moves" or lack there of.
    Birk is a Raven and Sharper is a Saint.
    They may come back to bite us but look at all the good moves made by the FO in recent years.
    The people who said Birk and Sharper had nothing left in the tank were wrong.
    From what I remember they were saying they lost a step and didn't fit the schemes.
    In that case, they are correct in both statements.
    Birk and Sharper are not as quick as they used to be.
    That's not saying they are bad.
    That's saying they are a bit older and aren't the same.


    As far as the scheme is concerned, I cannot speak to Birk because I don't know enough about the OL schematics to say yes or no.
    I do know enough about the Safety position to know.
    Sharper said himself just last year he felt more comfortable with what he was doing later in the year because they were allowing him to freelance more.
    Now he is with a new team that is allowing him to do whatever the heck he wants out there.
    Thus, he is playing better.
    That is how he played in GB and where his comfort zone is.
    That is how the defense was back in 2005 too with the Vikings.
    It changed in 2006 and he was never really able to do well in it.
    Anyone that knows football will tell you that at the NFL level, that is impossible. Simply, you freelance in the NFL you will get killed. Qbs are too good.
    aparantly sanchez isn't.

    He doesn't do whatever he wants, but he plays centerfield.
    He drifts to whatever side he thinks the ball is going to, and tries to make a play.
    Its how he's always played best, and how he continues to play best.
    [/quote]
    TJ has been playing well enough back there... i mean we are number 4 in the league in pass defense currently. I wish Sharper the best, but he wasn't the player we needed in Fraziers system, and I think TJ will grow to be that. We will start to see it by week 8. Johnson has shown flashes of greatness, which is something griffin did before taking his game to a new level
    [/quote]

    we've also played Shaun Hill, Matt Stafford and Brady Quinn...
    I've seen improvements from our pass D, especially from Griffin, but TJ is still a liability.
    As soon as he had to cover anyone worth a gol 'darnit (Vernon Davis) he got lit up.
    [/quote]

    If our Pass defense against Hill, Stafford and Quinn doesn't count then how come Sharper's interceptions of two ROOKIE QBs and a backup count?

    Stats are stats. We have been solid on pass defense no matter who the floop we are playing. Sharper has been solid no matter how crappy the QBs are he is picking.
    [/quote]

    Still have that stance?

  8. #238
    midgensa's Avatar
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    Re: Sharper could stay in division and talking to Saints

    "kevoncox" wrote:
    "midgensa" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "kspurplepride" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    [quote author=kevoncox link=topic=50761.msg1002618#msg1002618 date=1254766398]
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=50761.msg1002613#msg1002613 date=1254765798]
    [quote author=V link=topic=50761.msg1002580#msg1002580 date=1254760806]
    [quote author=ejmat link=topic=50761.msg1002542#msg1002542 date=1254751170]
    [quote author=purple_glory_dreamer link=topic=50761.msg1002531#msg1002531 date=1254750111]
    Its like someone said earlier.
    A coach either has to be a system coach or a player coach.
    Sean Peyton is the epitomy of player coach.
    And right now they look to be one of the best teams in the league.
    I dont know about keeping Sharper as good for us, but I definitely agree about keeping Birk...that was a bonehead move.


    As for Sharper I hate that we couldnt use him the way the Saints are, but in our system we need someone that will bat a ball or make a tackle before trying to pick the ball.
    Birk and Sharper are two different scenarios.
    Birk was offered a contract from MN but he opted to leave.
    Sharper was not offered a new contract and a lot of that is because he didn't fit the cover 2 scheme too well.
    He did want to stay in MN from what he had stated prior.

    We need to stop dwelling on the past.
    Both Birk and Sharper are gone.
    We have Sullivan and Johnson starting in those spots.
    It doesn't matter now what people think of the "moves" or lack there of.
    Birk is a Raven and Sharper is a Saint.
    They may come back to bite us but look at all the good moves made by the FO in recent years.
    The people who said Birk and Sharper had nothing left in the tank were wrong.
    From what I remember they were saying they lost a step and didn't fit the schemes.
    In that case, they are correct in both statements.
    Birk and Sharper are not as quick as they used to be.
    That's not saying they are bad.
    That's saying they are a bit older and aren't the same.


    As far as the scheme is concerned, I cannot speak to Birk because I don't know enough about the OL schematics to say yes or no.
    I do know enough about the Safety position to know.
    Sharper said himself just last year he felt more comfortable with what he was doing later in the year because they were allowing him to freelance more.
    Now he is with a new team that is allowing him to do whatever the heck he wants out there.
    Thus, he is playing better.
    That is how he played in GB and where his comfort zone is.
    That is how the defense was back in 2005 too with the Vikings.
    It changed in 2006 and he was never really able to do well in it.
    Anyone that knows football will tell you that at the NFL level, that is impossible. Simply, you freelance in the NFL you will get killed. Qbs are too good.
    aparantly sanchez isn't.

    He doesn't do whatever he wants, but he plays centerfield.
    He drifts to whatever side he thinks the ball is going to, and tries to make a play.
    Its how he's always played best, and how he continues to play best.
    [/quote]
    TJ has been playing well enough back there... i mean we are number 4 in the league in pass defense currently. I wish Sharper the best, but he wasn't the player we needed in Fraziers system, and I think TJ will grow to be that. We will start to see it by week 8. Johnson has shown flashes of greatness, which is something griffin did before taking his game to a new level
    [/quote]

    we've also played Shaun Hill, Matt Stafford and Brady Quinn...
    I've seen improvements from our pass D, especially from Griffin, but TJ is still a liability.
    As soon as he had to cover anyone worth a gol 'darnit (Vernon Davis) he got lit up.
    [/quote]

    If our Pass defense against Hill, Stafford and Quinn doesn't count then how come Sharper's interceptions of two ROOKIE QBs and a backup count?

    Stats are stats. We have been solid on pass defense no matter who the floop we are playing. Sharper has been solid no matter how crappy the QBs are he is picking.
    [/quote]

    Still have that stance?
    [/quote]

    Still have what stance?

  9. #239
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    Re: Sharper could stay in division and talking to Saints

    "midgensa" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    How many times do I have to say it? The Cover 2 scheme strategically lets a TE beat them. Please stop complaining about us getting beat by TEs when:

    1. Driver is contained and Jennings is shut down
    2. We win.
    3. We make badass goal line stands.
    4. Safeties are not getting beat deep.

    Our LBs are amazing and our Safeties are doing their jobs, even if a TE is getting free.
    So the goal of the defense is to allow tight ends to score 60+-yard TDs? C'mon now.
    Obviously it is working fairly well, but the Cover 2 scheme is not meant to "let TEs beat them" ... it just is a spot where the scheme is weak. Ours is VERY weak there and is cause for concern.
    It is not a huge deal when there are a few plays made by the TE, but for TEs to constantly have the cushions they had last night and constantly be able to make the big play they were able to make last night, it is definitely worth noting and trying to fix.
    You said it yourself. It is a weak spot in the scheme. You aren't going to fix it without creating a weakness somewhere else. Saying that "th goal of the defense is to allow tight ends to score 60+ yard TDs" is sticking words in my mouth and obviously not true. I am just saying that if we can shutdown two talented WRs at the expense of Finley having a big day, that is ok with me.

    This is not a first, we have seen it many time before. During the Childress era, we are 5-4 when the opponent's leading receiver is their TE. In fact, it has happened 3 times already this year. If you remove ST and Defensive scores against us from those nine games, the defense is allowing an average of 16.5 points in those contests.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

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