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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    I was reading you post and started to disagree but the more I read the more I found I agreed with the latter half of your post. To be clear, this is a non story. RC is a piece of shit and so is anyone that uses hate words in that matter (white, black, purple). However, this should have made ESPN and then be done with it. Please believe that his teammates and the other players in the league will take care of it. Every opportunity to take a shot will be taken with much prejudice. This consoling BS is just a smoke screen and it's insulting to the public's intelligence to believe he will go away and come back "cured" of his bigotry. If you think this is bad you should see how your kids talk on COD. If you used that to judge American culture.....my god, we are still in the 1850s.

    As a Black man in America (not African American), I can clearly see the difference between how some Black people use the N-word and how it is used by ther cultures (not only Whites) as an insult or in negative way. However, I decided to stop using the word a long time ago. However, I hate that people try to justify something just because a sub section of a subsection does something. It screams white privilege. We are all individuals and should be treated that way. Just because some Blacks use the N- Word in a positive way doesn't mean we all agree with it but too often we aren't viewed as individuals but as an entire group which is kinda crazy. The same goes with "black on black crime" and it being an excuse from why people shouldn't get wound us
    Best post of the thread.

    There's a lot of 1960's mentality in the thread so I'll just chalk it up to age and move on.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Look, I am not going to even attempt to say that I understand the prejudices you face. I am white, blonde haired and blue eyed. That doesn't mean that we had some sort of silver spoon that made our lives some sort of honeymoon. When I was a kid growing up we routinely got stopped by police for whatever reason they decided to stop us for. We would have our cars checked by them ( I remember one particular night driving with friends in a nearby town and getting pulled over after doing some pheasant hunting earlier in the day. The shotguns were still in the trunk and they took them out and inspected them in front of the whole crowd parked by the mall across the street and gave us the rundown about whether we were out causing trouble, shooting out windows etc. We got over it. But we certainly had plenty of run ins with overzealous law enforcement officers. So it really isn't something that any particular ethnic group has a monopoly on.

    The country has changed dramatically in the nearly 50 years that I have been living. I know that in the rural town I grew up in there was not a single black person in the town the whole time I lived there. People would use derogatory language for sure when referencing blacks but to be honest I know only a small percentage even in that town really were racist. The derogatory comments that they made were the same they used in reference to people in the surrounding communities, Iowa etc.

    One thing that always fails to be mentioned is that yes, your ancestors were subjected to Slavery and that was a terrible thing. But remember that my ancestors did not like, condone or tolerate it and they went to war, shed blood and died so that your ancestors could be freed and treated as equals, they voted for candidates that passed laws establishing those rights and freedoms that should have never needed to be passed in the first place and if it would have been up to my ancestors that dark part of our history would have never happened in the first place.

    So, while there are certainly racist people of all colors in the world, when you look at someone who is white from now on just remember that while some of our ancestors did do terrible things to your ancestors, others gave their lives to make sure you got on the road to where you are today. And many of us would do the same thing today if the need arose. And yeah, sometimes we may say a word that may make you uncomfortable but we also say things to each other that are no better, just as you do. But that doesn't mean we are all out to hold you back or put up barriers or think of you in any way that resembles what others thought of your ancestors.
    I want to point out some clear facts. First thank you for this discussion. I am enjoying it. It is refreshing to speak openly about race. It's a lot more interesting than arguing with Purple Floyd about nothing.

    1. I do not put all white people in the same boat. It's just a idiotic as putting all black people in the same boat. It's simply ill inform.

    2. I am very much so educated on the sacrifices that many white people paid in the ending of the slavery. The underground railroad would probably be a bit more conspicuous if it was only black people running it

    3. Not all whites owned slaves. The ability to run a plantation was for the elite (just as it is today). Some random families had a slave or two on a farm but not all whites agreed with the practice of slave owning.

    With those things said, i wanted to be clear about the silver spoon metaphor I used. I was not saying that because you are white that your some what financially wealthy. The metaphor was meant to illustrate that you have the benefit of being oblivious. This is what many people call the benefit of "white privilege". You see when a crime is committed and the culprit is brown or black...that becomes the defining moment for that race. I.E. crimes committed by people of color wearing baggy clothing...all people of color wearing baggy clothing are suspicious. Boston Bombing done by Europeans wearing backpacks and hats..... I promise you that they won't ever start profiling young white men with book bags and backwards hats. This is what I meant by the silver spoon. It's the ability of society to view you as an individual and me as responsible for every member of my race.

    Also I would like to add that many of those that fought and died during the civil war did not do it because of their belief in freedom and equality. A wise man once said that "a war has never been fought over people" it's always about money. The civil war was no different. How do I know? When Lincoln had an opportunity to truly free the slaves, he freed only those under southern control. Slaves in Maryland and other Northern states were not freed. He did this to damage the South's economy as a rash of slaves abandoning plantations would cripple the south who relied on their backs to keep afloat. That would be akin to Obama saying that all the factory workers in North Korea are free to do what they want. He has no control of N. Korea and Lincoln had no control of the south, which at that time had its own Money, President, Congress and constitution. It's one of histories biggest lies.

    With all that said, I don't think that white people are up to hold black people back. Few black people really think so. I think however, that there are policies on the books that hearken back from an older time that give you preferential treatment ( see the death penalty; the majority of prosecutors being white males). The danger lies in doing nothing and not being socially aware that these issues exist. Not realizing that war on Drugs is just a re-branding of the pig laws of the 1900s.

    While many things have changed in the past 50 years, what hasn't is that you have a group of people in this country without a true history, culture, language, name etc. That to me is one of the causes of much turbulence. A tree without roots cannot stand. Issues like these will never resolve because that history is gone. It may not mean a lot to you to be able to point back and guess if you are of English, Scottish, or Swedish ancestry but you at-least know that you name is a name of your people. I'm not even going to bring up the division in complexion that is tearing the black community apart due to the preferential treatment given to light-skinned black people in the past and present. I for one will say we may never have a dark-skinned president ( it might not matter to you but it means a lot to those than understand where this nation truly is). I say all of this to say, although it has been 50 years and major hurdles have been crossed, there is a very long way to go. look at this cycle

    The poor turns alcohol and drugs to solve their problems -----> This increases the crime rate in the poor to fix their dependence ------> Profiling in the poor community increase ------> This leads to more poor people being arrested, sentenced and stripped of the opportunity to get a job that would remove them out of poverty ------> They stay poor and turn to drugs and alcohol to solve the difficulty of daily life.

    The war on drugs is just a way to keep the poor poorer and the rich wealthy. It's a social economic policy but it unfairly strike the black community because the average black person is at a lower social economic level than the average white person.

    Thanks again for the discussion. It's been great.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    With those things said, i wanted to be clear about the silver spoon metaphor I used. I was not saying that because you are white that your some what financially wealthy. The metaphor was meant to illustrate that you have the benefit of being oblivious. This is what many people call the benefit of "white privilege". You see when a crime is committed and the culprit is brown or black...that becomes the defining moment for that race. I.E. crimes committed by people of color wearing baggy clothing...all people of color wearing baggy clothing are suspicious.
    I see what you are saying and appreciate what you are saying. That being said, the profile has less to do with the color than the images that are portrayed by what they are wearing. I can assure you that when I was growing up a leather jacket and multiple tattoos would get a white guy profiled in a heartbeat. A white guy on a Harley with a hells Angels jacket is going to get checked out just as readily as a black guy with a hoodie and pants around his knees. How many black men walking down the street with horn rimmed glasses, a pocket protector and chemistry books do you see? .
    If the black community wants to change their perception then they need to start to address the image they portray. I don't think Bill Cosby, Oprah or other black people get unfairly profiled and I have some close friends that I have known for decades who carry themselves in a professional manner and have no problems with employment or incarceration. They would have not had those same luxuries 40-50 years ago. I am not saying they have it as easy as a whitey with a trust fund but the opportunity is there and the glass ceiling is now reduced to saran wrap. Still there but not nearly as hard to break through if you work at it.


    Boston Bombing done by Europeans wearing backpacks and hats..... I promise you that they won't ever start profiling young white men with book bags and backwards hats. This is what I meant by the silver spoon. It's the ability of society to view you as an individual and me as responsible for every member of my race.
    Actually, if you read the news you would see the NFL and other places have now started to ban backpacks and I bet a white guy showing up at the airport with a pressure cooker with wires hanging out is going to get the once over.

    Also I would like to add that many of those that fought and died during the civil war did not do it because of their belief in freedom and equality. A wise man once said that "a war has never been fought over people" it's always about money.
    The only people in in for the money are the ones supplying the arms and the supplies. If you think the soldiers are in it for the money I would have to disagree.



    The civil war was no different. How do I know? When Lincoln had an opportunity to truly free the slaves, he freed only those under southern control. Slaves in Maryland and other Northern states were not freed. He did this to damage the South's economy as a rash of slaves abandoning plantations would cripple the south who relied on their backs to keep afloat. That would be akin to Obama saying that all the factory workers in North Korea are free to do what they want. He has no control of N. Korea and Lincoln had no control of the south, which at that time had its own Money, President, Congress and constitution. It's one of histories biggest lies.

    With all that said, I don't think that white people are up to hold black people back. Few black people really think so. I think however, that there are policies on the books that hearken back from an older time that give you preferential treatment ( see the death penalty; the majority of prosecutors being white males). The danger lies in doing nothing and not being socially aware that these issues exist. Not realizing that war on Drugs is just a re-branding of the pig laws of the 1900s.
    First- let's tackle the prosecutor statement. What you said may be true but it isn't that way because they only take applications from white men. If you want more black prosecutors then the community needs to stress to their children that they should grow up to be lawyer, judges and civil servants and not the next Tone Loc. That is something that the black community has every chance to change if they choose to do so.


    While many things have changed in the past 50 years, what hasn't is that you have a group of people in this country without a true history, culture, language, name etc. That to me is one of the causes of much turbulence. A tree without roots cannot stand. Issues like these will never resolve because that history is gone. It may not mean a lot to you to be able to point back and guess if you are of English, Scottish, or Swedish ancestry but you at-least know that you name is a name of your people.
    That is an interesting point and I have to admit I am not sure what you men by it. I know my heritage which is of European descent but I also know that with every passing generation those roots run shallower and broader. My grandparents on one side were full blown German and the other side were full blown Norwegian and they certainly had culinary traditions like Lefse, Lutefisk, Sauerkraut, Beer etc and they spoke the native language among friend(although not well) but in the end they were Americans and each generation is diluted by different nationalities and heritage is of less importance. In my humble opinion you and I are not Norwegian, Not German, Not African but we are American and THAT is the roots and culture that should be embraced, taught and what you should strive to be.



    I'm not even going to bring up the division in complexion that is tearing the black community apart due to the preferential treatment given to light-skinned black people in the past and present. I for one will say we may never have a dark-skinned president ( it might not matter to you but it means a lot to those than understand where this nation truly is).
    Forgive me if I am a bit naive to the current Presidents particular tone. How exactly do you gauge how black skin is? At any rate it may be just as likely that happens as a woman is elected.



    I say all of this to say, although it has been 50 years and major hurdles have been crossed, there is a very long way to go. look at this cycle
    There is always more to be done. Push for those changes, enjoy the ones that have taken place and remember how much better it is now than it was.


    The poor turns alcohol and drugs to solve their problems -----> This increases the crime rate in the poor to fix their dependence ------> Profiling in the poor community increase ------> This leads to more poor people being arrested, sentenced and stripped of the opportunity to get a job that would remove them out of poverty ------> They stay poor and turn to drugs and alcohol to solve the difficulty of daily life.
    That is true no matter what the skin color is and there are communities of White, Black, and hispanic that all fall into that category. The ones that refuse to accept it eventually crawl out. It may not happen in one generation but it will happen.

    The war on drugs is just a way to keep the poor poorer and the rich wealthy. It's a social economic policy but it unfairly strike the black community because the average black person is at a lower social economic level than the average white person.
    I am no fan of the war on drugs.

  4. #24
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    Some great points, Kevin....my favorites:
    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    1. I do not put all white people in the same boat. It's just a idiotic as putting all black people in the same boat. It's simply ill inform.

    2. I am very much so educated on the sacrifices that many white people paid in the ending of the slavery. The underground railroad would probably be a bit more conspicuous if it was only black people running it

    3. Not all whites owned slaves. The ability to run a plantation was for the elite (just as it is today). Some random families had a slave or two on a farm but not all whites agreed with the practice of slave owning.
    __________________________________________________ _____________

    Also I would like to add that many of those that fought and died during the civil war did not do it because of their belief in freedom and equality. A wise man once said that "a war has never been fought over people" it's always about money. The civil war was no different. How do I know? When Lincoln had an opportunity to truly free the slaves, he freed only those under southern control. Slaves in Maryland and other Northern states were not freed. He did this to damage the South's economy as a rash of slaves abandoning plantations would cripple the south who relied on their backs to keep afloat. That would be akin to Obama saying that all the factory workers in North Korea are free to do what they want. He has no control of N. Korea and Lincoln had no control of the south, which at that time had its own Money, President, Congress and constitution. It's one of histories biggest lies.
    __________________________________________________ ________________

    While many things have changed in the past 50 years, what hasn't is that you have a group of people in this country without a true history, culture, language, name etc. That to me is one of the causes of much turbulence. A tree without roots cannot stand. Issues like these will never resolve because that history is gone. It may not mean a lot to you to be able to point back and guess if you are of English, Scottish, or Swedish ancestry but you at-least know that you name is a name of your people. I'm not even going to bring up the division in complexion that is tearing the black community apart due to the preferential treatment given to light-skinned black people in the past and present. I for one will say we may never have a dark-skinned president ( it might not matter to you but it means a lot to those than understand where this nation truly is). I say all of this to say, although it has been 50 years and major hurdles have been crossed, there is a very long way to go. look at this cycle
    I COMPLETELY agree with the last two paragraphs I selected above.

    I also agree with Tad that there is some "1960's mentality" due to age...but I'd think we're a bit more 80's-90's than 60's. My age and experience ABSOLUTELY colors the way I see the world.

    I will question, however, your targeting of the war on drugs as a vehicle for perpetuating the pig laws. I fall back to my earlier assertion that if you don't want to be targeted by a certain law, don't resemble it's intended target. Since none of the laws specifically target anyone by color, I am specifically challenging the Black community to distance itself from that behavior.

    When I was younger (and thinner), I worked for a Private Security Company that specialized in Corporate Protection (Bodyguards) and High-Risk investment properties (Drug and gang neighborhood apartment complexes - classified as such because that was what we would predominantly find). I spent 3 years working those neighborhoods, and it was depressing to realize that my impact was the same as a fist in a bucket of water. But what struck me hardest was when Community Leaders would come to me and ask me to go easy on certain guys, stating that they were simply "trying to feed their families".

    In short, there was a community wide acceptance of "Criminal" behavior and activity. The moral compass of the community was so far skewed from what "I" was raised with.

    So, how do WE change this? The answer can't be to change the laws and make drugs permissible - except MJ maybe. But how do we get everyone on the the same page?

    When speaking about Trayvon Martin, Barrack Obama said something about the need for us, as Americans, to let young Black men know that they are important. HOW DO WE DO THAT!!!! How do we get them to turn their energies into pursuits that are beneficial to themselves AND to their communities? How do we get them to let go of the hate of yesterday, and look forward to the hope of tomorrow?

    That's the billion dollar question.

    Caine

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    I see what you are saying and appreciate what you are saying. That being said, the profile has less to do with the color than the images that are portrayed by what they are wearing. I can assure you that when I was growing up a leather jacket and multiple tattoos would get a white guy profiled in a heartbeat. A white guy on a Harley with a hells Angels jacket is going to get checked out just as readily as a black guy with a hoodie and pants around his knees. How many black men walking down the street with horn rimmed glasses, a pocket protector and chemistry books do you see? .
    I didn't think about that comparison. However the difference in that is one was a signal that this person was in a biker gang, while the other is clothing that a lot of kids wear. Now do I have a problem with profiling someone with a blood bandana? No because he has displayed that is part of a gang.

    In the 70's there was this organization known as the Nation on Islam that wore suits and said glasses. It didn't stop the FBI from profiling them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    If the black community wants to change their perception then they need to start to address the image they portray. I don't think Bill Cosby, Oprah or other black people get unfairly profiled and I have some close friends that I have known for decades who carry themselves in a professional manner and have no problems with employment or incarceration. They would have not had those same luxuries 40-50 years ago. I am not saying they have it as easy as a whitey with a trust fund but the opportunity is there and the glass ceiling is now reduced to saran wrap. Still there but not nearly as hard to break through if you work at it.
    The same Oprah that got ushered out of Hermes because she wasn't recognized? I think some people feel like they shouldn't have to conform to be judged as "safe".

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Actually, if you read the news you would see the NFL and other places have now started to ban backpacks and I bet a white guy showing up at the airport with a pressure cooker with wires hanging out is going to get the once over.
    I don't think those two examples are connected to what I was saying. Yes checking bags isn't really profiling it's common sense. That's different than the police seeing a white kid in Boston with a bookbag and his hat backwards and stopping him because he might be a terrorist. That my friend will never happen because I believe there is a clear ability to separate the crazies. However, if my name Muhummad Akaback Siedh...my chances of being detained at custom jumps to the table. Hell just check of the Rolling Stones issue of the Boston Bombings where they put the living suspect on the cover like he was a rock god. Different treatment than the most would get.


    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    The only people in in for the money are the ones supplying the arms and the supplies. If you think the soldiers are in it for the money I would have to disagree.
    Not what I said. I said wars are fought over money not people. Soliders are pawns on the chestboard of life. I was accurate that many were drafted. However, i don't want to tarnish the image of those that freely chose to fight because it was the right thing to do. However, I doubt most of those listed did so for equality. Most of the northerners were poor Irish men fresh off the boats who were forced to fight. Most of the Southerners were poor southern boys who were handed a rifle and forced to fight to "defend their lands and way of life". These people made no profit out of the war. However the fight to to control the south's cash crop and the North's textile mills/ tariffs was the cause of the war

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    First- let's tackle the prosecutor statement. What you said may be true but it isn't that way because they only take applications from white men. If you want more black prosecutors then the community needs to stress to their children that they should grow up to be lawyer, judges and civil servants and not the next Tone Loc. That is something that the black community has every chance to change if they choose to do so.
    Tone Loc? You are telling your age : ). The average black kid doesn't want to grow up to be a rapper. Little kids dream of fame. No different than the fact that a lot of suburban kids form their own band and dream of becoming rockstars. Don't let the media tell you that all we want to do is play ball and rap. The difference between the two is that this suburban kid goes to a school where learning is cultivated by newer computers, field trips, ipads, while urban kid, goes to a school where the standard of excellence is less. A lot of that has to do with how political zoning is handled and the taxes paid, (surprise, surprise). I didn't grow up where rapping was an option (something with me being Trinidadian). I did however, go to the best school in NYC, and was lucky enough to spend a year on scholarship at Exeter academy (mom couldn't keep up with cost outside of tuition/Room). Phillips Exeter Academy | Home. The ignorant dream of hitting it big, most dream of going to college and having a good career.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    That is an interesting point and I have to admit I am not sure what you men by it. I know my heritage which is of European descent but I also know that with every passing generation those roots run shallower and broader. My grandparents on one side were full blown German and the other side were full blown Norwegian and they certainly had culinary traditions like Lefse, Lutefisk, Sauerkraut, Beer etc and they spoke the native language among friend(although not well) but in the end they were Americans and each generation is diluted by different nationalities and heritage is of less importance. In my humble opinion you and I are not Norwegian, Not German, Not African but we are American and THAT is the roots and culture that should be embraced, taught and what you should strive to be.
    Take Black history month. What did you learn about it during your days at school. Harriet Tubman, Malcom X, MLK, and a handful of other names. All after slavery. Nothing is taught before slavery. There is a subtle sense of control when you tell people that you were nothing before being slaves. A true education of black history should included some of the advances prior to slavery. Yet this is never taught, hinted at, brushed over Nada. I believe when you subtled tell people you come from nothing, they strive to be nothing. The advances of Timbuktu is enough to give a day's worth of class time. This also disconnects other students because there are only so many times I am going to care about a report on Harriet Tubman. Knowing your history gives you a sense of self worth

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    Forgive me if I am a bit naive to the current Presidents particular tone. How exactly do you gauge how black skin is? At any rate it may be just as likely that happens as a woman is elected.
    Don't worry. I was reading a study that explained that people find it hard to distinguish the differences in races that are not their own. I personally think that it's clear to see how vastly different a different 1 black person can look from another, the NYPD argues differently(i kid, i kid). I wish I can find the article as it's a great read. However, Obama would be considered a lightskinned black person. During slavery, those slaves were told that they were better than darkskinned slaves and they were given positions and possessions to show this. Some of this had to do with the fact that they were some master's illegitimate love child but others regardless of the reason, the divide still stands today. Society advances lighter skinned blacks more readily than dark skinned blacks (some say its because people are naturally drawn to those that look more readily like them and that being a dark skinned black is as inconspicuous as nails on a chalk board). These are things not really talked about outside of black circles and that a lot of white people are oblivious. It doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    There is always more to be done. Push for those changes, enjoy the ones that have taken place and remember how much better it is now than it was.

    That is true no matter what the skin color is and there are communities of White, Black, and hispanic that all fall into that category. The ones that refuse to accept it eventually crawl out. It may not happen in one generation but it will happen.

    I am no fan of the war on drugs.
    I do. All I can do is educated my children, family and friends and hope for the best.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Some great points, Kevin....my favorites:


    I COMPLETELY agree with the last two paragraphs I selected above.

    I also agree with Tad that there is some "1960's mentality" due to age...but I'd think we're a bit more 80's-90's than 60's. My age and experience ABSOLUTELY colors the way I see the world.

    I will question, however, your targeting of the war on drugs as a vehicle for perpetuating the pig laws. I fall back to my earlier assertion that if you don't want to be targeted by a certain law, don't resemble it's intended target. Since none of the laws specifically target anyone by color, I am specifically challenging the Black community to distance itself from that behavior.

    When I was younger (and thinner), I worked for a Private Security Company that specialized in Corporate Protection (Bodyguards) and High-Risk investment properties (Drug and gang neighborhood apartment complexes - classified as such because that was what we would predominantly find). I spent 3 years working those neighborhoods, and it was depressing to realize that my impact was the same as a fist in a bucket of water. But what struck me hardest was when Community Leaders would come to me and ask me to go easy on certain guys, stating that they were simply "trying to feed their families".

    In short, there was a community wide acceptance of "Criminal" behavior and activity. The moral compass of the community was so far skewed from what "I" was raised with.

    So, how do WE change this? The answer can't be to change the laws and make drugs permissible - except MJ maybe. But how do we get everyone on the the same page?

    When speaking about Trayvon Martin, Barrack Obama said something about the need for us, as Americans, to let young Black men know that they are important. HOW DO WE DO THAT!!!! How do we get them to turn their energies into pursuits that are beneficial to themselves AND to their communities? How do we get them to let go of the hate of yesterday, and look forward to the hope of tomorrow?

    That's the billion dollar question.

    Caine
    I'll respond to this soon caine... but I have a lot of work to do.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post


    I do. All I can do is educated my children, family and friends and hope for the best.
    See- there is hope. I just saw a cat and dog walking by holding hands. ( I just hope they aren't gay)






    (That was a joke)

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Floyd View Post
    See- there is hope. I just saw a cat and dog walking by holding hands. ( I just hope they aren't gay)






    (That was a joke)
    We're talking Race here....sexuality is in the Tarvaris jackson thread....



    Caine

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Some great points, Kevin....my favorites:


    I COMPLETELY agree with the last two paragraphs I selected above.

    I also agree with Tad that there is some "1960's mentality" due to age...but I'd think we're a bit more 80's-90's than 60's. My age and experience ABSOLUTELY colors the way I see the world.

    I will question, however, your targeting of the war on drugs as a vehicle for perpetuating the pig laws. I fall back to my earlier assertion that if you don't want to be targeted by a certain law, don't resemble it's intended target. Since none of the laws specifically target anyone by color, I am specifically challenging the Black community to distance itself from that behavior.

    When I was younger (and thinner), I worked for a Private Security Company that specialized in Corporate Protection (Bodyguards) and High-Risk investment properties (Drug and gang neighborhood apartment complexes - classified as such because that was what we would predominantly find). I spent 3 years working those neighborhoods, and it was depressing to realize that my impact was the same as a fist in a bucket of water. But what struck me hardest was when Community Leaders would come to me and ask me to go easy on certain guys, stating that they were simply "trying to feed their families".

    In short, there was a community wide acceptance of "Criminal" behavior and activity. The moral compass of the community was so far skewed from what "I" was raised with.

    So, how do WE change this? The answer can't be to change the laws and make drugs permissible - except MJ maybe. But how do we get everyone on the the same page?

    When speaking about Trayvon Martin, Barrack Obama said something about the need for us, as Americans, to let young Black men know that they are important. HOW DO WE DO THAT!!!! How do we get them to turn their energies into pursuits that are beneficial to themselves AND to their communities? How do we get them to let go of the hate of yesterday, and look forward to the hope of tomorrow?

    That's the billion dollar question.

    Caine
    Caine,
    The reason I say the war on drugs are similar to the pig laws of the 1900s is because the pig laws while it didn't have a race attached to it, was set up to specifically target African Americans (Walking on train tracks when that was the only way to get from town to town). The war on drugs should be aimed at the big buyers of narcotics, those that own boats and planes to bring the product in. Instead it focuses on the small time fools that are easily replace and have to value in the grand scheme of things. That's like trying to stop a roach infestation by killing baby roaches. You want to stop a roach infestation, you have to kill pregnant female roaches. It makes no sense and anyone with a brain can tell you it is just for show. What is does do however, is criminalize an addiction for millions of people. Remove them from the system, keep them at lower pay wages and remove their ability to vote. I've lived in Brooklyn NY, and in many suburban areas and I can tell you that people everywhere smoke weed. The difference is a profiling of the poor to keep them poor, unfortunately most of the poor profiled happen to be black. There is a natural camofauge that poorer whites are allowed that poorer blacks are not give. It doesn't prevent profiling but it damn well helps.

    About the community leaders and how to fix the problem. You can't. It is a natural side effect of capitalism. Poorer communities ( white, black, purple) are skewed towards being sympathetic towards crime. Why? For several reasons. First and foremost poverty breeds desperation and desperation breeds crime. Second, capitalism is set up in such a way that not everyone can win. You have to have losers in capitalism. Third when you are in a poor community that we already stated creates crime, the people of the community probably know someone who is in that life and tend to be more sympathetic to the criminals because they can identify with them.

    The real issue is the decriminalization of the black male. You want these kids to stop feeling like they have no hope, start giving them some. Give them real schools that foster a real education. Stop tying teachers hands with retard every child must pass laws. Provided schools with the books they need and not ones that say the US has 47 states. Lastly, stop judging us as guilty because we are black and males. The Trayvon Martin case hit home to a lot of people because a lot of individuals are tired of being followed in stores, in malls. The assumptions people make about you suck and are off basis since the average shoplifter is a a 50 year old white woman. Until society stops painting us as attackers of white purity and hope, things will never get better. It demoralizes an individual and when paired with many of the things I have already mentioned in this thread, it creates an environment where "fuck it I'm going to do me" exist.

    In closing, I have never lived a day as a white man on this earth and I don't know what it's like. I doubt it's all sunshine and roses because we are all on this same rock hurling thru space at a gazillion miles an hour. I do know that as a black man, I have to learn actively fit myself into white society to survive. I have to be the lone black guy in a room full of white people. The lone black guy at my job. To know what mousse and gel is for is a necessity. I can't just ignore things I will never need to know because they do not affect me directly. However, many white people can ignore black culture (not hip hop culture) because there is no need to learn it. How many times have any of you been the lone white guy at a party of black people. Would you know how to fit in? Would you start speaking slang like Bro, and Sup?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    Caine,
    The reason I say the war on drugs are similar to the pig laws of the 1900s is because the pig laws while it didn't have a race attached to it, was set up to specifically target African Americans (Walking on train tracks when that was the only way to get from town to town). The war on drugs should be aimed at the big buyers of narcotics, those that own boats and planes to bring the product in. Instead it focuses on the small time fools that are easily replace and have to value in the grand scheme of things. That's like trying to stop a roach infestation by killing baby roaches. You want to stop a roach infestation, you have to kill pregnant female roaches. It makes no sense and anyone with a brain can tell you it is just for show. What is does do however, is criminalize an addiction for millions of people. Remove them from the system, keep them at lower pay wages and remove their ability to vote. I've lived in Brooklyn NY, and in many suburban areas and I can tell you that people everywhere smoke weed. The difference is a profiling of the poor to keep them poor, unfortunately most of the poor profiled happen to be black. There is a natural camofauge that poorer whites are allowed that poorer blacks are not give. It doesn't prevent profiling but it damn well helps.
    I agree with the above. I think, honestly, that my initial question was because it appeared like you were advocating abandoning the "WOD" by decriminalizing...I think that would be a mistake. I do agree, however, that the PROSECUTION of the WOD has been a joke. We know where the drugs are, we know how to stop them. If it weren't for the millions of dollars involved, we probably would.

    I also agree that it is sad that the true victim here is the Minority communities. But, since I doubt that the WOD will go away (It's a political buzz phrase that old white ladies get jazzed up about and vote for), I fear that the only solution will be for the Black community to extricate itself from this through force of will. This connects to the rest later...

    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    About the community leaders and how to fix the problem. You can't. It is a natural side effect of capitalism. Poorer communities ( white, black, purple) are skewed towards being sympathetic towards crime. Why? For several reasons. First and foremost poverty breeds desperation and desperation breeds crime. Second, capitalism is set up in such a way that not everyone can win. You have to have losers in capitalism. Third when you are in a poor community that we already stated creates crime, the people of the community probably know someone who is in that life and tend to be more sympathetic to the criminals because they can identify with them.
    It's not just capitalism, however. I believe that entitlements have done more to derail the advancement of Black society than anything else. Instead of incentive to succeed/achieve, I saw apathy. After all, why care when "the state will pay for it". A line I heard too many times.


    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    The real issue is the decriminalization of the black male. You want these kids to stop feeling like they have no hope, start giving them some. Give them real schools that foster a real education. Stop tying teachers hands with retard every child must pass laws. Provided schools with the books they need and not ones that say the US has 47 states. Lastly, stop judging us as guilty because we are black and males. The Trayvon Martin case hit home to a lot of people because a lot of individuals are tired of being followed in stores, in malls. The assumptions people make about you suck and are off basis since the average shoplifter is a a 50 year old white woman. Until society stops painting us as attackers of white purity and hope, things will never get better. It demoralizes an individual and when paired with many of the things I have already mentioned in this thread, it creates an environment where "fuck it I'm going to do me" exist.
    Couple of hot button items there.

    I somewhat agree on the school issue. trouble is, even giving them the schools/resources doesn't seem to do it. The city of Beloit, WI is 10 minutes from janesville (Where I live). Beloit has a higher minority population, and a higher per capita expenditure per student...yet they consistently test BELOW Janesville.

    Study looks at spending, demographics and test scores - Beloit Daily News: News

    The problem, IMHO, is the fact that the communities involved don't seem to care. After all, as I stated above, "The state will pay for it". You get paid a stipend - whether it be AFDC or TANF - for HAVING children. The state covers the DELIVERY of the children (through Medicaid). The State pays for rent assistance (WIC in WI). You can even get a FREE cell phone.

    So....where is the incentive?

    Children raised in this system see it as normal. And when their friends are all raised in it too, then there is no stigma....which leads to acceptance, complacency, and, finally, expectancy.

    How do we BREAK that cycle without destroying the communities that have come to depend on it?

    Yes, we (Whites) need stop assuming that all black males in a hoodie want to kill/rape/rob us...but at the same time, young black males in hoodies then need to stop committing crimes. The profile exists because it has proven accurate.

    I guess what I'm driving at is that if the Black community wants to be treated better it has to ACT better. When I was younger, I had long hair, ear rings, and looked like a Heavy Metal Hero....I got a LOT of nervous looks, got pulled over by the Police, and was stereotyped based upon HOW I LOOKED.

    Now, I have short hair, no piercings, and dress like every other fat, middle aged, middle class professional. I get left alone. I still listen to Metal

    When the statistics say that 55% of violent crime is committed by 12.5% of the population, people get frightened. You said, "Until society stops painting us as attackers of white purity and hope, things will never get better."...and I will again state that society does that because there is statistical evidence to do so.

    It's a tug-o-war, where it seems that each side wants the other to give in first. We (most Whites) get that most blacks aren't out to rape and kill us...or anyone else. That, aside from a better tan than we have, you want pretty much the same things - primarily, a chance for self-respect, and a better life for your kids.

    And I will also say that we - the White community - need to step on those in our group who abuse and/or victimize others for reasons of race. We too need to do more...but we also need to feel that you - the Black community - are pulling WITH us, and aren't simply along for the ride.

    Quote Originally Posted by kevoncox View Post
    In closing, I have never lived a day as a white man on this earth and I don't know what it's like. I doubt it's all sunshine and roses because we are all on this same rock hurling thru space at a gazillion miles an hour. I do know that as a black man, I have to learn actively fit myself into white society to survive. I have to be the lone black guy in a room full of white people. The lone black guy at my job. To know what mousse and gel is for is a necessity. I can't just ignore things I will never need to know because they do not affect me directly. However, many white people can ignore black culture (not hip hop culture) because there is no need to learn it. How many times have any of you been the lone white guy at a party of black people. Would you know how to fit in? Would you start speaking slang like Bro, and Sup?
    I have been the lone white guy. I didn't fit in...and I knew I wouldn't. So instead I focused on allowing those I was surrounded by celebrate what made them unique, and by doing so, they focused upon what made us the same. I didn't slang it up because I felt that would be demeaning. I wasn't going to pretend I was something I wasn't, but I also didn't rigidly cling to what made ME different and demand acceptance.

    The only detriment to the process was that I was the one with the uniform, the badge,and the gun. Elements that, I believe, altered the equation.

    I will say, however, that I returned to the neighborhood several times while out of uniform, and unarmed. Once to take two young males who had done very well in school for a celebratory outing of pizza and lazer-tag (Yup...it was awhile ago), and once to show off my new born twin daughters. Everyone knew who I was - everyone knew what I represented - and I had no trouble (Nor did I expect any).

    I guess it goes back to celebrating what makes us the same. I was proud of my newborn daughters, and I was sharing that joy with the people I had met, and who's children I regularly interacted with. Our color didn't matter - we were all parents. And we all wanted our kids to grow up happy, healthy, and better than us. And, FYI, several of those mothers had kids that I had helped bust and send to jail....but always for what they DID, never for who they WERE.

    Caine

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