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  1. #21
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    Re: Request to all American NFL Fans from a Canadian NFL fan

    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "Garland" wrote:
    Honest question becaue I am not sure. But isn't the CFL pretty much strapped for cash anyways? I thought that The CFL was pretty much headed to being gone if there was not some radical changes and interest made inn the league. This was one factor in the NFL having some games there so that more of the interent ion the NFL could be generated, and one reaspn why we have seen a big influx of "Big Name" NFL players getting deals for the CFL(Granted they were bust in the NFL, But you get the idea) IF the puush intp canada really dopes happen I see it more of absorbing the CFL, and putting it under the NFL umbrella either as expansion teams or using the CFL into the new NFL Euro,
    instead of just pushing it out.
    I think since the CFL infastructure already exists, the NFL will eventually absorb the CFL, filtering down to
    4-6 new teams for the NFL... that's just my opinion, but it seems to make the most sense.

    That, or the idea of mirroring the NFL Europe... but I don't think that will happen.
    The NFL absorbing the CFL has been brought up before.
    But I think most Canadians are vehemently opposed to the idea.
    Plus it would be very good for the NFL in terms of extending its revenue base, but bad for the CFL.
    Of course, if you really wanted to get a conspiracy theory going (just for you C Mac), then it would be a very good move for the NFL for the Bills to move to toronto - it could spur enough of an economic strain on the CFL to make its acquisition plausible.
    Wouldn't adding another 4-6 teams to the NFL furthur dilute the talent level?
    It seems to me it is in the best interests of the NFL to not expand the number of teams any furthur.


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  2. #22
    C Mac D's Avatar
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    Re: Request to all American NFL Fans from a Canadian NFL fan

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "NodakPaul" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "Garland" wrote:
    Honest question becaue I am not sure. But isn't the CFL pretty much strapped for cash anyways? I thought that The CFL was pretty much headed to being gone if there was not some radical changes and interest made inn the league. This was one factor in the NFL having some games there so that more of the interent ion the NFL could be generated, and one reaspn why we have seen a big influx of "Big Name" NFL players getting deals for the CFL(Granted they were bust in the NFL, But you get the idea) IF the puush intp canada really dopes happen I see it more of absorbing the CFL, and putting it under the NFL umbrella either as expansion teams or using the CFL into the new NFL Euro,
    instead of just pushing it out.
    I think since the CFL infastructure already exists, the NFL will eventually absorb the CFL, filtering down to
    4-6 new teams for the NFL... that's just my opinion, but it seems to make the most sense.

    That, or the idea of mirroring the NFL Europe... but I don't think that will happen.
    The NFL absorbing the CFL has been brought up before.
    But I think most Canadians are vehemently opposed to the idea.
    Plus it would be very good for the NFL in terms of extending its revenue base, but bad for the CFL.
    Of course, if you really wanted to get a conspiracy theory going (just for you C Mac), then it would be a very good move for the NFL for the Bills to move to toronto - it could spur enough of an economic strain on the CFL to make its acquisition plausible.
    Wouldn't adding another 4-6 teams to the NFL furthur dilute the talent level?
    It seems to me it is in the best interests of the NFL to not expand the number of teams any furthur.
    Maybe not in the US, but international growth is definitely in the foresight for the NFL.

    Take the NBA for example, the rest of the world is developing better talent than we have here back in the states. Our "Dream Team" can't even win the gold medal anymore. We may see the same happen in football as well, once it becomes a more international sport.

    To say that the NFL does not want to expand the number of teams any further is silly, of course they do. You just need to look at the bigger picture.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  3. #23
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    Re: Request to all American NFL Fans from a Canadian NFL fan

    "C" wrote:
    To say that the NFL does not want to expand the number of teams any further is silly, of course they do. You just need to look at the bigger picture.
    I don't see the correlation between basketball and the NFL.
    The NBA has not expanded internationally yet has seen basketball popularity exponentially increase worldwide.
    MLB has not expanded internationally either, but is very popular in some areas of the world.
    What makes you think the NFL would go about it differently to acheive the same goals?
    Economically speaking it seems to make sense to create those international fans, but not to create international teams.

    If they were really interested in creating more teams there would be an expansion team in LA right now.
    I don't think they want to because the way the divisions and conferences are set up now is perfect.


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  4. #24
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    Re: Request to all American NFL Fans from a Canadian NFL fan

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    To say that the NFL does not want to expand the number of teams any further is silly, of course they do. You just need to look at the bigger picture.
    I don't see the correlation between basketball and the NFL.
    The NBA has not expanded internationally yet has seen basketball popularity exponentially increase worldwide.
    MLB has not expanded internationally either, but is very popular in some areas of the world.
    What makes you think the NFL would go about it differently to acheive the same goals?
    Economically speaking it seems to make sense to create those international fans, but not to create international teams.
    You're missing my point, correct... NBA hasn't expanded internationally physically, but basketball is much more of an international sport than American Football is. I don't see Football expanding around the world, such as MLB and NBA did, I think the only way the NFL will see that sort of success is by playing games overseas and eventually starting new franchises in other countries.

    I mean, you can sit here and disagree with me all you want... but it's simple business and that's what's going to happen.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  5. #25
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    Re: Request to all American NFL Fans from a Canadian NFL fan

    "C" wrote:
    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    To say that the NFL does not want to expand the number of teams any further is silly, of course they do. You just need to look at the bigger picture.
    I don't see the correlation between basketball and the NFL.
    The NBA has not expanded internationally yet has seen basketball popularity exponentially increase worldwide.
    MLB has not expanded internationally either, but is very popular in some areas of the world.
    What makes you think the NFL would go about it differently to acheive the same goals?
    Economically speaking it seems to make sense to create those international fans, but not to create international teams.
    You're missing my point, correct... NBA hasn't expanded internationally physically, but basketball is much more of an international sport than American Football is. I don't see Football expanding around the world, such as MLB and NBA did, I think the only way the NFL will see that sort of success is by playing games overseas and eventually starting new franchises in other countries.

    I mean, you can sit here and disagree with me all you want... but it's simple business and that's what's going to happen.
    So basically you're going off you're gut feeling that American football won't catch on where basketball and baseball, even hockey (which were all exclusively North American sports in the same way football is) has?

    Your entitled to your opinion but from a business perspective it doesn't make sense.
    The NFL is the most successful league in the world right now why would they try and tamper with the quality of the on field product (by diluting the talent) and by creating a greater financial burden on owners and players by forcing them to consistently fly internationally?

    Combine that with the fact that there are absolutely no indications that the league wishes to expand, and I'm not sure how you're drawing these conclusions...


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  6. #26
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    Re: Request to all American NFL Fans from a Canadian NFL fan

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    To say that the NFL does not want to expand the number of teams any further is silly, of course they do. You just need to look at the bigger picture.
    I don't see the correlation between basketball and the NFL.
    The NBA has not expanded internationally yet has seen basketball popularity exponentially increase worldwide.
    MLB has not expanded internationally either, but is very popular in some areas of the world.
    What makes you think the NFL would go about it differently to acheive the same goals?
    Economically speaking it seems to make sense to create those international fans, but not to create international teams.
    You're missing my point, correct... NBA hasn't expanded internationally physically, but basketball is much more of an international sport than American Football is. I don't see Football expanding around the world, such as MLB and NBA did, I think the only way the NFL will see that sort of success is by playing games overseas and eventually starting new franchises in other countries.

    I mean, you can sit here and disagree with me all you want... but it's simple business and that's what's going to happen.
    So basically you're going off you're gut feeling that American football won't catch on where basketball and baseball, even hockey (which were all exclusively North American sports in the same way football is) has?

    Your entitled to your opinion but from a business perspective it doesn't make sense.
    The NFL is the most successful league in the world right now why would they try and tamper with the quality of the on field product (by diluting the talent) and by creating a greater financial burden on owners and players by forcing them to consistently fly internationally?

    Combine that with the fact that there are absolutely no indications that the league wishes to expand, and I'm not sure how you're drawing these conclusions...
    Once again you're missing the point.

    You keep talking about the talent pool... correct, it would delude the US talent pool, but my point is once these sports have been globalized, we will see much bigger pool of talent than the US holds alone.

    Also, you're point doesn't really make sense because both the NBA and MLB have teams in Canada, and since we are talking about foreign counties (not continents, which is what North America is), it actually fits my argument perfectly.

    I'm not sure what business you are in, but usually global expansion and a larger consumer base is good for any company. If you think the NFL is simply playing games in Mexico City and London (not to mention Toronto...) just to humor themselves, you are greatly mistaken. How is that fact not an indication that the league wants to expand?! If anything, that is THE indication. There is a reason why this exact same conversation happened on PTO after the Giants-Dolphins game in London... because most people see how obvious the correlation is.

    Also, your argument about the NFL not wanting to fly players overseas... I don't think that will be a big issue... I mean, London to NYC is only slightly more expensive than NYC to San Fran... plus, in a league that makes well over a billion dollars a year, I don't think airplane tickets will be their main concern.
    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

  7. #27
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    Re: Request to all American NFL Fans from a Canadian NFL fan

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    do you think they might to better if they went somewhere like Calgary?
    No, it's a similar circumstance.
    The Stampeders are huge here (unlike the Argos in Toronto), but I think with most Canadian cities that have NHL franchises, hockey will always be #1.
    We don't have a large enough population (or stadium for that matter) to support an NFL franchise (at least Toronto has the facilities, somewhat)

    I don't think any other Canadian city other than Toronto could support the massive profits an NFL franchise is expected to produce (along with the 1+ billiion dollar stadium that would need to be built).
    I just don't think Toronto has shown it would be capable or willing to support and NFL franchise if it was even offered given their lackluster interest in football and competition from the NBA and NHL.
    So isn't that about $16.37 in Canadian ;D

  8. #28
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    Re: Request to all American NFL Fans from a Canadian NFL fan

    "C" wrote:
    Once again you're missing the point.

    You keep talking about the talent pool... correct, it would delude the US talent pool, but my point is once these sports have been globalized, we will see much bigger pool of talent than the US holds alone.

    Also, you're point doesn't really make sense because both the NBA and MLB have teams in Canada, and since we are talking about foreign counties (not continents, which is what North America is), it actually fits my argument perfectly.
    I acknowledge there is that risk of franchises in Canada, however I don't see it happening out of Toronto, for various reasons:
    1. Why would owners establish a franchise here when it will never be the #1 sport in whatever city they are putting it in?
    2. Why would owners establish a franchise here when it would require millions if not billions of dollars to build new stadiums that I assure you will not be publicly funded (at least to the extent required)
    3. Why would owners build such a stadium (that hold 80,000 people) when I can almost guarantee you it will not be full?
    4. Why would owners built in a less opportune international market when there remains much more attractive, profitable markets in the US?

    I'm not sure what business you are in, but usually global expansion and a larger consumer base is good for any company. If you think the NFL is simply playing games in Mexico City and London (not to mention Toronto...) just to humor themselves, you are greatly mistaken. How is that fact not an indication that the league wants to expand?!
    I have no doubt that building an international fan base is very profitable and is what the league is intending to do with thes international GAMES.
    However hosting goodwill games to spread the brand is not an indication that the league wants to permanently set up shop there.
    I do not see why you see that as an indication they want to put a franchise there.
    If anything they are trying to stir interest so more people tune in to the TV on Sundays and they can boost ad revenue, TV contracts and team apparel sales(which make the league more money than ticket prices anyway, at a much lower cost)

    Also, your argument about the NFL not wanting to fly players overseas... I don't think that will be a big issue... I mean, London to NYC is only slightly more expensive than NYC to San Fran... plus, in a league that makes well over a billion dollars a year, I don't think airplane tickets will be their main concern.
    It will be to the individual owners who have to pay for these flights.
    You just described the longest flight currently that players have to go on, but what about San Fran to London, or New York to Japan, Texas to Germany, etc. etc.
    Combine that with the impact that would have on the players and coaches (jet lag, less sleep and time for the families etc.).
    You're talking about hundreds of thousands of plane tickets a year, with rising fuel prices and overseas flights, that's not chump change.

    There is a reason that there are no major professional leagues that span such long distances.

    What it all comes down to is the notion that you see these international games as some sort of intention that the NFL plans permanent expansion internationally, despite no real evidence or statements.
    Despite the obvious signs pointing against expansion (lack of LA team, or any other team since the divisions were perfected after the Texans joined, despite the amazing success of the league). Why would you tinker with a model that has proven to be so successful presently?


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  9. #29
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    Re: Request to all American NFL Fans from a Canadian NFL fan

    "Garland" wrote:
    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    do you think they might to better if they went somewhere like Calgary?
    No, it's a similar circumstance.
    The Stampeders are huge here (unlike the Argos in Toronto), but I think with most Canadian cities that have NHL franchises, hockey will always be #1.
    We don't have a large enough population (or stadium for that matter) to support an NFL franchise (at least Toronto has the facilities, somewhat)

    I don't think any other Canadian city other than Toronto could support the massive profits an NFL franchise is expected to produce (along with the 1+ billiion dollar stadium that would need to be built).
    I just don't think Toronto has shown it would be capable or willing to support and NFL franchise if it was even offered given their lackluster interest in football and competition from the NBA and NHL.
    So isn't that about $16.37 in Canadian ;D
    Haha, I don't think the Canadian dollar is that strong.


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  10. #30
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    Re: Request to all American NFL Fans from a Canadian NFL fan

    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    Once again you're missing the point.

    You keep talking about the talent pool... correct, it would delude the US talent pool, but my point is once these sports have been globalized, we will see much bigger pool of talent than the US holds alone.

    Also, you're point doesn't really make sense because both the NBA and MLB have teams in Canada, and since we are talking about foreign counties (not continents, which is what North America is), it actually fits my argument perfectly.
    I acknowledge there is that risk of franchises in Canada, however I don't see it happening out of Toronto, for various reasons:
    1. Why would owners establish a franchise here when it will never be the #1 sport in whatever city they are putting it in?
    2. Why would owners establish a franchise here when it would require millions if not billions of dollars to build new stadiums that I assure you will not be publicly funded (at least to the extent required)
    3. Why would owners build such a stadium (that hold 80,000 people) when I can almost guarantee you it will not be full?
    4. Why would owners built in a less opportune international market when there remains much more attractive, profitable markets in the US?
    Just a couple quick notes, because I am done talking about this. What they are doing is testing markets out. Mexico City is the most densely populated city on the face of the earth... enough said.

    You're point #4... The US is no longer the "Attractive, Profitable" market you refer to it as... Many other countries are doing much better than us right now.


    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    I'm not sure what business you are in, but usually global expansion and a larger consumer base is good for any company. If you think the NFL is simply playing games in Mexico City and London (not to mention Toronto...) just to humor themselves, you are greatly mistaken. How is that fact not an indication that the league wants to expand?!
    I have no doubt that building an international fan base is very profitable and is what the league is intending to do with thes international GAMES.
    However hosting goodwill games to spread the brand is not an indication that the league wants to permanently set up shop there.
    I do not see why you see that as an indication they want to put a franchise there.
    If anything they are trying to stir interest so more people tune in to the TV on Sundays and they can boost ad revenue, TV contracts and team apparel sales(which make the league more money than ticket prices anyway, at a much lower cost)
    Good points, but I don't think the NFL plans on being a traveling circus forever. Like I said in my last paragraph, I am pretty sure they are simply testing markets out and gaging fan's responses.


    "ItalianStallion" wrote:
    "C" wrote:
    Also, your argument about the NFL not wanting to fly players overseas... I don't think that will be a big issue... I mean, London to NYC is only slightly more expensive than NYC to San Fran... plus, in a league that makes well over a billion dollars a year, I don't think airplane tickets will be their main concern.
    It will be to the individual owners who have to pay for these flights.
    You just described the longest flight currently that players have to go on, but what about San Fran to London, or New York to Japan, Texas to Germany, etc. etc.
    Combine that with the impact that would have on the players and coaches (jet lag, less sleep and time for the families etc.).
    You're talking about hundreds of thousands of plane tickets a year, with rising fuel prices and overseas flights, that's not chump change.

    There is a reason that there are no major professional leagues that span such long distances.

    What it all comes down to is the notion that you see these international games as some sort of intention that the NFL plans permanent expansion internationally, despite no real evidence or statements.
    Despite the obvious signs pointing against expansion (lack of LA team, or any other team since the divisions were perfected after the Texans joined, despite the amazing success of the league). Why would you tinker with a model that has proven to be so successful presently?
    The league already spends hundreds of thousands on plane tickets a year, so that's a moot point.

    But, I'm done talking about this. If you're right, the NFL will continue to sit in it's comfortable little nest that is the US... safe from all that "Big, Bad" international currency out there.

    I mean, the NFL has never grown... oh wait, yes they have.

    I mean, busnisess in general don't strive for growth and additional areas of income... oh wait, yes they do.

    International cities aren't interested in football and would never show up for a game.... oh wait, they do.


    If the NFL simply stays put, that would be one of the biggest mis-managements of any league/corporation, ever... in the history of mankind. I have been overseas multiple times and watched NFL games overseas... multiple times. There is a market just waiting there, and if you think a couple thousand dollars in plane tickets should scare them away from billions in revenue, I'd say check your math again.

    I'm done.

    Disclaimer: I'm an idiot.

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