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  1. #31
    gagarr's Avatar
    gagarr is offline Team Alumni
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    Re:Re-vote for Defensive ROY

    Marrdro wrote:
    HEY wrote:
    Okay Marrdro, I'm going to try to keep this short as I have a feeling that this might go one for several pages.

    I believe that you didn't try to "come off as a asssshhhhat", but the fact is that you said what you said, and those words are arguable the biggest insult to a parent.

    All I'm saying is that you might considering toning it down a little. I know this is the Internet and it makes people say things they wouldn't say face-to-face, but we shouldn't forget that there are still people behind every comment.

    Of course young athletes look at successfull athletes to model thier game after but that in no way equates to them holding that cat up as a role model
    Yes, I agree. There is a difference, but kids are going to find role models whether we like it or not. It's only natural to have role models when you grow up. Most kids have their parents as their biggest role models, but I think it's perfectly fine to have e.g. a NFL player as a role model to look up to if the kid loves football. That's simply in the nature of the human. Finding the player with the right character however, that's a whole other story.
    Two things....

    1. I never say anything on here that I wouldn't say to any of your faces my friend. Again, I was not pointing my comments at you.

    2. When it comes to the youth (especially my kids) of America, I don't think we should tone anything down.

    but I think it's perfectly fine to have e.g. a NFL player as a role model to look up to if the kid loves football.
    Football, yes, life, no.
    I'm going to chime in here a bit.

    The biggest problem with role models is there is no guarantee that they will not disappoint or set a bad example. i.e. Former President Clinton and his philandering.

    You may want them to choose there parent or relative, but they are not larger than life or in most cases achieved the pinncale of their profession or contributed as much to society as others. Thus, they don't set the best role models in all cases.

    That said role models are still important, but what a parent must do is make sure their child takes the good parts and not the questionable parts of their role models.

    Back on topic, in Cushing's case, make sure the child knows that striving for excellence and awards like ROY are admirable, but not at the risks of taking drugs to accomplish it. That the re-vote gave him back his ROY, didn't confirm that what he did was OK. It showed that mistakes can be forgiven and what really matters is what he learned from his mistakes.

    I'm sure there are tons of kids who looked up to Favre, who were crushed by him going to the Vikes. Even if the parent is also upset about it, they shouldn't let the child be crushed by it. In today's world, it is important that a child learns that regardless of their loyalty to a company, there isn't always loyalty back. That nobody should stop you from doing what you love. What isn't admirable is if Favre went to the Vikes for revenge.
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  2. #32
    Caine's Avatar
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    Re:Re-vote for Defensive ROY

    Marrdro wrote:
    HEY wrote:
    Okay Marrdro, I'm going to try to keep this short as I have a feeling that this might go one for several pages.

    I believe that you didn't try to "come off as a asssshhhhat", but the fact is that you said what you said, and those words are arguable the biggest insult to a parent.

    All I'm saying is that you might considering toning it down a little. I know this is the Internet and it makes people say things they wouldn't say face-to-face, but we shouldn't forget that there are still people behind every comment.

    Of course young athletes look at successfull athletes to model thier game after but that in no way equates to them holding that cat up as a role model
    Yes, I agree. There is a difference, but kids are going to find role models whether we like it or not. It's only natural to have role models when you grow up. Most kids have their parents as their biggest role models, but I think it's perfectly fine to have e.g. a NFL player as a role model to look up to if the kid loves football. That's simply in the nature of the human. Finding the player with the right character however, that's a whole other story.
    Two things....

    1. I never say anything on here that I wouldn't say to any of your faces my friend. Again, I was not pointing my comments at you.

    2. When it comes to the youth (especially my kids) of America, I don't think we should tone anything down.

    but I think it's perfectly fine to have e.g. a NFL player as a role model to look up to if the kid loves football.
    Football, yes, life, no.
    Before this devolves into a knock down drag out, I'd like to put in a few comments:

    1: What is a "Role Model"? Dictionary.com defines it as, "a person whose behavior, example, or success is or can be emulated by others, esp. by younger people."

    The way I see it, you're both right.

    When it comes to life, I really don't want to have my kids emulate athletes - unless I want to teach a lesson about perseverance, courage, tenacity, or any of a host of specific examples that Sports allows us to glimpse in our every day life.

    Yes, I grant you that a Marine might be a better example, but I don't have daily access to a lot of footage to show my kids featuring Marines in those roles, and there are things Marines do that I DON'T want my kids doing.

    I don't want my kids to emulate a lot of specific things about specific people. But occasionally there are traits or characteristics that are evidenced by people in any walk of life that are laudable. Because they fall into a "Non-Role Model" category, does that mean I must reject them out of hand? I hope not.

    My POINT is that there is NO one person who is the perfect role model (Myself excluded, of course...and you would do well to have your kids emulate me in all things).

    Marrdro talks about using family members, yet statistics tell us that the majority of child sexual assaults are perpetrated by family or friends...people that are known to the child.

    HEY talks about using athletes, but I really don't want my kids snorting coke (Darryl Strawberry), throwing hissy-fits (Terrell Owens), or victimizing other people (Ben Roethlisberger).

    The thing is, we're ALLOWED to separate people out for specific reasons. I would LOVE for my kids to have the creativity and success of Mel Gibson...minus the alcohol fueled anti-semitism. I would LOVE to have my kids develop the athletic ability and drive of Ray Lewis - minus the murder charge.

    In short, specific traits of specific people are ALLOWED to be used as examples for kids. Even if they're sports figures, entertainers, or retired Squids with an oral abscess. We don't want them to emulate the whole person - but whenever a positive trait shows up, highlight it.

    Caine

  3. #33
    gagarr's Avatar
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    Re:Re-vote for Defensive ROY

    Caine wrote:
    Marrdro wrote:
    HEY wrote:
    Okay Marrdro, I'm going to try to keep this short as I have a feeling that this might go one for several pages.

    I believe that you didn't try to "come off as a asssshhhhat", but the fact is that you said what you said, and those words are arguable the biggest insult to a parent.

    All I'm saying is that you might considering toning it down a little. I know this is the Internet and it makes people say things they wouldn't say face-to-face, but we shouldn't forget that there are still people behind every comment.

    Of course young athletes look at successfull athletes to model thier game after but that in no way equates to them holding that cat up as a role model
    Yes, I agree. There is a difference, but kids are going to find role models whether we like it or not. It's only natural to have role models when you grow up. Most kids have their parents as their biggest role models, but I think it's perfectly fine to have e.g. a NFL player as a role model to look up to if the kid loves football. That's simply in the nature of the human. Finding the player with the right character however, that's a whole other story.
    Two things....

    1. I never say anything on here that I wouldn't say to any of your faces my friend. Again, I was not pointing my comments at you.

    2. When it comes to the youth (especially my kids) of America, I don't think we should tone anything down.

    but I think it's perfectly fine to have e.g. a NFL player as a role model to look up to if the kid loves football.
    Football, yes, life, no.
    Before this devolves into a knock down drag out, I'd like to put in a few comments:

    1: What is a "Role Model"? Dictionary.com defines it as, "a person whose behavior, example, or success is or can be emulated by others, esp. by younger people."

    The way I see it, you're both right.

    When it comes to life, I really don't want to have my kids emulate athletes - unless I want to teach a lesson about perseverance, courage, tenacity, or any of a host of specific examples that Sports allows us to glimpse in our every day life.

    Yes, I grant you that a Marine might be a better example, but I don't have daily access to a lot of footage to show my kids featuring Marines in those roles, and there are things Marines do that I DON'T want my kids doing.

    I don't want my kids to emulate a lot of specific things about specific people. But occasionally there are traits or characteristics that are evidenced by people in any walk of life that are laudable. Because they fall into a "Non-Role Model" category, does that mean I must reject them out of hand? I hope not.

    My POINT is that there is NO one person who is the perfect role model (Myself excluded, of course...and you would do well to have your kids emulate me in all things).

    Marrdro talks about using family members, yet statistics tell us that the majority of child sexual assaults are perpetrated by family or friends...people that are known to the child.

    HEY talks about using athletes, but I really don't want my kids snorting coke (Darryl Strawberry), throwing hissy-fits (Terrell Owens), or victimizing other people (Ben Roethlisberger).

    The thing is, we're ALLOWED to separate people out for specific reasons. I would LOVE for my kids to have the creativity and success of Mel Gibson...minus the alcohol fueled anti-semitism. I would LOVE to have my kids develop the athletic ability and drive of Ray Lewis - minus the murder charge.

    In short, specific traits of specific people are ALLOWED to be used as examples for kids. Even if they're sports figures, entertainers, or retired Squids with an oral abscess. We don't want them to emulate the whole person - but whenever a positive trait shows up, highlight it.

    Caine
    +1

    The hardest part is when there might be a direct correlation between a person's success and their flaws. i.e. Cushing taking PED resulted in getting ROY. A persons prejudices can be fuel for their success i.e. Hitler was Time magazine "Man of the Year" in 1939. Or something as simple as down playing a colleagues work to get a promotion.

    I doubt Ray Lewis's murder charge made him a better player.
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  4. #34
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re:Re-vote for Defensive ROY

    Caine wrote:
    Before this devolves into a knock down drag out, I'd like to put in a few comments:
    LOL, I don't think it would have gone that far. HEY and I are way to level headed and open minded to allow a little discussion to get that heated.

    Besides, I apologized to him in a PM for being such an ass the instant I found out I went to far.......

    Back off topic,....

    My good friend Gagarr made a very good point.....

    You may want them to choose there parent or relative, but they are not larger than life or in most cases achieved the pinncale of their profession or contributed as much to society as others. Thus, they don't set the best role models in all cases.

    That said role models are still important, but what a parent must do is make sure their child takes the good parts and not the questionable parts of their role models
    Adequately articulated my friend.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  5. #35
    V4L's Avatar
    V4L
    V4L is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re:Re-vote for Defensive ROY

    Good for Cushing

    And as for the comments earlier.. Not nagging on anyone.. But if your child doesn't know not to take drugs and steroids cuz an athlete was punished for it.. THen yes you yourself need to do some work

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