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  1. #21
    Potus2028 is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Proof: Young's wonderlic score is meaningless.

    "jhirchak1" wrote:
    I see him having more success than Leinart. He seems to have his head on straight and to have more character than Leinart. I can easily see Leinart getting caught up in the celebrity lifestyle and start to lose focus (although he handled it pretty well at USC).
    i think the exact opposite

    you didnt see leinart running around making the plays. he lead his team by using all the weapons (bush, and white), and not just by him running it, or handing off. he had a pretty decent arm.

    i think young is the new vick, new in the sense that he's younger. but we wont be seeing any SB rings on young, rather a lot of good highlight film on the SB pre-game show, while he's sitting in his tennesse home watching it
    i m better than you, so just give up...

  2. #22
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: Proof: Young's wonderlic score is meaningless.

    "Potus2028" wrote:
    "jhirchak1" wrote:
    I see him having more success than Leinart. He seems to have his head on straight and to have more character than Leinart. I can easily see Leinart getting caught up in the celebrity lifestyle and start to lose focus (although he handled it pretty well at USC).
    i think the exact opposite

    you didnt see leinart running around making the plays. he lead his team by using all the weapons (bush, and white), and not just by him running it, or handing off. he had a pretty decent arm.

    i think young is the new vick, new in the sense that he's younger. but we wont be seeing any SB rings on young, rather a lot of good highlight film on the SB pre-game show, while he's sitting in his tennesse home watching it
    True that! Great SB winning QBs win SBs by using ALL of their weapons!
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  3. #23
    Potus2028 is offline Hall of Famer
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    Re: Proof: Young's wonderlic score is meaningless.

    thanks..

    i fealt moved to write that

    but if you look at it..

    a bunch of great mobile qb's have never won SB's..

    mcnabb, vick, culpepper, mcnair...

    but the list of GREAT qb's werent the mobile ones, but the great passes..

    montanna, -steve- young, staubach, namath, aikman...

    anyways, often times, on a SB team, it isnt the qb that makes the difference..

    like i dont know the qb on the perfect season dolphins, or the 80's bears, or of the giants.. you get my point
    i m better than you, so just give up...

  4. #24
    BloodyHorns82's Avatar
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    Re: Proof: Young's wonderlic score is meaningless.

    "Potus2028" wrote:
    thanks..

    i fealt moved to write that

    but if you look at it..

    a bunch of great mobile qb's have never won SB's..

    mcnabb, vick, culpepper, mcnair...

    but the list of GREAT qb's werent the mobile ones, but the great passes..

    montanna, -steve- young, staubach, namath, aikman...

    anyways, often times, on a SB team, it isnt the qb that makes the difference..

    like i dont know the qb on the perfect season dolphins, or the 80's bears, or of the giants.. you get my point
    Wasn't Steve Young pretty mobile? Or am I just thinking back to that damn burger king commericial where he made the vikes look like fools?

  5. #25
    Prophet Guest

    Re: Proof: Young's wonderlic score is meaningless.

    "Potus2028" wrote:
    ...anyways, often times, on a SB team, it isnt the qb that makes the difference...
    Trent Dilfer is the model example, just didn't screw things up.

    Griese, from the 73 Fins, was a machine. He did a fair amount of running but I don't remember him as a scrambler, although he would run the ball when he needed to. He led the team with an uncanny awareness of his surroundings.

    Our buddy Fran Tarkenton was one of the first scramblers. He made the SB four times but never took home the trophy.

    The main reason there aren't any scramblers that won the SB is not because scramblers can't win the SB. It's more along the lines of scramblers have to have the complete package to be competitive. They need to have the intelligence, leadership skills, athleticism, and football intuition. There are very few that possess all of these skills.

    People like Ron Mexico or Aaron Brooks are gifted at running and they panic instead of making their reads and take off running. They just don't have the leadership skills or tenacity to perform at that level.

    My gut instinct is that Vince Young will fall into the Ron Mexico category. Even though Chow said, "he's not an athlete playing quarterback. He is a quarterback who is a good athlete." I'm guessing, based on his moronic scores on the Wonderlic, that he doesn't have enough upstairs to get the job done. His athleticism will carry him when he first hits the field, but the defensive coordinators of the league will look for his flaws and capitalize on them. Does Vince have enough intellect to overcome all the new coverages? Will his athleticism make up for his intellectual deficiencies? I say they will initially, but in the long run he will be a mediocre QB that will never sniff the HOF.

  6. #26
    cajunvike's Avatar
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    Re: Proof: Young's wonderlic score is meaningless.

    "BloodyHorns82" wrote:
    "Potus2028" wrote:
    thanks..

    i fealt moved to write that

    but if you look at it..

    a bunch of great mobile qb's have never won SB's..

    mcnabb, vick, culpepper, mcnair...

    but the list of GREAT qb's werent the mobile ones, but the great passes..

    montanna, -steve- young, staubach, namath, aikman...

    anyways, often times, on a SB team, it isnt the qb that makes the difference..

    like i dont know the qb on the perfect season dolphins, or the 80's bears, or of the giants.. you get my point
    Wasn't Steve Young pretty mobile? Or am I just thinking back to that gol 'darnit burger king commericial where he made the vikes look like fools?
    Young WAS mobile...BUT he was a pocket passer FIRST! No questioning HIS intelligence...he graduated from law school...and EVERYONE KNOWS how smart lawyers are!!! :evil4:
    BANNED OR DEAD...I'LL TAKE EITHER ONE

  7. #27
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    Re: Proof: Young's wonderlic score is meaningless.

    "Prophet" wrote:
    "Potus2028" wrote:
    ...anyways, often times, on a SB team, it isnt the qb that makes the difference...
    Trent Dilfer is the model example, just didn't screw things up.

    Griese, from the 73 Fins, was a machine. He did a fair amount of running but I don't remember him as a scrambler, although he would run the ball when he needed to. He led the team with an uncanny awareness of his surroundings.

    Our buddy Fran Tarkenton was one of the first scramblers. He made the SB four times but never took home the trophy.

    The main reason there aren't any scramblers that won the SB is not because scramblers can't win the SB. It's more along the lines of scramblers have to have the complete package to be competitive. They need to have the intelligence, leadership skills, athleticism, and football intuition. There are very few that possess all of these skills.

    People like Ron Mexico or Aaron Brooks are gifted at running and they panic instead of making their reads and take off running. They just don't have the leadership skills or tenacity to perform at that level.

    My gut instinct is that Vince Young will fall into the Ron Mexico category. Even though Chow said, "he's not an athlete playing quarterback. He is a quarterback who is a good athlete." I'm guessing, based on his moronic scores on the Wonderlic, that he doesn't have enough upstairs to get the job done. His athleticism will carry him when he first hits the field, but the defensive coordinators of the league will look for his flaws and capitalize on them. Does Vince have enough intellect to overcome all the new coverages? Will his athleticism make up for his intellectual deficiencies? I say they will initially, but in the long run he will be a mediocre QB that will never sniff the HOF.
    Very good argument with Dilfer as to how you don't need a good QB to win the superbowl.

    You also make good arguments that its hard to win a SuperBowl by just having a good quarterback. Do you think that if Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Michael Vick or Aaron Brooks were starting for the Ravens that their chances of winning the SB would have been less likely?

    I hear a lot of arguments about how a QB doesn't need to be athletic to win a superbowl and then it gets turned pretty quickly into athletic qb's can't win superbowls (unless they have the complete package aka Steve Young).

    I would argue this, if you have a team that requires the QB to win you games (not just manage them) then you need a playmaker in that spot whether it be done through their legs, their arm, their superior mastery of this gigantically complicated thing called football, their poise (my personal favorite).

    Vince Young has a chance of being a difference maker. Will he succeed on his running ability alone? Nope. Does he have the mental capacity to learn how to make the right decisions? Not proven yet.
    Can he be a successful passing QB in the NFL? Not proven yet.

    The point I'm trying to make is that if you don't want or need a QB to be a difference maker to win a super bowl, than don't try to give credit to all the SuperBowl winning QB's for being the reason why they won the SB.

    One last thing, I've said this numerous times about Vince, but I think its the most overlooked thing about him. Vince is a winner. He has the most poise and confidence I have seen in an athlete. I was against VY from day one at UT, but he always proved me wrong. When the biggest games were on the line, he performed the best, whether it meant running the ball or throwing it (yes he won big games with his arm). Granted he wasn't very likely to hand it off and put the game in someone else's hands.

  8. #28
    Prophet Guest

    Re: Proof: Young's wonderlic score is meaningless.

    I hope he is successful. There is no doubt that he is fun to watch and the entertainment value of watching increases with players like that on the field.

    You also make good arguments that its hard to win a SuperBowl by just having a good quarterback. Do you think that if Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Michael Vick or Aaron Brooks were starting for the Ravens that their chances of winning the SB would have been less likely?
    I wish I knew. You would think that the team would just be better, but the skill-set of the team and the strengths of the team would change and the implementation of their game plan would change. There's always the overlaid injury bug and a host of other factors that come into play too. Bottom-line is that there is so much subjectivity in our analyses of players that it's impossible to tell. We use statistics to attempt to validate our opinions and make them appear to be more objective, but when it's all said and done it is an opinion laced with subjectivity.

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