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  1. #1
    Purple Floyd's Avatar
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    Packers: Lambeau expansion will cost taxpayers no

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/25/packers-lambeau-expansion-will-cost-taxpayers-nothing/

    I may have to start a new soreadsheet for "Franchises that have a clue"


    When the Packers announced today that they’re adding seats to Lambeau Field, they made a point of noting that the project won’t cost anything for taxpayers.

    Instead, the expansion of the south end zone seating area, which will add about 6,600 seats beginning with the 2013 season, will be paid for with loans and possibly a stock sale. The Packers see the expansion as a sound long-term investment, since they’ll bring in an estimated $11 million a year in increased revenue when they can sell 6,600 more tickets per game.

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    Re: Packers: Lambeau expansion will cost taxpayers no

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1106138
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/25/packers-lambeau-expansion-will-cost-taxpayers-nothing/

    I may have to start a new soreadsheet for "Franchises that have a clue"


    When the Packers announced today that they’re adding seats to Lambeau Field, they made a point of noting that the project won’t cost anything for taxpayers.

    Instead, the expansion of the south end zone seating area, which will add about 6,600 seats beginning with the 2013 season, will be paid for with loans and possibly a stock sale. The Packers see the expansion as a sound long-term investment, since they’ll bring in an estimated $11 million a year in increased revenue when they can sell 6,600 more tickets per game.
    See that method listed there? Stock sale? Green Bay, being community owned, can issue voting stock - which it also did the last time they expanded.

    I don't believe that other franchises have the ability to do so.

    So, instead of putting them as a franchise with a clue, you may want to amend that list and cite this as yet another example of how an NFL exemption which allowed them to stay in the League 50 years ago is once again paying off. If you forced Green Bay to adhere to the same rules and policies the rest of the NFL has to play by, we would be having a different discussion.

    Caine

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    Re: Packers: Lambeau expansion will cost taxpayers no

    Ah the old "we'll sell stock" ploy. Hungry fans eat that shit up & throw money at the team actually thinking they personally own part of it.

    They have a piece of paper that says so, but I highly doubt any fan has ever received a dividend check from that stock. And make no mistake about it, the Packers make millions of dollars each year.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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    Re: Packers: Lambeau expansion will cost taxpayers no

    Doesn't matter. At least they are raising the cash themselves. I am sure Ziggy could also do some sort of stock sale that he could do the same thing with. Large corporations do it all of the time to raise cash.

    I still give them props for not holding the taxpayers over the barrel to fund the project

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    Re: Packers: Lambeau expansion will cost taxpayers no

    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1106143
    Ah the old "we'll sell stock" ploy. Hungry fans eat that shit up & throw money at the team actually thinking they personally own part of it.

    They have a piece of paper that says so, but I highly doubt any fan has ever received a dividend check from that stock. And make no mistake about it, the Packers make millions of dollars each year.
    Packers "shares" are not like normal shares you trade on the market. I coudl be wrong, but I don't think they're easilly transferrable. They pay no dividends, and you don't really have a say in how the team is ran. It's still ran by a president, GM and HC. It's a novelty item, and that's it.


    Also, about how Lambeau won't cost taxpayers money, that's probably true.

    Packers waiting list for season tickets? more than a lifetime according the United State court system.

    Vikings waiting list for season tickets? There isn't one.

    Wonder why one team has more money?

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    Re: Packers: Lambeau expansion will cost taxpayers no

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1106153
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1106143
    Ah the old "we'll sell stock" ploy. Hungry fans eat that shit up & throw money at the team actually thinking they personally own part of it.

    They have a piece of paper that says so, but I highly doubt any fan has ever received a dividend check from that stock. And make no mistake about it, the Packers make millions of dollars each year.
    Packers "shares" are not like normal shares you trade on the market. I could be wrong, but I don't think they're easily transferable. They pay no dividends, and you don't really have a say in how the team is ran. It's still ran by a president, GM and HC. It's a novelty item, and that's it.
    That's pretty much correct.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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    Re: Packers: Lambeau expansion will cost taxpayers no

    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1106153
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1106143
    Ah the old "we'll sell stock" ploy. Hungry fans eat that shit up & throw money at the team actually thinking they personally own part of it.

    They have a piece of paper that says so, but I highly doubt any fan has ever received a dividend check from that stock. And make no mistake about it, the Packers make millions of dollars each year.
    Packers "shares" are not like normal shares you trade on the market. I coudl be wrong, but I don't think they're easilly transferrable. They pay no dividends, and you don't really have a say in how the team is ran. It's still ran by a president, GM and HC. It's a novelty item, and that's it.


    Also, about how Lambeau won't cost taxpayers money, that's probably true.

    Packers waiting list for season tickets? more than a lifetime according the United State court system.

    Vikings waiting list for season tickets? There isn't one.

    Wonder why one team has more money?
    IIRC, the shares allow the holder to have a "Vote" in general issues, but they do not pay dividends.

    From their website:

    Shareholders
    Green Bay Packers, Inc., has been a publicly owned, nonprofit corporation since Aug. 18, 1923, when original articles of
    incorporation were filed with Wisconsin’s secretary of state.

    A total of 4,750,937 shares is owned by 112,158 stockholders —
    none of whom receives any dividend on the initial investment.

    The corporation is governed by a board of directors and a seven member executive committee.

    One of the more remarkable business stories in American history,
    the team is kept viable by its shareholders — its unselfish fans. Even more incredible, the Packers have survived during the current era, permeated by free agency and the NFL salary cap. And, thanks in large part to Brown County’s passage of the 2000 Lambeau Field
    referendum, the club will remain solvent and highly competitive well
    into the future due to its redeveloped stadium.

    Fans have come to the team’s financial rescue on several occasions, including four previous stock sales: 1923, 1935, 1950 and 1997.

    To protect against someone taking control of the team, the
    articles of incorporation prohibit any person from owning more than
    200,000 shares.
    Essentially, the Packers have a revenue stream available to them that no other team has. They ALSO get to participate in revenue sharing.

    Though they are publicly-owned, the Packers are not publicly traded and have only had four stock sales in their entire history. The last one was in 1997, which was the first one in 60 years.
    Packers stock does not appreciate, doesn't pay a dividend, and doesn't even come with a ticket to the game. But you do get a nice certificate to hang on your wall that let's you brag to your friends that you own a football team.


    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/green-bay-packers-stock-2011-8#ixzz1WFFIp6di
    Again, as I said earlier, if they leveled the playing field, Green Bay would be in the unenviable position of trying to raise revenue in a very small market area. That, in turn, would change the complexion of the team, and would likely affect the fan base.

    Or, on the flip side, if teams like the Vikings could be publicly traded to raise revenue, they would...which would lower the tax burden and make stadium deals easier to pass.

    Just another example of how the NFL unfairly favors the Packers.

    Caine

  8. #8
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    Re: Packers: Lambeau expansion will cost taxpayers no

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1106147
    Doesn't matter. At least they are raising the cash themselves. I am sure Ziggy could also do some sort of stock sale that he could do the same thing with. Large corporations do it all of the time to raise cash.

    I still give them props for not holding the taxpayers over the barrel to fund the project
    Zygi could try, but I don't think he'd have as much success. Plus as Caine pointed out, I don't think any of the other 31 teams in the league could sell stock in the teams franchise. The league probably wouldn't allow it.

    The other thing is that those donating to the cause by buying stock in the Packers might have a vested interest in the extra seating that will be provided. There's a hell of a long line of people on their season ticket waiting list & the addition of 6,000+ seats means thousands of people will be given an opportunity to buy those seats & move off the waiting list.

    There's no waiting list for season tix in MN & the addition of 6,000 seats wouldn't mean much if anything to fans or hold the same urgency as it would in GB.

    The one thing I do admire about Packer fans is that no matter how shitty of a season they have, they always fill their stadium.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  9. #9
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    Re: Packers: Lambeau expansion will cost taxpayers no

    Quote Originally Posted by "Caine" #1106155
    Quote Originally Posted by "i_bleed_purple" #1106153
    Quote Originally Posted by "singersp" #1106143
    Ah the old "we'll sell stock" ploy. Hungry fans eat that shit up & throw money at the team actually thinking they personally own part of it.

    They have a piece of paper that says so, but I highly doubt any fan has ever received a dividend check from that stock. And make no mistake about it, the Packers make millions of dollars each year.
    Packers "shares" are not like normal shares you trade on the market. I coudl be wrong, but I don't think they're easilly transferrable. They pay no dividends, and you don't really have a say in how the team is ran. It's still ran by a president, GM and HC. It's a novelty item, and that's it.


    Also, about how Lambeau won't cost taxpayers money, that's probably true.

    Packers waiting list for season tickets? more than a lifetime according the United State court system.

    Vikings waiting list for season tickets? There isn't one.

    Wonder why one team has more money?
    IIRC, the shares allow the holder to have a "Vote" in general issues, but they do not pay dividends.

    From their website:

    Shareholders
    Green Bay Packers, Inc., has been a publicly owned, nonprofit corporation since Aug. 18, 1923, when original articles of
    incorporation were filed with Wisconsin’s secretary of state.

    A total of 4,750,937 shares is owned by 112,158 stockholders —
    none of whom receives any dividend on the initial investment.

    The corporation is governed by a board of directors and a seven member executive committee.

    One of the more remarkable business stories in American history,
    the team is kept viable by its shareholders — its unselfish fans. Even more incredible, the Packers have survived during the current era, permeated by free agency and the NFL salary cap. And, thanks in large part to Brown County’s passage of the 2000 Lambeau Field
    referendum, the club will remain solvent and highly competitive well
    into the future due to its redeveloped stadium.

    Fans have come to the team’s financial rescue on several occasions, including four previous stock sales: 1923, 1935, 1950 and 1997.

    To protect against someone taking control of the team, the
    articles of incorporation prohibit any person from owning more than
    200,000 shares.
    Essentially, the Packers have a revenue stream available to them that no other team has. They ALSO get to participate in revenue sharing.

    Though they are publicly-owned, the Packers are not publicly traded and have only had four stock sales in their entire history. The last one was in 1997, which was the first one in 60 years.
    Packers stock does not appreciate, doesn't pay a dividend, and doesn't even come with a ticket to the game. But you do get a nice certificate to hang on your wall that let's you brag to your friends that you own a football team.


    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/green-bay-packers-stock-2011-8#ixzz1WFFIp6di
    Again, as I said earlier, if they leveled the playing field, Green Bay would be in the unenviable position of trying to raise revenue in a very small market area. That, in turn, would change the complexion of the team, and would likely affect the fan base.

    Or, on the flip side, if teams like the Vikings could be publicly traded to raise revenue, they would...which would lower the tax burden and make stadium deals easier to pass.

    Just another example of how the NFL unfairly favors the Packers.

    Caine
    One of the interesting things I've heard about the Packers shares that have been more recently sold is the voting rights are not on par with original shares, you now have to buy more to have a vote, and I think at some point some nonvoting shares have been issued.

  10. #10
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    Re: Packers: Lambeau expansion will cost taxpayers no

    Quote Originally Posted by "Purple Floyd" #1106147
    Doesn't matter. At least they are raising the cash themselves. I am sure Ziggy could also do some sort of stock sale that he could do the same thing with. Large corporations do it all of the time to raise cash.

    I still give them props for not holding the taxpayers over the barrel to fund the project
    Your argument points are Marrdro-esque. You ignore plain facts while trying to enforce your claim that the Vikings are a team of yutz's.

    NFL teams can not be publically owned. They can not sell shares. the Packers are the ONLY team allowed. Old teams get certain benefits grandfathered in from the old days. I forget the exact details, but the way the Steelers are run is also not allowed in todays NFL rules, but they were grandfathered in.

    The Packers are having a stock sale because they are the ONLY team in the league with the ability to do that. You can bet if the Vikings could sell stocks in order to fund part of the stadium, they would. How many here would buy a $100 stock to help fund the stadiuM? I'd bet a fair number. Now through the state of Minnesota, quite a bit more. They'd make decent coin, but they can't. Something you seem to be forgetting.

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