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  1. #21
    gregair13's Avatar
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    Re: NFL's best small hitters

    everyone here will think of winfield first.

    another is derrick johnson from the chiefs
    We're bringing purple back.

  2. #22
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: NFL's best small hitters

    "marstc09" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "renovikesfan" wrote:

    Agreed.
    If nothing else, why not just try it out in practice, and if there's a reasonable amount of success, then use it for, say, a series during an actual game?
    If it doesn't work, then just go back to the other scheme.
    Better yet...gameplan for the opponents who it's most likely to work on.
    I'm sure we wouldn't want Griffin going man-to-man with a speedy #2 receiver, so if we're going up against a team that has a depth of talent in their WR corps, then switch back to a zone coverage scheme.
    Kindof of a wrong perception that we don't play the press.
    In fact we do, I saw it several times last game and the game before that.

    Guess what, CB's (McCauley/Griffin) got burned.

    Why did that happen?
    Poor play call at the wrong time?
    Offense recognizing the mismatch and making an adjustment?
    Young CB's not pressing enough, bumped wrong or just blew the tackle?

    Unfortunately I think it is a little bit of all of the above, with a lot of problems because of youth.
    Again, back to the whole learning on the job thing.

    McCauley and Griff will get better after they feel the pain of plays like that.

    ;D
    We're talking about playing 5 yards back, not on the line man-to-man. If 10 yards is too far, start shortening it up a bit to see what works best. It will change from week to week based off the speed of the WR's & what they are doing.

    We can't continue to continuously give up those 5-10 yard passes, we are being eaten alive by them. Do you get the LB's more involved with those? Is that their zone?
    Dallas is going to eat this pass defense up. Hopefully Chilly will change his gameplan for the Dallas game. If we play the same way against the WRs as we did in the Packer game, look out, 5 TDs for Romo.
    Sorry if it appears I am picking on you, as I'm not. My new mode is to tell people when they make a good post that has some actual football logic in it and to ask the posters to explain themselves when they say things like "change the scheme" or "the game plan sucked" etc.


    I am just tired of people saying things like we need to change the scheme when they don't have the faintest idea of what they are even talking about.

    With that said, what changes to the gameplan do you recommend we do that we didn't do for GB?

    They played a mix of zone and man to man so far in every game.
    They blitz LB's and Secondary in every game.
    LB's showed several different alignments pre-snap (even confused Favreeee a couple of times) in every game.

    I don't think its some much of a change of game plan but rather better execution on a couple of different fronts:

    a.
    CB's need to be more physical when the are up on the line in press.
    Even though some on here believe we only play zone they did do this last game.
    Lack of physical play by Griffin and poor tackling by Griffin and McCauley were the issues.
    Not the scheme just execution by a couple of young guys.
    b.
    Dallas, unlike GB, has a pretty sound running game.
    It won't be as easy to take Phat Pat out as Dallas will run when he comes out.
    Johnson will have to step up both against the draw to stop the run as well as collapsing the middle when they pass when he is in there.
    Again, the Vikes do this types of stuff so I don't know what you want to change there.
    Again, not the scheme but rather execution.

    Again, more details.
    What do you recommend?
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  3. #23
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Re: NFL's best small hitters

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "renovikesfan" wrote:

    Agreed.
    If nothing else, why not just try it out in practice, and if there's a reasonable amount of success, then use it for, say, a series during an actual game?
    If it doesn't work, then just go back to the other scheme.
    Better yet...gameplan for the opponents who it's most likely to work on.
    I'm sure we wouldn't want Griffin going man-to-man with a speedy #2 receiver, so if we're going up against a team that has a depth of talent in their WR corps, then switch back to a zone coverage scheme.
    Kindof of a wrong perception that we don't play the press.
    In fact we do, I saw it several times last game and the game before that.

    Guess what, CB's (McCauley/Griffin) got burned.

    Why did that happen?
    Poor play call at the wrong time?
    Offense recognizing the mismatch and making an adjustment?
    Young CB's not pressing enough, bumped wrong or just blew the tackle?

    Unfortunately I think it is a little bit of all of the above, with a lot of problems because of youth.
    Again, back to the whole learning on the job thing.

    McCauley and Griff will get better after they feel the pain of plays like that.

    ;D
    We're talking about playing 5 yards back, not on the line man-to-man. If 10 yards is too far, start shortening it up a bit to see what works best. It will change from week to week based off the speed of the WR's & what they are doing.

    We can't continue to continuously give up those 5-10 yard passes, we are being eaten alive by them. Do you get the LB's more involved with those? Is that their zone?
    Dallas is going to eat this pass defense up. Hopefully Chilly will change his gameplan for the Dallas game. If we play the same way against the WRs as we did in the Packer game, look out, 5 TDs for Romo.
    Sorry if it appears I am picking on you, as I'm not. My new mode is to tell people when they make a good post that has some actual football logic in it and to ask the posters to explain themselves when they say things like "change the scheme" or "the game plan sucked" etc.


    I am just tired of people saying things like we need to change the scheme when they don't have the faintest idea of what they are even talking about.

    With that said, what changes to the gameplan do you recommend we do that we didn't do for GB?

    They played a mix of zone and man to man so far in every game.
    They blitz LB's and Secondary in every game.
    LB's showed several different alignments pre-snap (even confused Favreeee a couple of times) in every game.

    I don't think its some much of a change of game plan but rather better execution on a couple of different fronts:

    a.
    CB's need to be more physical when the are up on the line in press.
    Even though some on here believe we only play zone they did do this last game.
    Lack of physical play by Griffin and poor tackling by Griffin and McCauley were the issues.
    Not the scheme just execution by a couple of young guys.
    b.
    Dallas, unlike GB, has a pretty sound running game.
    It won't be as easy to take Phat Pat out as Dallas will run when he comes out.

    Johnson will have to step up both against the draw to stop the run as well as collapsing the middle when they pass when he is in there.
    Again, the Vikes do this types of stuff so I don't know what you want to change there.
    Again, not the scheme but rather execution.

    Again, more details.
    What do you recommend?
    I don't think it's so much about changing the scheme as they are both in our defensive plans. I think it's a question of when do you play man-to-man & when you play zone.

    Like I've stated, if Griffin & McCauley are getting beat on man-to-man, adjust it a bit to give them a bit of cushion, but not so much as the zone allows.

    Winfield can usually hang with the WR, so is it possible to allow him to play man-to-man while Griffin is in zone or somewhere between zone & man-to-man?

    Tweak what you already have with minor adjustments to make it work.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  4. #24
    NordicNed is offline Jersey Retired
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    9,513

    Re: NFL's best small hitters

    It all starts with getting preasure on the QB from your line and blitz pacages......Something we haven't done the past few games.



    I've seen Griffin and Mac come up with some very impressive plays so far......



    Get some preasure on the QB and our DB's will be just fine....


    I LOVE THE SMELL OF VICTORY IN THE MORNING AIR.

  5. #25
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: NFL's best small hitters

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=renovikesfan link=topic=38580.msg650997#msg650997 date=1191769680]

    Agreed.
    If nothing else, why not just try it out in practice, and if there's a reasonable amount of success, then use it for, say, a series during an actual game?
    If it doesn't work, then just go back to the other scheme.
    Better yet...gameplan for the opponents who it's most likely to work on.
    I'm sure we wouldn't want Griffin going man-to-man with a speedy #2 receiver, so if we're going up against a team that has a depth of talent in their WR corps, then switch back to a zone coverage scheme.
    Kindof of a wrong perception that we don't play the press.
    In fact we do, I saw it several times last game and the game before that.

    Guess what, CB's (McCauley/Griffin) got burned.

    Why did that happen?
    Poor play call at the wrong time?
    Offense recognizing the mismatch and making an adjustment?
    Young CB's not pressing enough, bumped wrong or just blew the tackle?

    Unfortunately I think it is a little bit of all of the above, with a lot of problems because of youth.
    Again, back to the whole learning on the job thing.

    McCauley and Griff will get better after they feel the pain of plays like that.

    ;D
    We're talking about playing 5 yards back, not on the line man-to-man. If 10 yards is too far, start shortening it up a bit to see what works best. It will change from week to week based off the speed of the WR's & what they are doing.

    We can't continue to continuously give up those 5-10 yard passes, we are being eaten alive by them. Do you get the LB's more involved with those? Is that their zone?
    Dallas is going to eat this pass defense up. Hopefully Chilly will change his gameplan for the Dallas game. If we play the same way against the WRs as we did in the Packer game, look out, 5 TDs for Romo.
    Sorry if it appears I am picking on you, as I'm not. My new mode is to tell people when they make a good post that has some actual football logic in it and to ask the posters to explain themselves when they say things like "change the scheme" or "the game plan sucked" etc.


    I am just tired of people saying things like we need to change the scheme when they don't have the faintest idea of what they are even talking about.

    With that said, what changes to the gameplan do you recommend we do that we didn't do for GB?

    They played a mix of zone and man to man so far in every game.
    They blitz LB's and Secondary in every game.
    LB's showed several different alignments pre-snap (even confused Favreeee a couple of times) in every game.

    I don't think its some much of a change of game plan but rather better execution on a couple of different fronts:

    a.
    CB's need to be more physical when the are up on the line in press.
    Even though some on here believe we only play zone they did do this last game.
    Lack of physical play by Griffin and poor tackling by Griffin and McCauley were the issues.
    Not the scheme just execution by a couple of young guys.
    b.
    Dallas, unlike GB, has a pretty sound running game.
    It won't be as easy to take Phat Pat out as Dallas will run when he comes out.

    Johnson will have to step up both against the draw to stop the run as well as collapsing the middle when they pass when he is in there.
    Again, the Vikes do this types of stuff so I don't know what you want to change there.
    Again, not the scheme but rather execution.

    Again, more details.
    What do you recommend?
    I don't think it's so much about changing the scheme as they are both in our defensive plans. I think it's a question of when do you play man-to-man & when you play zone.

    Like I've stated, if Griffin & McCauley are getting beat on man-to-man, adjust it a bit to give them a bit of cushion, but not so much as the zone allows.

    Winfield can usually hang with the WR, so is it possible to allow him to play man-to-man while Griffin is in zone or somewhere between zone & man-to-man?

    Tweak what you already have with minor adjustments to make it work.
    [/quote]
    You I agree with.
    It isn't the scheme, but just a bit of a tweak here and there.

    I just take it one step further and say that it is also comes down to the players.
    They need to know how to make those onfield adjustments as well, based on what thier defensive call was, what they are seeing at the time (presnap) and what EJ is calling out after the the QB gets to the line.

    Again, all comes with experience.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #26
    marstc09's Avatar
    marstc09 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Phoenix, Arizona
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    Re: NFL's best small hitters

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "renovikesfan" wrote:

    Agreed.
    If nothing else, why not just try it out in practice, and if there's a reasonable amount of success, then use it for, say, a series during an actual game?
    If it doesn't work, then just go back to the other scheme.
    Better yet...gameplan for the opponents who it's most likely to work on.
    I'm sure we wouldn't want Griffin going man-to-man with a speedy #2 receiver, so if we're going up against a team that has a depth of talent in their WR corps, then switch back to a zone coverage scheme.
    Kindof of a wrong perception that we don't play the press.
    In fact we do, I saw it several times last game and the game before that.

    Guess what, CB's (McCauley/Griffin) got burned.

    Why did that happen?
    Poor play call at the wrong time?
    Offense recognizing the mismatch and making an adjustment?
    Young CB's not pressing enough, bumped wrong or just blew the tackle?

    Unfortunately I think it is a little bit of all of the above, with a lot of problems because of youth.
    Again, back to the whole learning on the job thing.

    McCauley and Griff will get better after they feel the pain of plays like that.

    ;D
    We're talking about playing 5 yards back, not on the line man-to-man. If 10 yards is too far, start shortening it up a bit to see what works best. It will change from week to week based off the speed of the WR's & what they are doing.

    We can't continue to continuously give up those 5-10 yard passes, we are being eaten alive by them. Do you get the LB's more involved with those? Is that their zone?
    Dallas is going to eat this pass defense up. Hopefully Chilly will change his gameplan for the Dallas game. If we play the same way against the WRs as we did in the Packer game, look out, 5 TDs for Romo.
    Sorry if it appears I am picking on you, as I'm not. My new mode is to tell people when they make a good post that has some actual football logic in it and to ask the posters to explain themselves when they say things like "change the scheme" or "the game plan sucked" etc.


    I am just tired of people saying things like we need to change the scheme when they don't have the faintest idea of what they are even talking about.

    With that said, what changes to the gameplan do you recommend we do that we didn't do for GB?

    They played a mix of zone and man to man so far in every game.
    They blitz LB's and Secondary in every game.
    LB's showed several different alignments pre-snap (even confused Favreeee a couple of times) in every game.

    I don't think its some much of a change of game plan but rather better execution on a couple of different fronts:

    a.
    CB's need to be more physical when the are up on the line in press.
    Even though some on here believe we only play zone they did do this last game.
    Lack of physical play by Griffin and poor tackling by Griffin and McCauley were the issues.
    Not the scheme just execution by a couple of young guys.
    b.
    Dallas, unlike GB, has a pretty sound running game.
    It won't be as easy to take Phat Pat out as Dallas will run when he comes out.

    Johnson will have to step up both against the draw to stop the run as well as collapsing the middle when they pass when he is in there.
    Again, the Vikes do this types of stuff so I don't know what you want to change there.
    Again, not the scheme but rather execution.

    Again, more details.
    What do you recommend?
    Get me a corner that can play along side Winfield. Griffin is not getting the job done. "Poor tackling and lack of physical play"? Welcome to the NFL! Didn't you learn this in high school? Execution is part of the gameplan.

  7. #27
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
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    Re: NFL's best small hitters

    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=renovikesfan link=topic=38580.msg650997#msg650997 date=1191769680]

    Agreed.
    If nothing else, why not just try it out in practice, and if there's a reasonable amount of success, then use it for, say, a series during an actual game?
    If it doesn't work, then just go back to the other scheme.
    Better yet...gameplan for the opponents who it's most likely to work on.
    I'm sure we wouldn't want Griffin going man-to-man with a speedy #2 receiver, so if we're going up against a team that has a depth of talent in their WR corps, then switch back to a zone coverage scheme.
    Kindof of a wrong perception that we don't play the press.
    In fact we do, I saw it several times last game and the game before that.

    Guess what, CB's (McCauley/Griffin) got burned.

    Why did that happen?
    Poor play call at the wrong time?
    Offense recognizing the mismatch and making an adjustment?
    Young CB's not pressing enough, bumped wrong or just blew the tackle?

    Unfortunately I think it is a little bit of all of the above, with a lot of problems because of youth.
    Again, back to the whole learning on the job thing.

    McCauley and Griff will get better after they feel the pain of plays like that.

    ;D
    We're talking about playing 5 yards back, not on the line man-to-man. If 10 yards is too far, start shortening it up a bit to see what works best. It will change from week to week based off the speed of the WR's & what they are doing.

    We can't continue to continuously give up those 5-10 yard passes, we are being eaten alive by them. Do you get the LB's more involved with those? Is that their zone?
    Dallas is going to eat this pass defense up. Hopefully Chilly will change his gameplan for the Dallas game. If we play the same way against the WRs as we did in the Packer game, look out, 5 TDs for Romo.
    Sorry if it appears I am picking on you, as I'm not. My new mode is to tell people when they make a good post that has some actual football logic in it and to ask the posters to explain themselves when they say things like "change the scheme" or "the game plan sucked" etc.


    I am just tired of people saying things like we need to change the scheme when they don't have the faintest idea of what they are even talking about.

    With that said, what changes to the gameplan do you recommend we do that we didn't do for GB?

    They played a mix of zone and man to man so far in every game.
    They blitz LB's and Secondary in every game.
    LB's showed several different alignments pre-snap (even confused Favreeee a couple of times) in every game.

    I don't think its some much of a change of game plan but rather better execution on a couple of different fronts:

    a.
    CB's need to be more physical when the are up on the line in press.
    Even though some on here believe we only play zone they did do this last game.
    Lack of physical play by Griffin and poor tackling by Griffin and McCauley were the issues.
    Not the scheme just execution by a couple of young guys.
    b.
    Dallas, unlike GB, has a pretty sound running game.
    It won't be as easy to take Phat Pat out as Dallas will run when he comes out.

    Johnson will have to step up both against the draw to stop the run as well as collapsing the middle when they pass when he is in there.
    Again, the Vikes do this types of stuff so I don't know what you want to change there.
    Again, not the scheme but rather execution.

    Again, more details.
    What do you recommend?
    Get me a corner that can play along side Winfield. Griffin is not getting the job done. "Poor tackling and lack of physical play"? Welcome to the NFL! Didn't you learn this in high school? Execution is part of the gameplan.
    [/quote]
    OJT.
    On the Job Training.
    Both him and McCauley will come around as they get the reps.
    ;D
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  8. #28
    marstc09's Avatar
    marstc09 is offline Jersey Retired
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    Phoenix, Arizona
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    Re: NFL's best small hitters

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=38580.msg651035#msg651035 date=1191771727]
    [quote author=renovikesfan link=topic=38580.msg650997#msg650997 date=1191769680]

    Agreed.
    If nothing else, why not just try it out in practice, and if there's a reasonable amount of success, then use it for, say, a series during an actual game?
    If it doesn't work, then just go back to the other scheme.
    Better yet...gameplan for the opponents who it's most likely to work on.
    I'm sure we wouldn't want Griffin going man-to-man with a speedy #2 receiver, so if we're going up against a team that has a depth of talent in their WR corps, then switch back to a zone coverage scheme.
    Kindof of a wrong perception that we don't play the press.
    In fact we do, I saw it several times last game and the game before that.

    Guess what, CB's (McCauley/Griffin) got burned.

    Why did that happen?
    Poor play call at the wrong time?
    Offense recognizing the mismatch and making an adjustment?
    Young CB's not pressing enough, bumped wrong or just blew the tackle?

    Unfortunately I think it is a little bit of all of the above, with a lot of problems because of youth.
    Again, back to the whole learning on the job thing.

    McCauley and Griff will get better after they feel the pain of plays like that.

    ;D
    We're talking about playing 5 yards back, not on the line man-to-man. If 10 yards is too far, start shortening it up a bit to see what works best. It will change from week to week based off the speed of the WR's & what they are doing.

    We can't continue to continuously give up those 5-10 yard passes, we are being eaten alive by them. Do you get the LB's more involved with those? Is that their zone?
    Dallas is going to eat this pass defense up. Hopefully Chilly will change his gameplan for the Dallas game. If we play the same way against the WRs as we did in the Packer game, look out, 5 TDs for Romo.
    Sorry if it appears I am picking on you, as I'm not. My new mode is to tell people when they make a good post that has some actual football logic in it and to ask the posters to explain themselves when they say things like "change the scheme" or "the game plan sucked" etc.


    I am just tired of people saying things like we need to change the scheme when they don't have the faintest idea of what they are even talking about.

    With that said, what changes to the gameplan do you recommend we do that we didn't do for GB?

    They played a mix of zone and man to man so far in every game.
    They blitz LB's and Secondary in every game.
    LB's showed several different alignments pre-snap (even confused Favreeee a couple of times) in every game.

    I don't think its some much of a change of game plan but rather better execution on a couple of different fronts:

    a.
    CB's need to be more physical when the are up on the line in press.
    Even though some on here believe we only play zone they did do this last game.
    Lack of physical play by Griffin and poor tackling by Griffin and McCauley were the issues.
    Not the scheme just execution by a couple of young guys.
    b.
    Dallas, unlike GB, has a pretty sound running game.
    It won't be as easy to take Phat Pat out as Dallas will run when he comes out.

    Johnson will have to step up both against the draw to stop the run as well as collapsing the middle when they pass when he is in there.
    Again, the Vikes do this types of stuff so I don't know what you want to change there.
    Again, not the scheme but rather execution.

    Again, more details.
    What do you recommend?
    Get me a corner that can play along side Winfield. Griffin is not getting the job done. "Poor tackling and lack of physical play"? Welcome to the NFL! Didn't you learn this in high school? Execution is part of the gameplan.
    [/quote]
    OJT.
    On the Job Training.
    Both him and McCauley will come around as they get the reps.
    ;D
    [/quote]

    I hope before next year.

  9. #29
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
    Mr Anderson is offline Jersey Retired
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    7,692

    Re: NFL's best small hitters

    "gregair13" wrote:
    everyone here will think of winfield first.

    another is derrick johnson from the chiefs
    Derrick Johnson is 6'3 242... not exactly a "small hitter"

    I don't understand why they put some of these guys on the list, none of them besides Winfield and Sanders are small for the NFL. Maybe a little undersized for their position, take Fletcher or Freeney for example, short for their position, but still heavy, strong guys.


    I think it's a pretty stupid list honestly. Most of those guys don't even hit that hard, Winfield and Sanders are the only two guys on there you ever see really "jack up" someone, and they're the smallest. Polamalu always leads with his head, Freeneys sacks are unimpressive in terms of impact, I haven't seen much of Ryans, I don't remember many big Fletcher hits either.

    They should have just made an NFL's Hardest Hitting list.

  10. #30
    VikesFan787's Avatar
    VikesFan787 is offline Coordinator
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    Re: NFL's best small hitters

    "Mr" wrote:
    "gregair13" wrote:
    everyone here will think of winfield first.

    another is derrick johnson from the chiefs
    Derrick Johnson is 6'3 242... not exactly a "small hitter"

    I don't understand why they put some of these guys on the list, none of them besides Winfield and Sanders are small for the NFL. Maybe a little undersized for their position, take Fletcher or Freeney for example, short for their position, but still heavy, strong guys.


    I think it's a pretty stupid list honestly. Most of those guys don't even hit that hard, Winfield and Sanders are the only two guys on there you ever see really "jack up" someone, and they're the smallest. Polamalu always leads with his head, Freeneys sacks are unimpressive in terms of impact, I haven't seen much of Ryans, I don't remember many big Fletcher hits either.

    They should have just made an NFL's Hardest Hitting list.
    NO PAT WILLIAMS!?!? lol
    814


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