03-05-2012, 05:04 PM #41
Summary was that I wasn't replying directly to your post, but the topic in general. Unfortunately only the last quote gets included on replies these days and makes my posts look more targeted than they are intended.
What I put down in 5 paragraphs on my wasted post was basically to say that I don't necessarily see the bounty as being setup to reward dirty play. True it did reward for taking a player out of the game. But if it was done within the bounds of the rules, then I don't see any difference in giving some piddly ass bounty vs. rewarding some one a job with a big paycheck to do what he is being told. For a defensive player, that means to hit hard. Hard enough to cause a fumble, incompletions, get a qb rattled, alligator arms on a receiver, respect, etc. If the bounty was setup specifically to hurt someone even if it meant playing outside the rules, then I would be more upset by the bounty thing.
From what I've heard to date, I don't see anything different from this bounty than what I was given as a reward in high school. That is, a sticker on my helmet, a slap on the ass from the coach and recognition from my teammates and fans om making a great hit. It also helped me keep my job as a starter on defense and the kickoff team.
It does put the violence in the forefront for the general public and will be dealt with by Goodell no doubt.
I also find it hard to believe that NFL players would be willing to go outside the rules to intentionally hurt a player. The downside is too big for them in fines, retribution by opposing teams, suspensions, targeted by refs, etc.
Lastly, I think teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and San Fran take aggressive play to a whole new level than New Orleans does, but apparently they are much better at hiding their incentive process from us.
03-05-2012, 07:21 PM #42
New Orleans simply took the system to it's next logical step - rewarding for damage - and got caught.
And that's the real crime - they got caught. We love our big hits and our injury-riddled opponent rosters (Although we all CLAIM to never want to have someone get hurt) - but don't you DARE let us catch you pandering to our basest desires...it makes us feel dirty. As long as you don't get caught, we can pretend that we just like the "sport" element...not the violence.
So, how do you "fix" this? You don't. You just clamp down on the guys who go too far - like Suh - and hope that the public doesn't see itself too clearly too many times.
Last edited by Caine; 03-05-2012 at 07:24 PM.
03-05-2012, 08:24 PM #43
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Just throwing it out there... Jared Allen can be quoted as saying he wants to drive his helmet into Aaron Rodgers spine....
03-05-2012, 08:35 PM #44
03-05-2012, 09:32 PM #45
What Ward, Harrison and Suh do(for the most part) are illegal because the rules say they are. What the Saints did is wrong on every level. I can't condone the way Suh, Harrison and Ward play. I think Harrison and Suh are out of control at times, and Ward is just a cheapshotter and glory blocker.
Malum prohibitum and malum in se.
If I go out and ignore a written rule, say the speed limit, and hit some poor bastard with my car, I'm a total asshole. I had no intention of injuring this person, but I still hurt them and broke the rules doing so. I'll lose some money over this, but probably won't go to jail.
But if I was given money to intentionally run that guy down with my car, I'm going to prison for attempted murder.
03-06-2012, 06:19 AM #46
If you ignore a rule such as the speed limit and run someone over - depending upon the severity of their injuries - you could be charged with Reckless injury, likely 2nd degree, which is a class "F" felony and carries a 12 year prison sentence or Homicide by negligent operation of vehicle which is a Class "G" Felony (10 years)...either way, it is the RESULT that determines the penalty, not the intent per se.
Intent mitigates the result - like in levels of homicide.
The same is true here. Was the INTENT to injure? Or was the intent to hit really really hard? PROVING intent to injure is almost impossible. And, if it were obvious, it should have been called (which it wasn't).
If the officiating had been worth a piss, at the very least, New Orleans would have suffered for the late hits and we would have likely won. We were screwed rither way.
03-06-2012, 06:49 AM #47
By all accounts (from the players) it happens on every team and not just the saints, to some extent. Maybe the coaches aren't involved, but it happens.
So if we are clammering for picks to be given up were evidence shows that money changed hands in meetings, what do we say when in the 50,000 page document, some evidence shows up about our Vikes?Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.
03-06-2012, 06:54 AM #48
Look, this is exactly like the Bellicheat thing that everyone went off the deep end about. Its something that is prevalent across the whole league and not just the Aint's and we should all be careful about what we are asking for in this as we might be very surprised to find out that our team isn't blameless in all of this.
As to that game. 1 flag my friend. 1 flag. Fault isn't with the bounty, fault is with the refs who let the players play to that degree.Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.
03-06-2012, 06:57 AM #49Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.
03-06-2012, 07:04 AM #50
How about this, how does a S get a "Buckeye" sticker for his helmet? How does a LB'r get his spear sticker for his helmet? It isn't for pulling the kids flag out of his belt. Its for laying the lumber to him.
In the end, one could almost say that almost every football player has made a play (actually a butt load of them), that could justify sending them to jail, and every coach that coaches them could go as well.Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.