Thread: NFL Net files complaint against Comcast

[size=12pt]NFL Net files complaint against Comcast[/size]
Says the cable company favored its own sports channels
By Paul J. Gough
May 6, 2008, 11:13 PM

The complaint said that Comcast gives its own sports channels -- such as Versus and Golf Channel -- preferred position while the NFL Network is stuck on a sports tier. That's even though the NFL Network has higher ratings than either of them, the NFL said.

So the Golf Channel goes on the standard lineup, but NFLN is on the sports tier.
That makes sense.
The only reason they did that is because they knew that people will pay a higher premium to get NFLN.
Comcast is fleecing its customers by forcing them to pay for channels that do not sell well, and then charging a disproportionate price for channels that do.

Waiting for Zeus to defend the cable companies on this one.

"NodakPaul" wrote:

The complaint said that Comcast gives its own sports channels -- such as Versus and Golf Channel -- preferred position while the NFL Network is stuck on a sports tier. That's even though the NFL Network has higher ratings than either of them, the NFL said.

So the Golf Channel goes on the standard lineup, but NFLN is on the sports tier.
That makes sense.
The only reason they did that is because they knew that people will pay a higher premium to get NFLN.
Comcast is fleecing its customers by forcing them to pay for channels that do not sell well, and then charging a disproportionate price for channels that do.

Waiting for Zeus to defend the cable companies on this one.

No reason to defend them - because there's not one shred of evidence in that article to support any of the ludicrous allegations you make above.

No mention of the cost to subscribers for Versus or Golf Channel - or NFLN, for that matter.
No mention of where on the dial those channels are - other than a vague reference to "preferred position".

And, of course, you fail to quote the most important part of the blurb:

"Comcast makes the NFL Network available to all of our customers on a tier of service that the NFL agreed to by contract," Comcast said in a statement. "The NFL has immense power in the marketplace, yet it keeps running to the federal and state governments to try to force changes in the deal it freely accepted in negotiations with Comcast."

Defend NFLN on that, okay?
Please.
PLEASE!!

=Z=

I love Direct TV

"Zeus" wrote:

"NodakPaul" wrote:

The complaint said that Comcast gives its own sports channels -- such as Versus and Golf Channel -- preferred position while the NFL Network is stuck on a sports tier. That's even though the NFL Network has higher ratings than either of them, the NFL said.

So the Golf Channel goes on the standard lineup, but NFLN is on the sports tier.
That makes sense.
The only reason they did that is because they knew that people will pay a higher premium to get NFLN.
Comcast is fleecing its customers by forcing them to pay for channels that do not sell well, and then charging a disproportionate price for channels that do.

Waiting for Zeus to defend the cable companies on this one.

No reason to defend them - because there's not one shred of evidence in that article to support any of the ludicrous allegations you make above.

No mention of the cost to subscribers for Versus or Golf Channel - or NFLN, for that matter.
No mention of where on the dial those channels are - other than a vague reference to "preferred position".

And, of course, you fail to quote the most important part of the blurb:

"Comcast makes the NFL Network available to all of our customers on a tier of service that the NFL agreed to by contract," Comcast said in a statement. "The NFL has immense power in the marketplace, yet it keeps running to the federal and state governments to try to force changes in the deal it freely accepted in negotiations with Comcast."

Defend NFLN on that, okay?
Please.
PLEASE!!

=Z=

AMEN ZEUS!!

"Zeus" wrote:

No mention of the cost to subscribers for Versus or Golf Channel - or NFLN, for that matter.

Versus and Golf Channel are part of the basic line up.
NFLN is part of the Sports Entertainment tier, which is an extra cost.
It says so right in the article:

The complaint said that Comcast gives its own sports channels -- such as Versus and Golf Channel -- preferred position while the NFL Network is stuck on a sports tier.

But if that isn't clear enough, check out Comcast's web site.
http://www.comcast.com/Customers/Clu/ChannelLineup.ashx

"Zeus" wrote:

No mention of where on the dial those channels are - other than a vague reference to "preferred position".

Again, I am pretty sure that "preferred position" doesn't refer to the channel number, but instead where the channels are located in the channel packages.
But since you asked, The Golf channel is channel 28, right behind ESPN (25), ESPN2 (26) and Fox Sports (27).

NFLN is 180/181.
In between The Game Show Network (179) and FIT TV (182).

The point is Comcast has a financial interest in Versus and the Golf channel, so they don't mind including it on the basic package - because they get all the profit.
I don't know what the charge per subscriber is, but if you think that Comcast is providing it for free, then you are silly.

"Zeus" wrote:

And, of course, you fail to quote the most important part of the blurb:

"Comcast makes the NFL Network available to all of our customers on a tier of service that the NFL agreed to by contract," Comcast said in a statement. "The NFL has immense power in the marketplace, yet it keeps running to the federal and state governments to try to force changes in the deal it freely accepted in negotiations with Comcast."

Defend NFLN on that, okay?
Please.
PLEASE!!

=Z=

Umm Time Warner and Comcast ran to congress first, with good old Senator Spectre opening up monopoly exclusion talks in the senate against the NFLN.
Part of their argument (and yours) was that the NFLN was a niche network, and therefore didn't belong on the basic tier.
How is The Golf Channel NOT a niche network?

The NFL finally "agreed".
Lol.
They were forced because they couldn't get any legal support.
And the precedence of cable companies being able to bundle independent channels together to maximize profits continued.
Bravo comcast.
Way to look out for the little people.

"NodakPaul" wrote:

"Zeus" wrote:

No mention of the cost to subscribers for Versus or Golf Channel - or NFLN, for that matter.

Versus and Golf Channel are part of the basic line up.
NFLN is part of the Sports Entertainment tier, which is an extra cost.
It says so right in the article:

The complaint said that Comcast gives its own sports channels -- such as Versus and Golf Channel -- preferred position while the NFL Network is stuck on a sports tier.

But if that isn't clear enough, check out Comcast's web site.
http://www.comcast.com/Customers/Clu/ChannelLineup.ashx

Cool - thanks for the link.
Since Comcast is not my cable company, I used an address for a buddy in St. Paul, where Comcast is the provider.

Under their "Basic Service 1" package, the following channels are available:
2
TPT - 2

HD ON

3
KPXM - ION



4
WCCO - CBS

HD ON

5
KSTP - ABC



6
Metro 6 Regional Access



7
WGN



8
WUCW-CW



9
KMSP - FOX



10
WFTC - My Network



11
KARE - NBC



12
KSTC - IND



13
Local Programming



14
Multi-Faith Channel



15
Public Access



16
Education Access



17
TPT - 17



18
The City Channel



19
SPNN Productions



20
SPNN International



21
EWTN



22
C-SPAN2
News & Info


23
The Weather Channel
News & Info


24
TV Guide Network
Help & Services


25
C-SPAN
News & Info


26
QVC
Lifestyle


95
Home Shopping Network
Lifestyle


99
Univision - WUMN
Multicultural


241
TPT Create (Must have a Digital Box to receive)



242
TPTKids (Must have a Digital Box to receive)
Children & Family


243
TPT Minnesota (Must have a Digital box to receive.)



247
KSTP-DT2 (Must have Digital box to receive)



249
KARE - Weather
News & Info



Do you see Versus or Golf Channel?
I don't.

To get the Golf Channel and Versus (which is NOT a "Sports" network, according to Comcast), I have to select the "Digital Preferred Package with 1 Premium" package.


To get NFLN, I have to select the "Sports Entertainment" package.
172
Fox Movie Channel
Movies


180
NFL Network
Sports
HD ON

262
Fox College Sports Atlantic
Sports


263
Fox College Sports Central
Sports


264
Fox College Sports Pacific
Sports


267
Fox Soccer Channel
Sports


271
Speed Channel
Sports
HD ON

273
NBA TV
Sports
HD ON

274
CBS College Sports
Sports
HD ON

275
NFL Network
Sports


276
NHL Network
Sports


277
Tennis Channel
Sports


278
Sportsman Channel
Lifestyle


749
NBA TV
Sports

So your contention that it's on "Basic" is just wrong.

"Zeus" wrote:

No mention of where on the dial those channels are - other than a vague reference to "preferred position".

Again, I am pretty sure that "preferred position" doesn't refer to the channel number, but instead where the channels are located in the channel packages.
But since you asked, The Golf channel is channel 28, right behind ESPN (25), ESPN2 (26) and Fox Sports (27).

NFLN is 180/181.
In between The Game Show Network (179) and FIT TV (182).

The point is Comcast has a financial interest in Versus and the Golf channel, so they don't mind including it on the basic package - because they get all the profit.
I don't know what the charge per subscriber is, but if you think that Comcast is providing it for free, then you are silly.

As shown above, those channels are NOT on Basic, nor are they on the most basic of the Digital packages.

And the Golf channel is NOT right after ESPN.

58
Travel Channel
Lifestyle


59
The Golf Channel
Sports
HD ON

60
Fox News Channel
News & Info


67
Hallmark Channel
Children & Family


68
Versus
Lifestyle
HD ON

70
MSNBC
News & Info

You're right - that's a premium spot - right after the Travel Channel.
And, man, oh, man, I bet NFLN is crying over not being next to the Hallmark Channel!

"Zeus" wrote:

And, of course, you fail to quote the most important part of the blurb:

"Comcast makes the NFL Network available to all of our customers on a tier of service that the NFL agreed to by contract," Comcast said in a statement. "The NFL has immense power in the marketplace, yet it keeps running to the federal and state governments to try to force changes in the deal it freely accepted in negotiations with Comcast."

Defend NFLN on that, okay?
Please.
PLEASE!!

Umm Time Warner and Comcast ran to congress first, with good old Senator Spectre opening up monopoly exclusion talks in the senate against the NFLN.
Part of their argument (and yours) was that the NFLN was a niche network, and therefore didn't belong on the basic tier.
How is The Golf Channel NOT a niche network?

The NFL finally "agreed".
Lol.
They were forced because they couldn't get any legal support.
And the precedence of cable companies being able to bundle independent channels together to maximize profits continued.
Bravo comcast.
Way to look out for the little people.

Your whole argument hinges on this notion of "Basic", which is just plain wrong.

The Arlen Specter deal was from last year, I believe - which is FAR along into this "battle" between the NFLN and cable companies.
It was NFLN who first put out a "Pity us!" website.
It was NFLN who first started playing hard-ball with the cable companies, figuring (wrongly, it turns out) that fans would rally to their sides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Network

Charter Communications
Charter Communications was one of the first MSO's to provide NFL Network in 2004.[17] Initially the deal called for the network to be carried on Charter's digital-basic programming and included NFL HD and NFL On Demand.[18] However in December 2005 the network pulled the signal from Charter and filed breach of contract suit against Charter in New York Supreme Court over contract language regarding distribution.[13] It was reported that NFL Network wanted a 125 percent rate increase and placement on expanded basic tiers. [19]

I honestly don't understand why you feel it is necessary to defend NFLN so vigorously.
You don't even have cable, right?

=Z=

"Zeus" wrote:

You're right - that's a premium spot - right after the Travel Channel.
And, man, oh, man, I bet NFLN is crying over not being next to the Hallmark Channel!

It looks like the channel lineup differs depending on what zip code you put in.
But again, the "preferred placement" has nothing to do with what channel it is on.
It is the package location.
This is what I said, "Again, I am pretty sure that "preferred position" doesn't refer to the channel number, but instead where the channels are located in the channel packages."
The only reason I included the channel line up was because you asked...

I stand corrected on the basic lineup though.
The package that contains NFLN is still more expensive than the one that has Golf and Versus, but you are right, it is not basic.

"Zeus" wrote:

I honestly don't understand why you feel it is necessary to defend NFLN so vigorously.
You don't even have cable, right?

=Z=

You are right, I don't have cable.
But this isn't so much about defending NFLN as it is being tired of the cable and satellite providers grouping channels together in order to squeeze as much money as possible from the consumer.
I am just as angry with Dish network for taking NFLN off from their basic package.

How many people do you know that have just the basic programming package for cable or satellite?
I would bet that there isn't a single person on PP.O.
Probably very few anywhere.
That is because basic programming sucks.
Programming providers supply only the very least amount of core programming that they can get away with, and then charge disproportionate prices for tiered programming.
Comcast (and other cable companies) wanted to put NFLN on a sport tier NOT because they didn't want to burden the poor old grandmother who doesn't care about football, but because they knew that they could get more money from it.

Let's hypothetically say that only have of the subscribers want NFLN, but Comcast charges two and a half times what it would have cost each person of the cost was spread out over all subscribers.
Comcast makes more money, at the expense of the consumer.
And because the majority of consumers subscribe to one or more tiered packages, the majority of the consumers are paying more for the channels they get than they would if the cost was spread out.

This has been going on for over a decade, ever since the idea of tiered programming was hatched.
And the average amount that consumers are paying for cable has skyrocketed as a result.
I was hoping that the NFLN, backed by a multi-billion dollar industry, and arguably one of the most popular sub groups in the United States, would have the resources to finally break this model.
THAT is why I am on the side of NFLN.

Fuck Comcast and the NFL.

Honestly I can't figure out why you two would defend either one. Both are essentially withholding product from consumers unless those said consumers are willing to sell the proverbial farm. Personally I wouldn't do either because I have the internets to fill plenty of my time.

On that subject though, I do have to give out one more fuck you to Comcast, who holds a monopoly over cable internet access in my area. The only alternative is a (much) slower DSL line, and I get raped paying for the cable line. OK, rant off, now back to your regularly scheduled defending of overpaid cable and NFL whores.

"The" wrote:

floop Comcast and the NFL.

Honestly I can't figure out why you two would defend either one. Both are essentially withholding product from consumers unless those said consumers are willing to sell the proverbial farm.

You are correct there.
I am just picking the lessor of the two evils.
That and I really, really like the programming on NFLN.