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  1. #21
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "singersp" wrote:
    Now why don'y you list for me some game changers our other DB's had?
    Same game:

    New York Giants at 11:21

    1-10-NYG 20
    (11:21) 22-R.Droughns left guard to NYG 21 for 1 yard (51-B.Leber).

    2-9-NYG 21
    (10:39) 22-R.Droughns left end to NYG 21 for no gain (90-F.Evans, 93-K.Williams). PENALTY on NYG-66-D.Diehl, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 21 - No Play.

    2-19-NYG 11
    (10:15) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete short middle to 22-R.Droughns.

    3-19-NYG 11
    (10:08) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass deep middle intended for 17-P.Burress INTERCEPTED by 24-D.Smith at NYG 27. 24-D.Smith pushed ob at NYG 8 for 19 yards (76-C.Snee). Penalty on NYG-66-D.Diehl, Illegal Formation, declined.


    Minnesota Vikings at 09:58

    1-8-NYG 8
    (9:58) 29-C.Taylor left tackle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

    8-R.Longwell extra point is GOOD, Center-46-C.Loeffler, Holder-5-C.Kluwe.

    MIN 21

    NYG 7

    Plays: 1

    Possession: 0:09
    3-10-MIN 11 (13:57) 10-E.Manning pass short left intended for 80-J.Shockey INTERCEPTED by 24-D.Smith (51-B.Leber) at MIN 7. 24-D.Smith for 93 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
    Do those 2 plays mean Dwight Smith is a top safety in the league?

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  2. #22
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Nice read my friend.
    Thanks.

    However, I’ve said all along that Sharper is often overrated by members of the national media, and this ditty from the Sporting News is a perfect example of that.
    Funny, I've only seen a couple posters on here question Sharpers skills.



    I could have sworn that Cook picked up many more penalties than that, so I’m glad to hear that he kept his infractions to a minimum (my list of things to criticize about Cook just got a little shorter).
    Alot of people missed how Cooks play got significantly better as the year went on.
    I for one think him and Herrera will mainstays on the right side for alot of years to come.
    I don't question his skills. I question his motives for playing. I am undecided if he is a glory hound.
    I question his skills.
    And I will continue to question them.
    He's a ball-hawker in a system that does not call for that.


    =Z=
    LOL.
    Adequately articulated Z.


    The way I see it, Sharp is one of the last remaining pieces that needs to be replaced. Seems we might have that replacement on the roster this year.

    I hope he gets a little seasoning before he is thrown to the wolves though ala TJ, Cook, McCauley, Greenway etc.
    Sharper was tied with the most picks on the team with 4.

    I don't question his skills, he's a ball-hawker just like Smoot was. Ball-hawking is what those two did best & what made them great players. They'd watch the QB & react.

    True, our system did not call for that type of play & they took that liberty away from them, thus taking away & limiting their skills of what they did best. It's not a matter of them not being talented or skilled, but rather them not fitting the system.

    You don't lead your team with picks & not be any good.

    I'm tired of watching our DB's letting the WR catch passes & then containing them for short yardage rather than tryong to knock the ball out. I want to see them be allowed to be more aggressive, knock some balls down, play more man on man, step in front of some passes & get more picks.

    The prevent defense I see them play isn't all it's cracked up to be. Our DB's were nickle & dimed to death last year & it cost us ball games. Pass rush wasn't the only reason we were the worst against the pass. Hand-cuffing our DB's was a part of that as well. Both Winfield & Sharper were outspoken about it. Those short yardage passes of 5-10 yards moved the chains for our opponents each time two of them were completed & they consistently moved the ball down field doing that.
    Very nice post Singer. I think (hopefully) the DBs will play more aggressive this year due to Allen creating pressure. IMO the reason they were playing off the WRs and in the zone was due to the lack of pass rush.

  3. #23
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    Now why don'y you list for me some game changers our other DB's had?
    Same game:

    New York Giants at 11:21

    1-10-NYG 20
    (11:21) 22-R.Droughns left guard to NYG 21 for 1 yard (51-B.Leber).

    2-9-NYG 21
    (10:39) 22-R.Droughns left end to NYG 21 for no gain (90-F.Evans, 93-K.Williams). PENALTY on NYG-66-D.Diehl, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 21 - No Play.

    2-19-NYG 11
    (10:15) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete short middle to 22-R.Droughns.

    3-19-NYG 11
    (10:08) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass deep middle intended for 17-P.Burress INTERCEPTED by 24-D.Smith at NYG 27. 24-D.Smith pushed ob at NYG 8 for 19 yards (76-C.Snee). Penalty on NYG-66-D.Diehl, Illegal Formation, declined.


    Minnesota Vikings at 09:58

    1-8-NYG 8
    (9:58) 29-C.Taylor left tackle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

    8-R.Longwell extra point is GOOD, Center-46-C.Loeffler, Holder-5-C.Kluwe.

    MIN 21

    NYG 7

    Plays: 1

    Possession: 0:09
    3-10-MIN 11 (13:57) 10-E.Manning pass short left intended for 80-J.Shockey INTERCEPTED by 24-D.Smith (51-B.Leber) at MIN 7. 24-D.Smith for 93 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
    Do those 2 plays mean Dwight Smith is a top safety in the league?

    =Z=
    Smith, just like Sharper, Winfield, and even Griffin, made some big plays for us last year. Such is why I have a hard time criticizing any of the defensive players from last year. The FO, and almost everyone else, considers Williams an upgrade over Smith. That is probably a correct assesment, but I am holding judgement.

    Sharper however has the skills to compete with any other S in the league, as well as leadership qualities, and veteran experience. There is honestly very little reason to hate on Sharper. When coverages were blown, it was usually Griffin or Smith. Pick any game and watch it and you'll see 42 a lot more than 24.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  4. #24
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    When I first saw this I was thinking that cannot be right, we aren't THAT good at safety. But after looking at the rest of the NFC I can see that we are at the top of the class.
    I LOVE Ken Hamlin in Dallas and think he is probably the best safety in the NFC with Sharper probably coming in second or third (behind Adrian Wilson). Also, I am a big fan of the Madieu pick up.
    I know there are a lot of arguments here over Sharper, but I think saying he is not one of the top safeties in the NFC is just flat out wrong.
    He is a ball hawk ... not nearly as bad at coverage as some on here paint him ... and offers unmeasurable leadership and experience on the field. Once the defense loosened up a little last year and let him do a little more of what he does best we started winning games and he started making plays.
    There is no reason to think he will not be great against this year and be an excellent mentor to the young rook.

  5. #25
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "marstc09" wrote:
    1. Minnesota Vikings

    Darren Sharper and Madieu Williams are strong playmakers. Williams adds sticky coverage skills. Michael Boulware provides experienced depth, and rookie Tyrell Johnson could get time in the nickel package.
    http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=412093
    I hope the love turns to wins ;D
    [size=12pt]
    Page 148.5 **Doleman 150.5 **Randle 137.5 **Allen 73+
    [/size]

  6. #26
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    from the FA to the draft, I believe we have shored up any problematic area's, depth, and brought in the players the COACHES want to fit into THEIR scheme.

    this team is being built to sustain years of championship runs. and we are starting to see this mold take shape. Do i think we have the best players in all positions.. well. maybe not THE BEST, but i have to give top 5 positions to most of them.

    as far as the safeties go.
    Sharper is a great player. and he will continue to play at a very high standard. Our draftee will come in to learn from 2 of the better safety positional players in the league, and be coached into his position by example, practice, and mentors. ok sharper is getting older. but that doesn't mean he's getting worse. he'll be having a star filled year now that we have a DE like Jared.


    for me. i wouldn't change our D fo any o ther in the NFL.

    DiGiTaL

    "We tried to stick with it, but there was a point where we were beating our head against a wall," Seattle Coach Mora talking about running at the Williams Wall

  7. #27
    singersp's Avatar
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    Now why don'y you list for me some game changers our other DB's had?
    Same game:

    New York Giants at 11:21

    1-10-NYG 20
    (11:21) 22-R.Droughns left guard to NYG 21 for 1 yard (51-B.Leber).

    2-9-NYG 21
    (10:39) 22-R.Droughns left end to NYG 21 for no gain (90-F.Evans, 93-K.Williams). PENALTY on NYG-66-D.Diehl, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 21 - No Play.

    2-19-NYG 11
    (10:15) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete short middle to 22-R.Droughns.

    3-19-NYG 11
    (10:08) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass deep middle intended for 17-P.Burress INTERCEPTED by 24-D.Smith at NYG 27. 24-D.Smith pushed ob at NYG 8 for 19 yards (76-C.Snee). Penalty on NYG-66-D.Diehl, Illegal Formation, declined.


    Minnesota Vikings at 09:58

    1-8-NYG 8
    (9:58) 29-C.Taylor left tackle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

    8-R.Longwell extra point is GOOD, Center-46-C.Loeffler, Holder-5-C.Kluwe.

    MIN 21

    NYG 7

    Plays: 1

    Possession: 0:09
    3-10-MIN 11 (13:57) 10-E.Manning pass short left intended for 80-J.Shockey INTERCEPTED by 24-D.Smith (51-B.Leber) at MIN 7. 24-D.Smith for 93 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
    Do those 2 plays mean Dwight Smith is a top safety in the league?

    =Z=
    You might be able to call his 1st interception a game changer, but it was Sharpers interception & TD that changed the game & got the ball rolling.

    We were already up 14-7 when Smith got his 1st pick.

    When Smith had his 2nd pick, we were already up 27-10. That hardly constitutes being deemed a game changer,

    Do those 2 plays mean Dwight Smith is a top safety in the league? Not necessarily. It doesn't necessarily mean that Sharper was either, but that was not the question,

    The question was that you posed was, "Name one game-changing play Sharper made last year", which was a direct response to V's statement that Sharper was huge for us last year. I answered that for you.

    Sharper & Smith stats were both nearly the same last year with Sharper having more tackles than Smith, yet you & Marrdro always rag on Sharper & praise Smith.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  8. #28
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "singersp" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "singersp" wrote:
    Now why don'y you list for me some game changers our other DB's had?
    Same game:

    New York Giants at 11:21

    1-10-NYG 20
    (11:21) 22-R.Droughns left guard to NYG 21 for 1 yard (51-B.Leber).

    2-9-NYG 21
    (10:39) 22-R.Droughns left end to NYG 21 for no gain (90-F.Evans, 93-K.Williams). PENALTY on NYG-66-D.Diehl, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 21 - No Play.

    2-19-NYG 11
    (10:15) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete short middle to 22-R.Droughns.

    3-19-NYG 11
    (10:08) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass deep middle intended for 17-P.Burress INTERCEPTED by 24-D.Smith at NYG 27. 24-D.Smith pushed ob at NYG 8 for 19 yards (76-C.Snee). Penalty on NYG-66-D.Diehl, Illegal Formation, declined.


    Minnesota Vikings at 09:58

    1-8-NYG 8
    (9:58) 29-C.Taylor left tackle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

    8-R.Longwell extra point is GOOD, Center-46-C.Loeffler, Holder-5-C.Kluwe.

    MIN 21

    NYG 7

    Plays: 1

    Possession: 0:09
    3-10-MIN 11 (13:57) 10-E.Manning pass short left intended for 80-J.Shockey INTERCEPTED by 24-D.Smith (51-B.Leber) at MIN 7. 24-D.Smith for 93 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
    Do those 2 plays mean Dwight Smith is a top safety in the league?

    =Z=
    You might be able to call his 1st interception a game changer, but it was Sharpers interception & TD that changed the game & got the ball rolling.

    We were already up 14-7 when Smith got his 1st pick.

    When Smith had his 2nd pick, we were already up 27-10. That hardly constitutes being deemed a game changer,

    Do those 2 plays mean Dwight Smith is a top safety in the league? Not necessarily. It doesn't necessarily mean that Sharper was either, but that was not the question,

    The question was that you posed was, "Name one game-changing play Sharper made last year", which was a direct response to V's statement that Sharper was huge for us last year. I answered that for you.

    Sharper & Smith stats were both nearly the same last year with Sharper having more tackles than Smith, yet you & Marrdro always rag on Sharper & praise Smith.
    Since this has now turned into a Sharper vs Smith thread let's look at it this way.
    Does anyone here think Smith is a complete Safety?
    The guy has no idea how to tackle.
    He made a few good plays for us last year but that doesn't make him a complete or a great safety.
    He is an decent safety with off the field issues.


    Now compare that to Sharper.
    This guy has been a pro bowl calibur Safety for several years now.
    He leads the league in INTs over the time he has played in the league.
    He has never had off the field issues that I am aware of.
    He is a good leader.
    He has been a consistent football player his entire career (unlike Smith).
    You cannot try to compare the two to make a point in this thread.
    Apples and oranges.

  9. #29
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "singersp" wrote:
    The question was that you posed was, "Name one game-changing play Sharper made last year", which was a direct response to V's statement that Sharper was huge for us last year. I answered that for you.

    Sharper & Smith stats were both nearly the same last year with Sharper having more tackles than Smith, yet you & Marrdro always rag on Sharper & praise Smith.
    Yes - I posed that question to V.
    And you, back in the mode of Zeus's personal fact-checker, jumped to Sharper's defense.
    I also asked (of Kevon) how many long TDs or blown coverages Sharper had.
    People seem to think that 4 interceptions and a TD means he's a stud.

    Now - to your last point, are you out of your mind?

    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=44559.msg772865#msg772865
    How is he possibly to blame for Dwight Smith letting Devin Hester run right by him?
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=44137.msg763992#msg763992
    Oh, right - it's the lack of a pass rush that made Darren Sharper into a ball-hog and Dwight Smith into a whiffer.
    http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=42784.msg731002#msg731002
    Smith was dropped for laughing on the sidelines in the GB blowout and barely playing in the last 2 games of the season.
    Hell - JAY CUTLER blocked him on an end-around in the Denver game - that should NOT happen!
    I have *NEVER* praised Dwight Smith.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  10. #30
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "midgensa" wrote:
    He is a ball hawk ... not nearly as bad at coverage as some on here paint him ... and offers unmeasurable leadership and experience on the field. Once the defense loosened up a little last year and let him do a little more of what he does best we started winning games and he started making plays.
    There is no reason to think he will not be great against this year and be an excellent mentor to the young rook.
    "Unmeasureable leadership"?

    Like when he QUIT on the field in the last game of the 2006 season against the Rams?
    That was some great leadership!

    And here I thought the Vikings started winning games when Purple Jesus got rolling.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

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