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  1. #11
    V-Unit's Avatar
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Nice read my friend.
    Thanks.

    However, I’ve said all along that Sharper is often overrated by members of the national media, and this ditty from the Sporting News is a perfect example of that.
    Funny, I've only seen a couple posters on here question Sharpers skills.




    I could have sworn that Cook picked up many more penalties than that, so I’m glad to hear that he kept his infractions to a minimum (my list of things to criticize about Cook just got a little shorter).
    Alot of people missed how Cooks play got significantly better as the year went on.
    I for one think him and Herrera will mainstays on the right side for alot of years to come.
    I don't question his skills. I question his motives for playing. I am undecided if he is a glory hound.
    I question his skills.
    And I will continue to question them.
    He's a ball-hawker in a system that does not call for that.


    =Z=
    LOL.
    Adequately articulated Z.


    The way I see it, Sharp is one of the last remaining pieces that needs to be replaced. Seems we might have that replacement on the roster this year.

    I hope he gets a little seasoning before he is thrown to the wolves though ala TJ, Cook, McCauley, Greenway etc.
    How does the type of player he is actually downgrade his skills? Sharper plays at a high level, and for all we know if he tried to play the system approach, he may curb his habits, which are good ones, and thus become worse. The only reason he needs to get replaced is because he is getting old. His skills have nothing to do with it. Honestly, Sharper was huge for us last year.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  2. #12
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    HEY
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    I actually agree with Vikings at # 1. I like the Cardinals also, but if it wasn't for the death of Sean Taylor, I think the Washington should have been the # 1. They still have Laron Landry who is going to be one of the best at his position.

  3. #13
    vikes2456's Avatar
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    I think people are going to miss Sharper a lot more than they think. Johnson should turn out to be a good player, but he won't be as good as Sharper is for a couple of years.

  4. #14
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Nice read my friend.
    Thanks.

    However, I’ve said all along that Sharper is often overrated by members of the national media, and this ditty from the Sporting News is a perfect example of that.
    Funny, I've only seen a couple posters on here question Sharpers skills.




    I could have sworn that Cook picked up many more penalties than that, so I’m glad to hear that he kept his infractions to a minimum (my list of things to criticize about Cook just got a little shorter).
    Alot of people missed how Cooks play got significantly better as the year went on.
    I for one think him and Herrera will mainstays on the right side for alot of years to come.
    I don't question his skills. I question his motives for playing. I am undecided if he is a glory hound.
    I question his skills.
    And I will continue to question them.
    He's a ball-hawker in a system that does not call for that.


    =Z=
    LOL.
    Adequately articulated Z.


    The way I see it, Sharp is one of the last remaining pieces that needs to be replaced. Seems we might have that replacement on the roster this year.

    I hope he gets a little seasoning before he is thrown to the wolves though ala TJ, Cook, McCauley, Greenway etc.
    How does the type of player he is actually downgrade his skills? Sharper plays at a high level, and for all we know if he tried to play the system approach, he may curb his habits, which are good ones, and thus become worse. The only reason he needs to get replaced is because he is getting old. His skills have nothing to do with it. Honestly, Sharper was huge for us last year.
    Name one game-changing play Sharper made last year.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

  5. #15
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Nice read my friend.
    Thanks.

    However, I’ve said all along that Sharper is often overrated by members of the national media, and this ditty from the Sporting News is a perfect example of that.
    Funny, I've only seen a couple posters on here question Sharpers skills.




    I could have sworn that Cook picked up many more penalties than that, so I’m glad to hear that he kept his infractions to a minimum (my list of things to criticize about Cook just got a little shorter).
    Alot of people missed how Cooks play got significantly better as the year went on.
    I for one think him and Herrera will mainstays on the right side for alot of years to come.
    I don't question his skills. I question his motives for playing. I am undecided if he is a glory hound.
    I question his skills.
    And I will continue to question them.
    He's a ball-hawker in a system that does not call for that.


    =Z=
    LOL.
    Adequately articulated Z.


    The way I see it, Sharp is one of the last remaining pieces that needs to be replaced. Seems we might have that replacement on the roster this year.

    I hope he gets a little seasoning before he is thrown to the wolves though ala TJ, Cook, McCauley, Greenway etc.
    How does the type of player he is actually downgrade his skills? Sharper plays at a high level, and for all we know if he tried to play the system approach, he may curb his habits, which are good ones, and thus become worse. The only reason he needs to get replaced is because he is getting old. His skills have nothing to do with it. Honestly, Sharper was huge for us last year.
    Not sure what your point is. Ignoring the fact that he doesn't fit the system.......

    His age is starting to show, is the primary reason he needs to go.
    He was late on alot of plays last year.
    Heck, he even got beat by TE's last year.

    And we all know his stance on that right?

    Long story short, the front office has slowly replaced the guys that don't quite fit the scheme or aren't producing anymore.
    Again, he is one of the last holdouts that need to go for someone better.
    Again, I believe that cat was drafted this year.
    ;D

    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  6. #16
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=45000.msg780607#msg780607 date=1211123821]
    Nice read my friend.
    Thanks.

    However, I’ve said all along that Sharper is often overrated by members of the national media, and this ditty from the Sporting News is a perfect example of that.
    Funny, I've only seen a couple posters on here question Sharpers skills.




    I could have sworn that Cook picked up many more penalties than that, so I’m glad to hear that he kept his infractions to a minimum (my list of things to criticize about Cook just got a little shorter).
    Alot of people missed how Cooks play got significantly better as the year went on.
    I for one think him and Herrera will mainstays on the right side for alot of years to come.
    I don't question his skills. I question his motives for playing. I am undecided if he is a glory hound.
    I question his skills.
    And I will continue to question them.
    He's a ball-hawker in a system that does not call for that.


    =Z=
    LOL.
    Adequately articulated Z.


    The way I see it, Sharp is one of the last remaining pieces that needs to be replaced. Seems we might have that replacement on the roster this year.

    I hope he gets a little seasoning before he is thrown to the wolves though ala TJ, Cook, McCauley, Greenway etc.
    How does the type of player he is actually downgrade his skills? Sharper plays at a high level, and for all we know if he tried to play the system approach, he may curb his habits, which are good ones, and thus become worse. The only reason he needs to get replaced is because he is getting old. His skills have nothing to do with it. Honestly, Sharper was huge for us last year.
    Not sure what your point is. Ignoring the fact that he doesn't fit the system.......

    His age is starting to show, is the primary reason he needs to go.
    He was late on alot of plays last year.
    Heck, he even got beat by TE's last year.

    And we all know his stance on that right?

    Long story short, the front office has slowly replaced the guys that don't quite fit the scheme or aren't producing anymore.
    Again, he is one of the last holdouts that need to go for someone better.
    Again, I believe that cat was drafted this year.

    ;D


    [/quote]

    You hit the nail on the ehad there Marrdro,
    IMO it isn't Sharper's skills.
    He definately has skills and always has.
    The problem is the system.
    He ahs never worked in this type of cover scheme before last year.
    It wasn't until the middle of the season last year where he was givn some freedom to do what he does best.

    He had 4 INTs last year.
    2 were in the 2nd week against Detroit.
    The other two came later in the year.
    However when you look at his pass defenses, 5 out of 8 came later in the season after he was given opportunities to free lance and do what he does best.
    2 out of the 3 early ones were against Detroit as well.

    People can say what they want about him but he is still a premier safety in the NFL.
    Are others better than him?
    Yes.
    But that doesn't take away from his talents.
    It's not always as easy as it seems to adjust to a different style of defense right away especially when someone has been used to a certain style their entire lives.

  7. #17
    V-Unit's Avatar
    V-Unit is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    [quote author=marstc09 link=topic=45000.msg780613#msg780613 date=1211124344]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=45000.msg780607#msg780607 date=1211123821]
    Nice read my friend.
    Thanks.

    However, I’ve said all along that Sharper is often overrated by members of the national media, and this ditty from the Sporting News is a perfect example of that.
    Funny, I've only seen a couple posters on here question Sharpers skills.




    I could have sworn that Cook picked up many more penalties than that, so I’m glad to hear that he kept his infractions to a minimum (my list of things to criticize about Cook just got a little shorter).
    Alot of people missed how Cooks play got significantly better as the year went on.
    I for one think him and Herrera will mainstays on the right side for alot of years to come.
    I don't question his skills. I question his motives for playing. I am undecided if he is a glory hound.
    I question his skills.
    And I will continue to question them.
    He's a ball-hawker in a system that does not call for that.


    =Z=
    LOL.
    Adequately articulated Z.


    The way I see it, Sharp is one of the last remaining pieces that needs to be replaced. Seems we might have that replacement on the roster this year.

    I hope he gets a little seasoning before he is thrown to the wolves though ala TJ, Cook, McCauley, Greenway etc.
    How does the type of player he is actually downgrade his skills? Sharper plays at a high level, and for all we know if he tried to play the system approach, he may curb his habits, which are good ones, and thus become worse. The only reason he needs to get replaced is because he is getting old. His skills have nothing to do with it. Honestly, Sharper was huge for us last year.
    Not sure what your point is. Ignoring the fact that he doesn't fit the system.......

    His age is starting to show, is the primary reason he needs to go.
    He was late on alot of plays last year.
    Heck, he even got beat by TE's last year.

    And we all know his stance on that right?

    Long story short, the front office has slowly replaced the guys that don't quite fit the scheme or aren't producing anymore.
    Again, he is one of the last holdouts that need to go for someone better.
    Again, I believe that cat was drafted this year.

    ;D


    [/quote]

    You hit the nail on the ehad there Marrdro,
    IMO it isn't Sharper's skills.
    He definately has skills and always has.
    The problem is the system.
    He ahs never worked in this type of cover scheme before last year.
    It wasn't until the middle of the season last year where he was givn some freedom to do what he does best.

    He had 4 INTs last year.
    2 were in the 2nd week against Detroit.
    The other two came later in the year.
    However when you look at his pass defenses, 5 out of 8 came later in the season after he was given opportunities to free lance and do what he does best.
    2 out of the 3 early ones were against Detroit as well.

    People can say what they want about him but he is still a premier safety in the NFL.
    Are others better than him?
    Yes.
    But that doesn't take away from his talents.
    It's not always as easy as it seems to adjust to a different style of defense right away especially when someone has been used to a certain style their entire lives.
    [/quote]

    I think we are all very close to agreement here. He is a great safety and at his best when he can freelance. The only true knock on him is his age. I refuse to blame him for not fitting the system, mainly because that is not his choice, and also because I think that age is a much bigger issue. The guy is 33 and hasn't missed a game in 2 years. He hasn't missed more than 3 games in a season in his entire career. After his rookie season, he has started an average of 15 games per season, with the least being 13. It is truly amazing that he has played at such a high level for so long, and I don't see a reason for this to change.

    No he does not fit the system, but he is still very effective in it. It's amazing because we argue about serious problems with the offense, yet we nitpick about the defense. I'm one of the few on this, but I really have trouble ciriticizing any of our defensive players. They form a unit that gave us several chances to win all but one game last year. That is a bit off-topic, but whatever.

    Also, I'm not so sure that Tyrell Johnson is a better fit for the cover 2 than Sharper is. He seemed to be of the freelancing, run-supporting, playmaking type from all the film I watched. He has the advantage of the cover 2 being the first NFL system he has ever played in, so maybe he will learn coverage duties earlier in his career, but there is still a definite learning curve. I would be very surprised if the defense does not miss Sharper when he calls it quits.
    "I hate when threads are destroyed by facts and logic."
    - Prophet


    Thanks Josdin!

  8. #18
    Marrdro's Avatar
    Marrdro is offline Beware My Spreadsheet, Bitches!
    Join Date
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "V" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    [quote author=Zeus link=topic=45000.msg780621#msg780621 date=1211124865]
    [quote author=marstc09 link=topic=45000.msg780613#msg780613 date=1211124344]
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=45000.msg780607#msg780607 date=1211123821]
    Nice read my friend.
    Thanks.

    However, I’ve said all along that Sharper is often overrated by members of the national media, and this ditty from the Sporting News is a perfect example of that.
    Funny, I've only seen a couple posters on here question Sharpers skills.




    I could have sworn that Cook picked up many more penalties than that, so I’m glad to hear that he kept his infractions to a minimum (my list of things to criticize about Cook just got a little shorter).
    Alot of people missed how Cooks play got significantly better as the year went on.
    I for one think him and Herrera will mainstays on the right side for alot of years to come.
    I don't question his skills. I question his motives for playing. I am undecided if he is a glory hound.
    I question his skills.
    And I will continue to question them.
    He's a ball-hawker in a system that does not call for that.


    =Z=
    LOL.
    Adequately articulated Z.


    The way I see it, Sharp is one of the last remaining pieces that needs to be replaced. Seems we might have that replacement on the roster this year.

    I hope he gets a little seasoning before he is thrown to the wolves though ala TJ, Cook, McCauley, Greenway etc.
    How does the type of player he is actually downgrade his skills? Sharper plays at a high level, and for all we know if he tried to play the system approach, he may curb his habits, which are good ones, and thus become worse. The only reason he needs to get replaced is because he is getting old. His skills have nothing to do with it. Honestly, Sharper was huge for us last year.
    Not sure what your point is. Ignoring the fact that he doesn't fit the system.......

    His age is starting to show, is the primary reason he needs to go.
    He was late on alot of plays last year.
    Heck, he even got beat by TE's last year.

    And we all know his stance on that right?

    Long story short, the front office has slowly replaced the guys that don't quite fit the scheme or aren't producing anymore.
    Again, he is one of the last holdouts that need to go for someone better.
    Again, I believe that cat was drafted this year.

    ;D


    [/quote]

    You hit the nail on the ehad there Marrdro,
    IMO it isn't Sharper's skills.
    He definately has skills and always has.
    The problem is the system.
    He ahs never worked in this type of cover scheme before last year.
    It wasn't until the middle of the season last year where he was givn some freedom to do what he does best.

    He had 4 INTs last year.
    2 were in the 2nd week against Detroit.
    The other two came later in the year.
    However when you look at his pass defenses, 5 out of 8 came later in the season after he was given opportunities to free lance and do what he does best.
    2 out of the 3 early ones were against Detroit as well.

    People can say what they want about him but he is still a premier safety in the NFL.
    Are others better than him?
    Yes.
    But that doesn't take away from his talents.
    It's not always as easy as it seems to adjust to a different style of defense right away especially when someone has been used to a certain style their entire lives.
    [/quote]

    I think we are all very close to agreement here. He is a great safety and at his best when he can freelance. The only true knock on him is his age. I refuse to blame him for not fitting the system, mainly because that is not his choice, and also because I think that age is a much bigger issue. The guy is 33 and hasn't missed a game in 2 years. He hasn't missed more than 3 games in a season in his entire career. After his rookie season, he has started an average of 15 games per season, with the least being 13. It is truly amazing that he has played at such a high level for so long, and I don't see a reason for this to change.

    No he does not fit the system, but he is still very effective in it. It's amazing because we argue about serious problems with the offense, yet we nitpick about the defense. I'm one of the few on this, but I really have trouble ciriticizing any of our defensive players. They form a unit that gave us several chances to win all but one game last year. That is a bit off-topic, but whatever.

    Also, I'm not so sure that Tyrell Johnson is a better fit for the cover 2 than Sharper is. He seemed to be of the freelancing, run-supporting, playmaking type from all the film I watched. He has the advantage of the cover 2 being the first NFL system he has ever played in, so maybe he will learn coverage duties earlier in his career, but there is still a definite learning curve. I would be very surprised if the defense does not miss Sharper when he calls it quits.
    [/quote]
    Two very good posts right there.

    V, it depends on what book/scouting report/magazine you read.
    Some say he is a perfect fit for a Cover 2 and others say he is better up against the line.

    I tend to believe the ones who say he fits the scheme and use the fact our staff selected him as proof. As you know, I believe this staff selects players that fit the scheme rather than selecting a talented guy that doesn't.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #19
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "Zeus" wrote:
    "V" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    [quote author=Marrdro link=topic=45000.msg780607#msg780607 date=1211123821]
    Nice read my friend.
    Thanks.

    However, I’ve said all along that Sharper is often overrated by members of the national media, and this ditty from the Sporting News is a perfect example of that.
    Funny, I've only seen a couple posters on here question Sharpers skills.



    I could have sworn that Cook picked up many more penalties than that, so I’m glad to hear that he kept his infractions to a minimum (my list of things to criticize about Cook just got a little shorter).
    Alot of people missed how Cooks play got significantly better as the year went on.
    I for one think him and Herrera will mainstays on the right side for alot of years to come.
    I don't question his skills. I question his motives for playing. I am undecided if he is a glory hound.
    I question his skills.
    And I will continue to question them.
    He's a ball-hawker in a system that does not call for that.


    =Z=
    LOL.
    Adequately articulated Z.


    The way I see it, Sharp is one of the last remaining pieces that needs to be replaced. Seems we might have that replacement on the roster this year.

    I hope he gets a little seasoning before he is thrown to the wolves though ala TJ, Cook, McCauley, Greenway etc.
    How does the type of player he is actually downgrade his skills? Sharper plays at a high level, and for all we know if he tried to play the system approach, he may curb his habits, which are good ones, and thus become worse. The only reason he needs to get replaced is because he is getting old. His skills have nothing to do with it. Honestly, Sharper was huge for us last year.
    Name one game-changing play Sharper made last year.

    =Z=
    [/quote]

    The pick in the 1st quarter against the Giants to put the Vikings up 14-7

    3:26) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short middle intended for 80-J.Shockey INTERCEPTED by 42-D.Sharper at NYG 20. 42-D.Sharper for 20 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

    New York Giants at 03:15
    http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29364&displayPage=tab_play_by_p lay&season=2007&week=REG12&override=true

    Now why don'y you list for me some game changers our other DB's had?

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

  10. #20
    singersp's Avatar
    singersp is offline PPO Newshound
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    Re: NFC team reports: focus on safeties (rankings)

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "marstc09" wrote:
    "Marrdro" wrote:
    Nice read my friend.
    Thanks.

    However, I’ve said all along that Sharper is often overrated by members of the national media, and this ditty from the Sporting News is a perfect example of that.
    Funny, I've only seen a couple posters on here question Sharpers skills.



    I could have sworn that Cook picked up many more penalties than that, so I’m glad to hear that he kept his infractions to a minimum (my list of things to criticize about Cook just got a little shorter).
    Alot of people missed how Cooks play got significantly better as the year went on.
    I for one think him and Herrera will mainstays on the right side for alot of years to come.
    I don't question his skills. I question his motives for playing. I am undecided if he is a glory hound.
    I question his skills.
    And I will continue to question them.
    He's a ball-hawker in a system that does not call for that.


    =Z=
    LOL.
    Adequately articulated Z.


    The way I see it, Sharp is one of the last remaining pieces that needs to be replaced. Seems we might have that replacement on the roster this year.

    I hope he gets a little seasoning before he is thrown to the wolves though ala TJ, Cook, McCauley, Greenway etc.
    Sharper was tied with the most picks on the team with 4.

    I don't question his skills, he's a ball-hawker just like Smoot was. Ball-hawking is what those two did best & what made them great players. They'd watch the QB & react.

    True, our system did not call for that type of play & they took that liberty away from them, thus taking away & limiting their skills of what they did best. It's not a matter of them not being talented or skilled, but rather them not fitting the system.

    You don't lead your team with picks & not be any good.

    I'm tired of watching our DB's letting the WR catch passes & then containing them for short yardage rather than tryong to knock the ball out. I want to see them be allowed to be more aggressive, knock some balls down, play more man on man, step in front of some passes & get more picks.

    The prevent defense I see them play isn't all it's cracked up to be. Our DB's were nickle & dimed to death last year & it cost us ball games. Pass rush wasn't the only reason we were the worst against the pass. Hand-cuffing our DB's was a part of that as well. Both Winfield & Sharper were outspoken about it. Those short yardage passes of 5-10 yards moved the chains for our opponents each time two of them were completed & they consistently moved the ball down field doing that.

    "If at first you don't succeed, parachuting is not for you"

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