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  1. #41
    Mr Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Move over, AP, make room for Chris Johnson

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    All he can do is break the big one.

    Not that that is not impressive, he scored his first touchdown of under [size=20pt]50[/size] yards this week.


    When he can sustain a drive to run out the clock I'll be impressed, until then he's just really fast with a good offensive line.
    I believe that was under 15, not 50, thats at least what I heard.
    Nope. It's 50, I had to look it up after I heard that.

    Chris Johnson has only scored touchdowns in 3 games, 688 of his yards have come in 4 games, and most of those big games more than half of his yardage came on less than 2 runs.

    108 of those yards came in the second half of their 59-0 loss to New England, and even then 48 of those came on one run(128 on the game, it must be tough running when you're down by 45 in the second half).

    Against San Francisco 81 of his 135 yards came on one run. Against Jacksonville 141 of his 228 came on 2 runs... you get my point.

    Every one of his TD highlights on NFL.com's video section is against 7 man fronts, and he goes basically untouched... he sure gets there fast though.


    Peterson has 3 more touchdowns, more consistent week to week numbers, more receiving yards, and has only fumbled one more time. When AP breaks a 50+ yard run, chances are he has a 150+ yard week.

    There's no doubt Adrian Peterson is a better running back. Don't let the yardage fool you. All Johnson has on him is speed, and it's not like Peterson is slow, guy ran a sub 4.4 himself.
    While that all may be true let's not kid ourselves either.
    AP has a lot of those games where he gets 1 or 2 yards consistently and because he breaks a run he'll get his 100.
    It happens.
    I will not dispute the fact that AP is a better running back than CJ.
    However, if someone wants to argue that CJ is better than AP I wouldn't argue that either.
    Two different scenarios.
    Two different teams.
    AP has the better reputation to this point but Johnson has been a platoon back until this year.
    Before we make bold assessments let's wait and see what happens for the rest of the season.
    I will say this.
    I'd rather have AP because I know what he gives a team.
    People love to play with him.
    But I cannot say AP is "without a doubt" better than CJ.
    There are way too many variables.
    I will say AP has the better reputation and is probably more feared.
    However the more CJ gets the ball I have a feeling more opponents will fear him too.
    The difference is, Peterson will go something like 4,2,3,0,3,3,5,4,16,0,3,2,7,65.
    And Johnson's line will look like binary for most of the game with a 91 and 58 thrown in there somewhere.

    If you compare their abilities, ignoring stats, Peterson is the superior player, no doubt about it.

  2. #42
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Move over, AP, make room for Chris Johnson

    "Mr" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    All he can do is break the big one.

    Not that that is not impressive, he scored his first touchdown of under [size=20pt]50[/size] yards this week.


    When he can sustain a drive to run out the clock I'll be impressed, until then he's just really fast with a good offensive line.
    I believe that was under 15, not 50, thats at least what I heard.
    Nope. It's 50, I had to look it up after I heard that.

    Chris Johnson has only scored touchdowns in 3 games, 688 of his yards have come in 4 games, and most of those big games more than half of his yardage came on less than 2 runs.

    108 of those yards came in the second half of their 59-0 loss to New England, and even then 48 of those came on one run(128 on the game, it must be tough running when you're down by 45 in the second half).

    Against San Francisco 81 of his 135 yards came on one run. Against Jacksonville 141 of his 228 came on 2 runs... you get my point.

    Every one of his TD highlights on NFL.com's video section is against 7 man fronts, and he goes basically untouched... he sure gets there fast though.


    Peterson has 3 more touchdowns, more consistent week to week numbers, more receiving yards, and has only fumbled one more time. When AP breaks a 50+ yard run, chances are he has a 150+ yard week.

    There's no doubt Adrian Peterson is a better running back. Don't let the yardage fool you. All Johnson has on him is speed, and it's not like Peterson is slow, guy ran a sub 4.4 himself.
    While that all may be true let's not kid ourselves either.
    AP has a lot of those games where he gets 1 or 2 yards consistently and because he breaks a run he'll get his 100.
    It happens.
    I will not dispute the fact that AP is a better running back than CJ.
    However, if someone wants to argue that CJ is better than AP I wouldn't argue that either.
    Two different scenarios.
    Two different teams.
    AP has the better reputation to this point but Johnson has been a platoon back until this year.
    Before we make bold assessments let's wait and see what happens for the rest of the season.
    I will say this.
    I'd rather have AP because I know what he gives a team.
    People love to play with him.
    But I cannot say AP is "without a doubt" better than CJ.
    There are way too many variables.
    I will say AP has the better reputation and is probably more feared.
    However the more CJ gets the ball I have a feeling more opponents will fear him too.
    The difference is, Peterson will go something like 4,2,3,0,3,3,5,4,16,0,3,2,7,65.
    And Johnson's line will look like binary for most of the game with a 91 and 58 thrown in there somewhere.

    If you compare their abilities, ignoring stats, Peterson is the superior player, no doubt about it.
    But where is the difference then?
    The AP numbers you posted is exactly what you were saying CJ does.
    He's also run for a 91 yard TD.
    I don't think AP has ever had a run that long yet.


    As you probably know I am not big on stats.
    They can be useful for analysis over a period of time so I take them with a grain of salt.
    Here when we are comparing two RBs on two different teams in two different conferences it is very difficult to get a fair assessment.
    I believe AP has the much better reputation but again, CJ has not had a full season being the main guy.
    He still has a lot to prove but we can't ignore the fact CJ is an explosive runner that can take it to the house anytime he touches the ball.
    Personally I would rather have a 7-1 record without the rushing title than a 2-6 record with a rushing title.
    But it doesn't say who is better nor does it say who has better vision, who is stronger and who is more elusive as I was debating before.


    Is AP a better RB?
    Right now I believe he is.
    However, CJ is quickly proving to be a great back as well and as much as you and I and everyone else on PPO loves AP it doesn't mean he is "without a doubt" better than CJ.
    If there were no doubts articles the one written wouldn't be written.

  3. #43
    gagarr's Avatar
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    Re: Move over, AP, make room for Chris Johnson

    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "ejmat" wrote:
    "Mr" wrote:
    "i_bleed_purple" wrote:
    [quote author=Mr Anderson link=topic=54104.msg1015678#msg1015678 date=1257881767]
    All he can do is break the big one.

    Not that that is not impressive, he scored his first touchdown of under [size=20pt]50[/size] yards this week.


    When he can sustain a drive to run out the clock I'll be impressed, until then he's just really fast with a good offensive line.
    I believe that was under 15, not 50, thats at least what I heard.
    Nope. It's 50, I had to look it up after I heard that.

    Chris Johnson has only scored touchdowns in 3 games, 688 of his yards have come in 4 games, and most of those big games more than half of his yardage came on less than 2 runs.

    108 of those yards came in the second half of their 59-0 loss to New England, and even then 48 of those came on one run(128 on the game, it must be tough running when you're down by 45 in the second half).

    Against San Francisco 81 of his 135 yards came on one run. Against Jacksonville 141 of his 228 came on 2 runs... you get my point.

    Every one of his TD highlights on NFL.com's video section is against 7 man fronts, and he goes basically untouched... he sure gets there fast though.


    Peterson has 3 more touchdowns, more consistent week to week numbers, more receiving yards, and has only fumbled one more time. When AP breaks a 50+ yard run, chances are he has a 150+ yard week.

    There's no doubt Adrian Peterson is a better running back. Don't let the yardage fool you. All Johnson has on him is speed, and it's not like Peterson is slow, guy ran a sub 4.4 himself.
    While that all may be true let's not kid ourselves either.
    AP has a lot of those games where he gets 1 or 2 yards consistently and because he breaks a run he'll get his 100.
    It happens.
    I will not dispute the fact that AP is a better running back than CJ.
    However, if someone wants to argue that CJ is better than AP I wouldn't argue that either.
    Two different scenarios.
    Two different teams.
    AP has the better reputation to this point but Johnson has been a platoon back until this year.
    Before we make bold assessments let's wait and see what happens for the rest of the season.
    I will say this.
    I'd rather have AP because I know what he gives a team.
    People love to play with him.
    But I cannot say AP is "without a doubt" better than CJ.
    There are way too many variables.
    I will say AP has the better reputation and is probably more feared.
    However the more CJ gets the ball I have a feeling more opponents will fear him too.
    The difference is, Peterson will go something like 4,2,3,0,3,3,5,4,16,0,3,2,7,65.
    And Johnson's line will look like binary for most of the game with a 91 and 58 thrown in there somewhere.

    If you compare their abilities, ignoring stats, Peterson is the superior player, no doubt about it.
    But where is the difference then?
    The AP numbers you posted is exactly what you were saying CJ does.
    He's also run for a 91 yard TD.
    I don't think AP has ever had a run that long yet.


    As you probably know I am not big on stats.
    They can be useful for analysis over a period of time so I take them with a grain of salt.
    Here when we are comparing two RBs on two different teams in two different conferences it is very difficult to get a fair assessment.
    I believe AP has the much better reputation but again, CJ has not had a full season being the main guy.
    He still has a lot to prove but we can't ignore the fact CJ is an explosive runner that can take it to the house anytime he touches the ball.
    Personally I would rather have a 7-1 record without the rushing title than a 2-6 record with a rushing title.
    But it doesn't say who is better nor does it say who has better vision, who is stronger and who is more elusive as I was debating before.


    Is AP a better RB?
    Right now I believe he is.
    However, CJ is quickly proving to be a great back as well and as much as you and I and everyone else on PPO loves AP it doesn't mean he is "without a doubt" better than CJ.
    If there were no doubts articles the one written wouldn't be written.
    [/quote]

    The big difference between AD (6-1 217) and CJ (5-11 200) is CT (5-11 213) and LW (6-1 235).
    CT is a bit poorer version of AD (once AD improves his blocking a bit more), whereas CJ and LW are night and day in what they can do and both get time to do it.

    LW has carried the ball 56 times for 198yd 3.7avg.
    CT 45 for 123yd 2.7avg and these aren't the gritty 3rd and longs which go to AD.

    LW's complements CJ, allowing CJ to be fresher and not have to grit the short stuff.
    [size=12pt]
    Page 148.5 **Doleman 150.5 **Randle 137.5 **Allen 73+
    [/size]

  4. #44
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    Re: Move over, AP, make room for Chris Johnson

    Answer to the question if CJ is surpassing AD as the dominant RB...

    Tell a Titans fan that CJ has been traded for AD.
    The majority will respond with and who else, or just be in utter shock of getting AD.
    A select few may be upset about losing CJ to AD, very very select few.

    Tell a Vikings fan that AD has been traded for CJ.
    The majority will slit your throat, ask how many first rounders we got in return, and then enter a state of shock perhaps enter a coma or cardiac arrest.
    A select few may say great, Brett Favre can throw more.
    Again very very select few.
    "There are 3 things that sell in America:
    Violence, sex, and drugs.
    The only way you are going to make this game more appealing to the public than it was before is if there are on field orgies at halftime and the domes become massive opium dens."

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  5. #45
    Odin VAVikefan is offline Pro-Bowler
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    Re: Move over, AP, make room for Chris Johnson

    The Vikings and Titans' seasons couldn't be much more opposite, either, which would have to be taken into account alongside any stats.

    Tennessee has been playing from WAY behind in a number of games, for large portions of game-clock time. Win or lose, all of our games have required relatively balanced pass and run offense through all 4 quarters, whereas Tenessee has been playing a lot of catch-up. I'm sure if someone were retentive enough to spend the time to analyze each game situation for Tennessee's O, they could probably demonstrate that CJ is getting a fair amount of the big gains on softer Defensive formations that are mainly concerned with big passing plays.
    Or whatever; there are too many variables in play to make any bold statements either way.

    Anybody else suspect that AD has been nursing a nagging injury since about Week 2? He just doesn't seem to have his trademark constant explosiveness of late...
    NMA -- www.newmodelarmy.org

  6. #46
    Vikes's Avatar
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    Re: Move over, AP, make room for Chris Johnson

    "Odin" wrote:
    The Vikings and Titans' seasons couldn't be much more opposite, either, which would have to be taken into account alongside any stats.

    Tennessee has been playing from WAY behind in a number of games, for large portions of game-clock time. Win or lose, all of our games have required relatively balanced pass and run offense through all 4 quarters, whereas Tenessee has been playing a lot of catch-up. I'm sure if someone were retentive enough to spend the time to analyze each game situation for Tennessee's O, they could probably demonstrate that CJ is getting a fair amount of the big gains on softer Defensive formations that are mainly concerned with big passing plays.
    Or whatever; there are too many variables in play to make any bold statements either way.

    Anybody else suspect that AD has been nursing a nagging injury since about Week 2? He just doesn't seem to have his trademark constant explosiveness of late...
    Bingo!!!! Look at the records plus we need AD for our playoff run.
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  7. #47
    ejmat is offline Jersey Retired
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    Re: Move over, AP, make room for Chris Johnson

    "oaklandzoo24" wrote:
    Answer to the question if CJ is surpassing AD as the dominant RB...

    Tell a Titans fan that CJ has been traded for AD.
    The majority will respond with and who else, or just be in utter shock of getting AD.
    A select few may be upset about losing CJ to AD, very very select few.

    Tell a Vikings fan that AD has been traded for CJ.
    The majority will slit your throat, ask how many first rounders we got in return, and then enter a state of shock perhaps enter a coma or cardiac arrest.
    A select few may say great, Brett Favre can throw more.
    Again very very select few.
    Again at this point it is only because of publicity and recognition.
    CJ hasn't had the chance to prove himself until now.
    AP has.
    Also, TN fans don't always see the flaws of AP as you or I would see since we watch every week.
    Just like we wouldn't see the flaws of CJ if there are any.


    Personally I wouldn't want to trade AP whether he is better or not.
    I like his team attitude and he is a good, smart, young guy.
    To me that is more important than having someone that may or not be a better player.
    I think AP is better than CJ but even if I didn't I would want to keep AP.

  8. #48
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Move over, AP, make room for Chris Johnson

    "Zeus" wrote:
    I will admit, I knew I was throwing a log onto the fire when I posted it.
    But, gol 'darnit, 6.66 yards/carry is insane.

    And, with the pooh at QB that the Titans have going this year, Johnson is facing as many, if not more, 8-in-the-box fronts as AD.

    [size=10pt]Why does appreciating your own preclude appreciating others?[/size]

    =Z=
    Sometimes you pull one out of your ass my friend.........
    This is one of them.
    Excellent post my friend.
    Excellent indeed.

    Even though I've been having fun (throwing the log on the fire) with things like the Tahi and ROY threads, the amount of Purple being drunk on this site of late, does get a bit old at times.

    Again, top shelf my friend.
    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  9. #49
    Marrdro's Avatar
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    Re: Move over, AP, make room for Chris Johnson

    "BBQ" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    "HEY" wrote:
    You're kidding right? You must be. Nobody's better than Adrian Peterson.
    Stop looking at the numbers and ask the defenders instead. The defenders are not focusing on Chris Johnson as much as they're focusing on Adrian Peterson. That's pretty incredible considering that Adrian has a Hall of Famer candidate behind center, while Chris has a bust playing QB.
    Any actual proof that defenders are not focusing on Chris Johnson as much as they're focusing on AD?

    =Z=
    And that, My Farvish Friend, is the problem with statistical analysis in football.
    You can't measure how much defenses focus on him.
    Some good discussion points in those posts, however, I have one quick question.....

    How do we know what focus defenses put on any player, even AD.

    My guess, alot of attention is put on the best players on each team.
    In the case of the Titans (were they only have one threat) the focus could be knecked down a bit more than it could for a team as loaded as the Vikes who have multiple weapons.

    Don't get me wrong, I bet most of the teams D-coords do put alot of thier efforts at stopping AD, but to think they don't also worry about BB, PH, Shanc, El Syd etc. doesn't quite ring with the discussion that that type of focus isn't a bit more for CJ and the Titans high scoring offense with VY at QB.

    Many many thanks to my talented friend Jos for the new Sig.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/josdin00/Vikings/Marrdro_sig.jpg

  10. #50
    Zeus's Avatar
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    Re: Move over, AP, make room for Chris Johnson

    "Marrdro" wrote:
    "Zeus" wrote:
    I will admit, I knew I was throwing a log onto the fire when I posted it.
    But, gol 'darnit, 6.66 yards/carry is insane.

    And, with the pooh at QB that the Titans have going this year, Johnson is facing as many, if not more, 8-in-the-box fronts as AD.

    [size=10pt]Why does appreciating your own preclude appreciating others?[/size]
    Sometimes you pull one out of your ass my friend.........
    This is one of them.
    Excellent post my friend.
    Excellent indeed.

    Even though I've been having fun (throwing the log on the fire) with things like the Tahi and ROY threads, the amount of Purple being drunk on this site of late, does get a bit old at times.

    Again, top shelf my friend.
    How did this affect my standing on the 'ol spreadsheet?
    I'm dying to know.

    =Z=

    Thanks to Josdin for the awesome sig!

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